When are you going again? I’ll probably drop by. Friday maybe? Shit, players at Pacific are a whole different level. You guys are fucking aggressive. I usually play at York, and the players there are nowhere close to that level, it’s pretty much a joke. Looks like I’ll have to come there more often and adjust myself. I’ll look forward to a match…
Damn you speak truth! I started reading this thread and I wanted to throw up reading some of the shit I am reading ryt now, do you guys just talk 3rd strike and watch vids or u do play the dame game?
I like the guy talking about chun is weak cuz he can parry her super when she trys and chip lmao made my day
My point was if key players know the match vs. Chun Li so well that they even learn to do super hard and super risky shit like parry SAII for the small reward of preventing chip damage (that is only important in rare situations where you’re almost dead), it just shows their experience against her.
I know that in an ideal world, a tier list should be about risk vs. reward and objective shit but in the real world, you are going to be swayed by who you see winning. If people in Japan are just so used to fighting Chun Li that they know her like the back of their hand, it is no wonder she wins less now and thus is ‘percieved’ as less powerful. You guys can talk all you want about how tier lists are objective, but if say a TK level Q played at your arcade, he would probably alter your perceptions a bit as to the strength of the character in relation to others.
My point is that these tier lists are changing becuase of perceptions and becuase they are subjective in the first place, not really because ground breaking strategies are being discovered about these characters after seven years of competitive play. As that’s the case, that just shows the subjective nature of these things in the first place.
And my point is that you should shut up.
I was trying to bring up Pyrolee’s recent declaration that Makoto is now the 2nd best character in Japan, seems like she just keeps rising and rising. However, I mentioned a combo he cited, and since I did that a bunch of assholes shat on my post. So I deleted it.
I have always disagreed with people who said Makoto wasn’t top tier or just couldn’t be tiered. Her randomness is her best attribute, it’s what gives her the insane rushdown. The normal mixup you see from someone like chun is high/low/throw, but in Makoto’s case it’s high/low/throw/command throw. Last time I checked, 25% mixups were good.
With someone like Urien, you can get past their gimmick. It took a long time, but people now parry out of unblockables. The learning curve for that was very high, but it happened. The difference is that with someone like Yun, Chun, or Ken, even if you know every aspect of their gimmick, you can’t get away from it. You see the videos with someone like K.O or Pyrolee, and when they activate Genei-Jin, it’s GUARANTEED damage on virtually every bar. Same with Chun-li and someone like Nuki. Once they get meter, you might as well just let them hit you so you don’t have to be scared of it any more.
Makoto has the superior mixups because her command grab can either lead to a 100% stun combo (back to the corner) or to a combo with FAT damage and stun (Fierce XX EX Hayate), and that’s if she decides to grab you. You might eat low short xx hayate, low short xx EX overhead (whatever the hell it’s called), or just a regular throw. The mixups are so good and so constant that you’re left totally exasperated trying to guess all the time. I think a psychological factor plays into it where constantly being forced to guess all the time begins to eat away at your confidence. Makoto is scary, and it’s not an empty threat. Behind every mixup is the threat of big damage and stun, and that’s pretty draining after an entire round.
I think the top tier can all do something like that, but Makoto does it a lot better than most. The only reason I would place Yun above her is because when Yun activates Genei-Jin, the entire momentum of the game shifts. Yun with activated Genei-Jin is bar-none the best character in the game. He’s going to get you, and there’s usually nothing you can do about it but try to minimize it.
Yeah, exactly, the high-level Japanese players have found their way out of most of the bullshit in this game by becoming really good with the parry command, knowing how to pace the match to look for an opening to parry nd having balls of steel. But you simply can’t parry OR BLOCK Makoto’s command throw. That puts a lot of pressure on you, and you simply can’t wait until you see an opening to parry…
Because of the advantages everyone keeps on mentioning, Chun Li may still arguably be the best at our level of play, but the top-level Japanese players are at a whole different level with parrying and that makes Makoto’s strengths more valuable.
Makoto’s always had the stun combo… Her tools didn’t change… But as the Japanese keep on practicing their parrying, the culture of the game changes in a way that appreciates Makoto’s stock.
If you read fucking ANYTHING in the Makoto forum you would know that the combo you posted is not the 100% stun combo that EVERYONE ELSE knows about. Stop posting your ignorant bullshit and just read for once.
Hi, the thread was not about the combo, it was about makoto moving up to the 2nd slot. LEARN TO READ THE FUCKING THREAD TITLE, SHITCOCK.
Christ, I hate people.
You can’t parry or block it, but you can jump, backdash, or tech it. The first two leading to a free super. Strange. Chun’s mixup game, despite having the risk of being parried, /rarely/ leads to a free jump in combo. I wonder why that is… Ohyeah. SHE’S FUCKING TOP TIER, AND MAKOTO ISN’T.
And yes, Karakusa can be teched like a normal throw. It my knowledge it’s the only command throw that can be.
Just stop talking you retarded fuck. Don’t come up in here talking about some NEWLY DISCOVERED 100% STUN COMBO!!! that’s been known for years, and post the wrong fucking combo on top of that. You’re an idiot. Stop posting 15 times a day spreading your disease.
So is it a requirement that you play the game a million times and know it like the back of your hand to post on this forum?
Go choke on something and die please?
I don’t post 15 times a day. In the 3s forum, god what one every few days at most?
And I NEVER SAID THE 100% COMBO WAS NEW. I SAID MAKOTO BEING 2ND BEST WAS NEW. THAT’S WHAT THE THREAD WAS ABOUT.
Stop all the irrational fucking hatred.
EVEN IF EVERYTHING I SAID was wrong, you can simply click “General Strategy” and forget about it, and let people who DON’T know to see it. I’m sure most of the readers of the forum are much noobier than I am. You don’t have to spread a bunch of fucking hate, especially not on lyricals thread.
Go kill yourself please.
You choose to be ignorant. Which makes all my hating justified. The only sticky in the entire Makoto forum would’ve told you what you wanted to know. You wouldn’t had have to say “so it gets even worse” when someone actually did post the 100%.
It’s fucking sad and hilarious that this topic exists at all. You both need to listen to strakka 
cry
Still focusing on the 100% combo.
I’ve known there was one, however I thought it needed more than just 1 meter. Since I watch match vids very frequently from both japan and america and have NEVER seen it done with JUST a sa2 and 2 non-ex dragon punches (I’ve asked around, people who know alot more about the game than me knew about it but didn’t see it in tourney vids) I don’t think it’s out of bounds for posting.
I never said I didn’t know about the 100% combo. I said I didn’t know you could do it with just a super art. Which really, is just plain broken. And if you want to talk about choosing to be ignorant, the title of the thread was “Makoto up to 2nd best character in Japan.” All of the post but one sentence was about that. All of my intent was for the thread to be discussing makotos tier promotion. Not the fucking combo.
Get over yourself, you jackass.
“You can’t parry or block it, but you can jump, backdash, or tech it.”
Well, obviously there is some way out of everything in this game if you know it’s coming. But for reasons that Okeme articulated with far more understanding than I am capable of eloquating, it makes her mix-up game more unpredictable than the rest of the cast.
Chun Li has amazing shit too but now people are at the level where they can parry out of some of it some of the time. It doesn’t make Chun Li’s tactics completely useless now, but it may make her a little less dominating at high levels of Japanese play. And Makoto’s superior mix-up advantages may make her a little more dominating at high levels of Japanese play.
The whole point I was trying to make though is that unless you’re really as good as the Japanese, their views don’t really matter. Shit, parrying out of SAII, parrying out of Aegis Reflector, parrying out of Ryu’s unblockable, that stuff’s insane… But it happens during high level Japanese play… And since Makoto can take away half your life from an unblockable/unparryable tech throw, that might make her a little more potent at high levels.
“Chun’s mixup game, despite having the risk of being parried, /rarely/ leads to a free jump in combo.”
But if you parry the last hit of SAII, which is possible to do with reasonable consistency at mid-level of play, she can still lose half her life.
Ryu has an unblockable?
And on high level there’s a lot less jump-ins to start with, they all parry themselves in range. Though on the other hand, opponents are generally smart enough to not stick out any limbs until they have enough options themselves.
Which is why you /combo/ into the super, so parrying it isn’t an option, or, if you need the chip to win, throw an EX fireball first, which makes it significantly harder to do. Something which would have probably beat Daigo, if Justin did it at Evo2k4.
Your basing Chun-li not being the second most dominant character in the game on chip supers alone, and that’s stupid.
I think you miss my point. I think Chun Li’s probably the best overall at my level of play but I can see why she might fall when we’re talking about super-high Japanese level of play. It doesn’t mean that I’m on that level, but like a coach (or just an astute observer) I can still analyze the game and see why Makoto’s tools may become more favored at their level of play… It doesn’t mean that I have the reaction time, the execution or the yomi of a great Japanese player; however SFIII is still not rocket science and I can still analyze it the way I can analyze a boxing match or whatever…
"Your basing Chun-li not being the second most dominant character in the game on chip supers alone, and that’s stupid.
It’s not just about Chun Li’s tools being downgraded though. It’s more about Makoto’s tools being more potent at a high level because at that level parrying becomes far more important, and Makoto can do a lot of damage off of stuff you can’t parry.
I know that the ability to parry Chun Li’s chip damage barely helps a person defeat her. However I have seen three videos of high-level play where an opponent has done that… And if people know the Chun Li match up so well in this day and age that they have put forth the effort to learn advanced tactics as that, it is no wonder that some view her as less powerful now.
And again, it’s not necessarily how I feel about things… I’m just putting forth a hypothesis or a theory as to why some of the top-level Japanese players may see things that way.
^you dont understand 3s.
no offense, but you should probably try to understand the game at mid levels before you try to go analyze the highest level of the game being played. its like a 3rd grade football coach getting mad at tony dungy for some mistake he made in a game. are you entitled to your opinion? yes. but is that opinion educated…?