Chun-li Video/Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
4641

Alright 4neqs, as one of the last surviving active members here, I’ve got your back =trollface=
It’ll be a gradual process, but I’ll start right at the first matches you were asking about.
THINGS I NOTICED:
-Your opponent focused a stupid amount. When I say stupid, I don’t mean foolish, I mean stupidly high numbers. There were so many focuses. And yet, you continued to throw st./cr.:mp:, sweep, and other various assorted slow, focus-punishable moves at him. st.:mp: xx Hazanshu is great at killing focus, as is cr.:mk: xx legs. You did the xx into HSU a few times towards the end, but you let him get away with way too much of it. Also, do the full TC if he’s focusing! There’s no point in going for the mixup if he’s focusing, because it’ll take one more attack to break it, high OR low.
-Chun is known mostly for one thing in this game; her footsies. Her fireball is lackluster at best and her mixup leaves something to be desired. However, you seemed to want to be either at full screen or right up on him. Control the pace of the game by keeping him in footsie range. Oni’s got a couple of good pokes, but Chun can beat them any day. Get him in footsie range and keep him there as long as possible. Which leads to my next point…
-Slow down! These matches were all over so quickly! Personally, I prefer my matches to be long, drawn-out affairs. It gives me time to think and analyze and adapt to my opponent’s playstyle mid-round. Footsies is a slower way to deal damage.
-You let him jump on you too many times. Yes, Chun’s anti-airs when your opponent are on top of you are difficult to time correctly, but all of his jumps weren’t from point blank. st.:mk: does wonders, just be careful not to get :f: or :b: +:mk:
-At 1:30 in I think the second or third video, you landed your ultra and then did 5 st.:mp:s in a row and he finally EX DP’ed you. Vary it up! Yeah it’s a great poke, but it’s too easy to punish if you know it’s coming.
-As others have stated, you jumped WAY way way too much. Point has been made, moving on.
-You over-used Kyakurakukyaku :df:+:hk:, overhead flip kick on his wakeup. No offense to your foe, but if he was smart he would have been punishing all of those. If you want to use it on wakeup, get it to hit really deep and as ambiguously as possible.
-You landed a handful of Hazanshus. Hit up the lab and master the followups (cr.:lk: xx ex legs, cr.:lp: > st.:hp:, etc.)
-I know you mentioned ultra 1 vs ultra 2, I will echo the sentiment: go with ultra 1. When you’re at fullscreen, just focus his fireballs and make him scared to throw them once you have it stocked. You don’t have to always dash to it if you stand at ~3/4 screen.
-Lastly, there were many times that you jumped into the corner, whether as the result of a flip kick on his wakeup or just a random crossup jump into the corner. Chun is one of the weakest characters when she’s cornered, imho. EX bird is too easy to bait and she doesn’t have any other reliable options, really.

I’ll watch some more tomorrow, but I’m off of work for now. Keep it up!

4642

Hey! Thanks. That’s what I wanted to see.

Sadly, the guy I’ve been playing against is semi-retired, busy work work/wife, so I need to look somewhere else to get Oni/Balrog matchups these days.

4643

Make do casuals with custom cabs of old SF4. The buttons are balltop are so hard, so a lot of execution derp.

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4644

Oh man, I miss the old announcer <3

4645

-Anti-air. Said it before, I’ll say it again: learn how to anti-air, as it’s one of Chun’s strongest tools. Moving on.
-Generally work on your execution. I saw multiple opportunities where I knew what you were going for, but it just didn’t come out. It can rob you of a decent amount of damage.
-Sakura’s fireball is garbage. With that said, Chun’s fireball is wet garbage. Sakura will win the fireball war. Don’t try to play it (this is imo, I have no evidence).
-Sakura’s footsies, on the other hand, are not nearly of the calibre that Chun’s are. She has a few good pokes (cr.:lk: and sweep come to mind), but generally you should be winning the footsie war. Get close enough that you can control the pace with your pokes, but far enough that if she fireballs you can jump it and punish. Which leads me to…
-Stop jumping! I said it for your Oni video, I’ll say it again until I see it change! He anti-aired you more or less every single time you jumped in. Sakura has easy mode anti-air with cr.:hp:, so don’t even try. Don’t even jump over her fireballs, not even neutral jump. You get into the same position as with Sagat; he can kara DP, she can straight DP (it moves pretty far forward). However, you don’t want to eat chips all day, so…
-I’d recommend Ultra 1 in this matchup. If your opponent is playing keepaway, let him throw fireballs all he wants. Throw them back until he turns the tide, then focus. Once you get Ultra you can shut him down by standing a little less than full screen. He will want to back up to keep throwing fireballs, so…
-Walk him into the corner. This guy was perfectly content jumping and walking backwards into the corner. Let it happen. As tough as it is for Chun to deal with being in the corner, when she’s got someone in the corner she can be deadly with well-timed pokes.
-All of my points flow into each other today, it’s nice. If he happens to get YOU in the corner, be prepared every time that you throw EX Bird by buffering Ultra 2. I don’t know of any way to know if it’ll launch them into the corner or across the screen, but buffer it every time so that you can react when it works out in your favor (yes, you can EX bird to Ultra 2).
-Also, if he has you in the corner and he’s gonna throw charged fireballs, your best bet is to just block low. Sakura may be able to instant overhead, but she won’t convert nearly as much damage off of it as she could with a cr.:lk: xx EX Tatsu etc. EX HSU seems like a waste of meter and too easy to punish.
-To avoid getting into the corner, STOP DOING THE FLIP KICK INTO THE CORNER. You don’t have to do it every single time the other guy wakes up ya know! I don’t recall seeing it hit a single time. Let him wake up and hit him with sweep, or a tick throw, or a fireball chip. Vary it up.
-Also, vary your wakeup game (as in, when you are waking up). If you weren’t near the corner, you would almost always backdash on wakeup. It becomes easy to predict, and he punished you for it in the end of the second round in the third video.
-I saw you spam st.:mp: again at one point. Like I said before, it’s a good tool, but it’s also pretty easy to punish if you telegraph it.
-I saw you hit EX legs to EX bird in the corner at one point. Good stuff, that’s a LOT of damage and you should always be ready to do that if you don’t have Ultra stocked when you’re going for EX legs in the corner. However…
-I also saw you extending legs at a couple of points. Be EXTREMELY careful extending legs unless you know exactly how it’s going to turn out. Chun’s spacing and hitboxes are really really strange on extended legs, and you can easily hit your opponent out of the hitbox while extending the legs and leave yourself wide open.

Another day, another few videos down =)

4646

Video 1: Why am I Moving Sooo Much?!?
[LIST]
[*]Too much jumping, backdashing. The use of Hasanshu felt forced and random; making it glaringly obvious that you’re not confident in the Guile matchup. I understand you were trying to avoid a potential flurry of Sonic Boom spam, but this player was pretty passive… your excessive movements made it easy for him to counter you when you performed unsafe attacks.
[/LIST]
The use of Hasanshu should be pre-emptive, not reactive.

[LIST]
[]Play a more controlled pace. There’s no reason why Chun needs to behave in a manic fashion. Slow it up a bit. Analyze your opponent’s movements, look for patterns so that you can plan the proper punishment when they make a mistake or step into her poking range.
[]Know your normals… all of them, not just standing Fierce and Roundhouse. Chun’s normals are situational based… you can never depend on one as the definitive counter against all ranges/characters (especially since most can safe jump attacks like EX Spinning Bird Kick.
[*]Recommend Ultra for this matchup: U2. Why? Because you’re pretty consistent with landing EX Legs, which means that once you build meter for Ultra, you have a free pass for put out more damage.
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Video 2: Why Am I moving Soo Much?!? Part 2

[LIST]
[]Much better movement this time around. Still need to cut back on your use of jumping. At :40, your move marginally qualifies as a safe jump (seems he just executed the move a second too slow to be honest - nice nevertheless). Your best alternative to approaching the opponent safely is. . . walking! :slight_smile: It’s true. She has a very fast walk speed, which means there’s no need to excessively jump or even dash. Try to focus on doing this more often in your matches and I guarantee you that will have significant impact on the momentum of the match.
[]Round 2 was definitely a convincing win. You focused on playing a ground-based offense (which is what all Chun players SHOULD be doing against Guile, especially when the opponent has his normals/AA on lock.) Clearly this player still seems to be unfamiliar with his options, but that shouldn’t give you the impression jumping in his free. You have to watch for his Cr. FP, Flash Kick, St. Strong and St. FP – those are his best normals to keep Chun grounded. Heavy
[*]Boom usage is merely a lure to get you airborne because most players will expect you to get frustrated from taking so much block damage (unless you’re brave enough to neutral jump or simply FA the projectiles).
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Video 3: Am I Good Enough?

What’s the best way to deal with Sagat? Stay on the ground. I can’t hear your inputs, but I am hoping those Kicks aren’t mashed. Why? It’s because you potentially risk executing LK kicks instead (those suck).

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[LIST]
[]Props for getting most of your hit confirms… but like Dagon said, be careful about extending her range.
[]Nice cross up at 1:08. This Sagat player doesn’t seem to know the matchup. A solid Sagat would have you dealing with massive streams of Tiger Shots, Tiger Knee and Focus Attack bait. These matches seem better than the footage I’ve seen before. Just try to make your execution a bit cleaner and aim for other BNBs, beside just EX Legs (i.e. jab to FP strings)
[]Consider using her St. strong poke more… I mean liberally to control space.
[]Recommended Ultra for this matchup: U1. Solid Sagat players are going to chuck high/low Tiger shots like it’s going out of style. You want to create some fear factor here, so build up the Ultra meter and then punish with authority. The key is to look for patterns – never throw it out randomly. Bonus if you can execute Dash Ultra.
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Video 4: C’mon… Cannon Spike!
[LIST]
[]Ugh. Why does everyone love jumping solo much?! -_-
[]I think you did well over the first 15 seconds of the match. That Clammy player was just downright terrible. No concept of spacing or offensive options… and he forgets how to block.
[]Round 2, seems that you were too eager to get back on the offensive and couldn’t sit tight for your opening, so you ate a lot of unnecessary damage.
[]Keep an eye on their meter (as well as yours). It may sound silly, but players form certain habits based on their meter level. Like for example, the INSTANT he got meter, he was just waiting for you to blindly throw out a Kiko, so he backs up, waits for the moment to strike – bam, EX Hooligan. Look for these situations against Cammy players so that you can bait their attack and punish heartily.
[*]Recommend Ultra for this Matchup: U2, for the same reasons outlined in Video 1.
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Overall, your matches are certainly better than what you’ve featured a year ago. The key to your improvement is maintaining your composure (assuming that you potentially get nervous against opponents regardless if it’s a casual event or tournament). Even I tend to struggle with this now and then – especially if I’ve come home overworked or mentally tired. It’s best not to approach a session if you aren’t mentally rested. Make sure you get enough rest, stay hydrated and above all - practice your routines offline. Analyze matchup videos from other experienced players (even non-Chun Li matches). Why? Because it will help you to understand the meta-game behind their choices.

[LIST]
[]Why do they incorporate certain options above those that you may have potentially used?
[]Do you know what the best scenarios are to do under pressure?
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Think about it – SF is mostly about psychological warfare. High level players excel because they have strong matchup knowledge and the tools to take opponents out of their element. They don’t focus on the player, but the character. If you can adopt a strong mindset and can efficiently utilize your options without fail, your results will improve greatly.

Last, but not least – if you want to get better, than practice, practice, practice. For most players, this process is boring and feels unrewarding, but I can tell you about plenty of people in the community who wouldn’t be where they are today if they didn’t take this lesson to heart. It’s the only way to rise above mediocrity and gain the respect and satisfaction that you desire.

4647

[media=youtube]Gv3ko71EFlU[/media] Does this not work or no?

4648

I just got back into Chun Li after a hefty amount of time spent playing other characters. I think I’ve totally forgotten how to play Chun lol, and it’s obvious in the first video I’m going to post, vs Zangief. Probably my most pathetic match ever, and it’s supposed to be easy for her…
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My match vs a Seth player could’ve gone both ways… if it weren’t for the convenient lag when I got dizzied, it’d probably have ended right there.
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Vs T.Hawk, I think I did okay?
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Any advice is welcome.

4649

Thank you very much Dagon and Bahn! :party: :party: :party:

I had a lengthier reply, but Chrome ate it. :mad: I will compose it again later and have it up, I don’t want my thoughts on the matter to go to waste.

Played AE and v2012 over the weekend, needless to say (but I am anyway :lol: ) it still works.

It does for both Super and Ultra 1. (charge :b:), :f: :f: (dash), :b: :f: :k: or :3k:

You can practice by doing focus attacks first canceled into a forward dash, then do the second b,f (chargeless as in non-sonic boom) then kick button(s). When you get the hang of that, you can then do the first/sonic boom part with a dash and without a focus attack.

There’s even :b: :f:, :b: :b: (backdash), :f: Super/Ultra, but as you can imagine, it’s not as good. :lol:

4650

I just watched, I might PM some of the vids shared to me. I might also post on the Youtube vids themselves (as comments) aside from posting here.

I cringed at the Seth one at times. Don’t do naked focus attacks or fireballs when he’s sitting on an Ultra 1. That’s like -our- Ultra 1 (breaker and faraway/fireball punisher), but even better, because it’s a command motion and it can suck people out of the air.

On that note, was it just the lag, or was he getting away with murder with all his FA’s? Good that you weren’t jumping in on him much, but looks like he got away with a lot of FA’s --> his version of the Lightning Legs.

4651

As promised in another board:

Versus Juri:
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I love this fight because she’s my Alt so I’d like to think I know the match up pretty well even known I didn’t play it exceptionally well at first.
Important things to note from this video is to notice how this Juri basically kept doing the same things over and over. Such as the wake up senpusha and kasatushi’s and Neutral Jumps that I end up punishing him as the fight goes on.

Dash Ultra is a must have and you can also punish her Senpusha’s with Hosenka and her Super (duh) as seen in the video.
Like Adon keep in mind she’s standing on one foot, which makes cr.mk and cr.lk whiff at distances that would normally hit
FAs are extremely important; especially on her LK Fuhajins and try-try not to jump over them just slowly try and walk in. Also this guy didn’t store half as much as I do with Juri and LK will 99% of the time be the one stored in most cases (though for fellow Juri’s MK store against Adon, Hawk,Vega and other jumpy bastards is awesome)
I could list some more helpful tidbits but I wanted to stick to what you see in this video.

Versus T-Hawk:
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Fighting Hawk with Hosenka!?!? You mad!? can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that. You’ll see why in video.
Nothing too terribly note worthy that can’t be plainly seen or already discussed.
Other than the fact I got incredibly cocky in round two and was going for a Sheningan Perfect. I should have known better as every Hawk I’ve fought will mash their way out stressful sitatutions.

At any rate, hopefully someone can take something away from these fights. I’m by no means a pro or expert level player.
I plan a massive write up and all kinds of testing for Chun in SF X TK as that is where my attention will be come March 6.
I’d like to sort of become the OHT for Chun in that game as I really enjoy helping people and won’t have to play any catch up when that game hits shelves, lol!

4652

o/t
Rayartz, Chun/Juri theory fighter over here.

For larger characters, you pretty much want to have an :hk: fireball stored at all times. It can hit them standing-- even when they’re not jumping.

4653

I think you need to be more creative with your Ultras
what I mean by that is both Hawk (especially Hawk) and Gief got away whiffing specials in front of you that could have been punished. Kikosho in Hawk’s face as he’s doing his little ground slide dive trash whatever you call it you’ve been great as he made it clear he was going to do that the whole fight. You also had a perfect opportunity to combo into U2 against Hawk but didn’t.

I use U1 against Hawk (see video above for one reason why)
You also play the match ups differently than I do (which is fine–do what works for you), I’m always aggressive. So I just wanted to point out a few missed opportunties for some nice damage that could have swung the fight more in your favor and at the very least made your opponent approach you differently.

4654

Very true, I still prefer MK as its harder to walk under and jump over. I’d go into more but Chun is standing behind me saying “This is my board!” lol

4655

Yeah, I kinda facepalmed when I realized I could have Hosenka’d Gief’s missed ultra. But this match up I’m still quite clueless. All I know is that people say it’s easy for Chun.

4656

Chun-Gief is pretty heavily in Chun’s favor. My advice would be to throw as few fireballs as possible and rely on your pokes. This matchup helped me learn how to anti-air with Chun, because Gief is huge and it’s good practice. Watch out for his mixup on your wakeup, as this will be where Gief gets most of his damage. I haven’t yet watched the videos, because I owe 4neqs another page or two of videos first :wink:

4657

Doesn’t anyone else on here dig Soul Calibur V? I only shared it here, cuz I love hearing from the Fellowship and it’s been crickets, lol. :frowning:

(I plan on stepping up the quality to be even better than it currently is – meaning replays from SFIV AE, Soul Calibur V and the upcoming SF x Tekken will be in full 720p!)

4658

Haven’t played SC5, just haven’t had the time to get into it. I’m sure I’d really enjoy it if I had the chance though.

Also, Gief vs Chun is in Chun’s favor if and only if she can effectively keep him out. If he’s in, he can make up for the lost damage very quickly.

4659

You would. Solid gameplay - really rewards intelligent play. My sparring partner has a sick Leixia.

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YAY, the quality** FINALLY** came out in 720p as I wanted. For those of you who want to see the replay in the highest quality, have at it and lemme know what you think please I intend to include future matches at that standard.

4660

Bahn I just want to know what you doing to get that quality? totally jealous as my camera is crap