Chun-li Video/Discussion Thread

Right then so as I said before this is kinda a self C&C and an attempt to explain how I played the set as well as point out good and bad things. That’s why I haven’t just picked fights I played well in so people don’t need to offer advice but it is alway welcome.

The fights aren’t in order of when they happened during the set but I’ll go through them in the order I’ve uploaded the. Also sorry for the video corrpution I have no idea why its there as its not present on thr raw files on my PC…

[media=youtube]UeRpjQxdiuI[/media]

Fight 1:

This was actually the last fight in the set so by this point I had a pretty good read on the Sagat hence I started with a Kikoken as I can’t remember him ever jumping at my at the start of a fight. Note though imo the best thing to do at the start of a fight that you’re not sure of what the other player will do is to do nothing.

Don’t throw an attack out or even walk back, just wait and react to him, this way you can be sure you won’t take damage or give up screen space by walking back at the start of depending on what he does you have the chance to take the momentum at the start of the fight.

0:08: Landed Air to Air into stomps then did flipkick, as he had no meter he wasn’t going to mash DP so this was a safe option. However it was a bad choice really as I’d already pushed Sagat close to the corner and keeping him nearer a corner than me is more important than trying to keep relentless pressure up.

0:12: Jumping Target Combo with OS Sweep in it on his Focus, at this range whilst Sagat is focusing he has no options, if he cancels and backdashes Sweep hits him (and his focus cancel and backdash are poor so spaced right he can’t evade it) If he had cancelled into forward dash he might have just evaded me and then 90 percent of the time players go for a throw. This is the other advantage to the OS sweep I used, has I had charge retention the OS part of it would have trigger me to do the flipkick (as Sagat would have been behind me) this evades a grab and creates a decent mix up on his dash that you can combo cr.lk, EX Legs from… Anyway he just got hit by it instead.

0:20: Landing behind him I could have scored damage but opted for the throw to set up Safe jump (dash Target Combo) because you have lots of options from this safe jump set up all of which I had used several time during the set as you must vary what you do, both hits of the target combo, 1 hit into cr.lk or empty jump into cr.lk/HSU (not this option is Never used early in a game or set as you can’t take the risk he doesn’t know its a safe jump…condition first)

0:28: Dizzied opponent DON’T use focus on a dizzied foe unless you feel you have to as it scales the next lot of damage even more. Use either what I used or neutral jumping hp (both hits) its better damage and less scaling on the follow up combo

0:52: BAD choice by me sticking out a sweep on prediction that he was going to cancel his dash, he would have as the range was bad for it but I did the sweep on prediction (even though he had done this to me a few times during the set, I wasn’t remembering his habits) wait and react or get crumpled like me :frowning:

1:00: Didn’t go for a follow up from legs cos I landed the loop before, meaning I was confident he wouldn’t be pressing buttons, throw for full throw damage after scaled legs and a hard knockdown.

1:10: He had just allowed me to neutral jump (which isn’t safe against Sagat on wake up but like I said this was game 17 so I knew what I could get away with) and had got hit by the second part of my hp target combo. So second time empty jump into cr.lk cos he’s not going to crouch fast enough after doing so too quickly a few seconds earlier… Make sure you vary what you do each time like I did.

1:15: Dropped link even though I plinked, lucky I was holding back to block his mashed DP mashed enough to get super lol…

All in all decent play from me, used safe jumps for most of my jump ins or only when he was focusing at a bad range (or from a hard knockdown) and made sure each set up I did was a variation on the one before it. These things allowed me to control the space, match and momentum…

Fight 2:

Pretty early in the set so I was still learning what he did and what he knew about the match up, I don’t control this fight as well because I allow him to zone and keep me out.

1:35: Start of fight just trying to get into a range that I can poke him out of fireballs with st.mp and stay at that range. Easy to read fireball pattern from him so I jumped on reaction and after legs went for a cheeky cl.hk frametrap into legs, if he’d have pressed a button I’d most likely have got the hit and good damage, cancelled hk into legs to me safe (hit or block this was my plan)

1:50: Whiff punish badly spaced normals with st.mp it will make people press buttons less

2:05: cr.mk beats tigerknee or makes it whiff if sagat does it after a cr.mk, this is important as its a good footsies tool for sagat and if you make him feel like he can’t use it you have an advantage, notice in the first fight (that was the last) he didn’t use this move… conditioning :slight_smile: You have to punish other characters tools if you can as you have to make them aware its not a free move for them.

2:10: There I go again with the cr.hk and I deserved what I got, sadly as the first fight proved I didn’t learn from this… I am an idiot, you have to note what your opponent is doing and not play on autopilot prediction, my error was punished as it should be.

2:30: I was just playing patientally, but took a risk (SBK wa accident it was meant to be HSU) even if I’d got the right move it was a bad idea, rounds last 99 seconds you have plenty of time, so use it don’t rush to get in…

2:45: He has the life lead but is in the corner so I’m trying to press a little, the 2 reps of legs are to look for a counterhit and then damn I get whiff punished pressing a button looking for a counterhit myself (its a set up for counterhit into ultra 1) cr.hp xx Legs walk back a fraction st.mp (try it)

Then I burn 2 bars just to keep the pressure up, bad use of meter as this is only the first round I shouldn’t be pressing so hard and managing my meter so badly, that’s half a super wasted on pointless pressure I could of had early in the next round. Think about the long game in terms of meter and not just the current round :frowning:

254: Classic DP bait dash then wait, however I choose the wrong punish, throw where Sagat is should actually have been a waste as it offers no Safe jump, should have done focus to cl.hk, EX Legs… Still I got away with it

3:15: Standard set up to catch cr.tech, cr.jab then stand move slightly then cr.hk, use a variaty of ways to punish cr.tech and people pressing buttons a lot.

Then I set up safe jump and use an empty jump variation, however not only do I drop my link but I should have been using EX Legs BnB as I need to push sagat back towards the corner and you can do this better with a combo that knocks him over… Really bad choice from me

3:30: st.hp stuffs his fireball that’s the range I want to be at but then I walk back away and trade AA which is fine, even not in my favour I’ll take trades as it keeps them out.

3:45: So basically the round is over I get desperate and jump totally unsafely in every way possible, we trade he gets distance from me but I get one last chance and drop my Legs extension on block, which I didn’t expect and so aren’t blocking :frowning:

4:05: He uses Angry scar, so I am NOT going to random jump at him again, so I try and work my way in slowly as blocking fireballs is fine. You don’'t have to try and avoid or focus all fireballs, focusing fireballs actually means you’re less likely to attack (grey damage and all)

Bad choice to random HSU, don’t do random things

4:20: Random backflip, not even close to a good idea, I think he should have punished me harder but as Sagat I can see why he chose to put space between us…

Again don’t do random things

4:30: From this hard knockdown its hard to safe jump sagat so I don’t, you don’t have to jump after every knockdown. Instead I go for a meaty cr.mk (only because he has no meter to FADC, take note of this, with meter you need to respect peoples wake up) into cr.lk looking for a hit in the frame trap, without it Ido a block string that punshes Sagat too far away…

I want to be close to him so this was a bad idea, I’m losing and Chun wants to be close, again this is autopilot play and bad…

4:40: I knew he was going to throw a fireball so I was trying to stuff it but EX is too fast, now I’m feeling this round and game are over, I have little life and have to work my way back in again so I just Random Ultra. Really I had 50 seconds left and full super, I had plenty of time to get back into the fight but I gave up…

Looking back, lots of time, full super 6-4 match up in my favour (imo) I shouldn’t have cracked.

Fight 3:

This fight is like the second fight in the set so he is doing a lot of tigerknees and we are both still trying to work each other out.

5:00: General back and forth, trying to force him into the corner with my walkspeed and normals

5:35: mix up from cr.hp xx Legs just si he knows I have options from it that beat cr.tech (for later in the set) I’m just trying to make him start to think about my options.

Then I eat a DP (when I could have baited it but he didn’t have meter so I thought I could press a button) this made me annoyed and I do randon wake up EX SBK… Don’t get annoyed just take it on board as data, obviously as an early fight he was going to be looking to bait scrubby wake up EX SBK and he did… Don’t use it on wake up very often and never after eating something random, people expect you to retaliate…

5:50: Go for a throw here instead of a combo so I can safe jump and use a variation, again I’m trying to show him my options so that later on in the set he feels he has to guess more.

6:05: cr.mk that tigerknee, shame I drop my string from it and eat damage

6:22: Stupid jump in I shouldn’t have done but I was desperate, then a bit of that Chun walkspeed mindgames walk up throw… To set up safe jump for a variation yet again…Dropped my combo though bad execution.

I ultra him pressing buttons cos I know he’s baiting but I looked at his health and tried to chip him by doing ultra as he presses a button giving him no time to react with ultra himself. Risky but it worked.

6:49: I should have punished his focus I knew I was out of range but walked back, yet another mistake to chip away at his health…

7:02: Did not see that coming as only the second game in the set I didn’t know if he could Kara (he could) again I got annoyed an EX SBK on wake up, it worked but DON’T DO IT

7:25: Missed super that’s the reason I stand there for a second afterwards, and its the reason I went for that combo against a whiffed Kara DP (that I was waiting for given what had just happened, hence I wasn’t pressing forward as much) focus cl.hk, EX Legs is your go to punish on whiff hp DP’s I just wanted to land Super…

7:40: Variation after jump in to catch him cr.teching, again try and make sure you mix up your options, gives you more scope later in sets to be creative and use frametraps etc…

7:50: Its that counterhit set up looking for a counterhit on st.mp so I can Ultra (or super), I don’t get it so as I have the life lead I back off, no point taking risks when both of us have little life left. I’m winning so he can come to me.

8:12: Sagat is a bitch to AA sometimes so change your range as he jumps at you, it gives you options like this. This it all I wanted as I have the life lead and he has no health or time, so he’s going to press to get damage and with Super stocked anything he does now means he’s dead…

I’m just waiting :slight_smile:

8:18: wait over…

Well there you go a C&C on my own matches along with a few pointers and explanations, hope this is useful and interesting, mainly to the newer Chuns but hey it was helpful for me anyway, any questions or advice, go for it… Also was this worth me doing lol

im reading ill edit once i have finished :B

edit. ok i agree with your C&C if i may there is something you could used in the last fight and that is hazanshu into super, im not talking about the cr.lp, fierce link, im talking about linking the super from the hazanshu, im aware that you were baiting dps after the hazanshu on hit and what not, but in the last fight you could won that many times using that link, and i know that there are other 7 fights in which you may or may not punished him in that situation… hk hazanshu is the easiest to hit confirm, mk is somewhat tricky and the lk is just “WTF how do you that”, precharging is your best friend in this combo. My favorite set up is after a F.throw, dash, dash and buffer the hcb and hold a bit back, then hit LK, by the time hazanshu hits you can link super, works wonders against conditioned players, DO NOT USE IT AGAINST DP HAPPY PLAYERS ;_;. /m2c

[media=youtube]iU2obD3KFPM[/media]!

Does Chun-Li not have +1 on a level 1 focus anymore? It looks like it here :frowning:

Currently, isn’t Chun ~-21f on block or hit, and ~+10 if you dash cancel the recovery?

You’re thinking of level 2, level 1 has a lot less blockstun than that.

Can’t figure out how to get out of a table, so I’ll add my comments before the data. Seems like she’s -21 on hit/block, dashing eliminates the recovery frames (thusly adding 35 frames to the -21) putting her at +14. I know this is the video thread and I hate to derail it, but am I overlooking something?

SRK:
Focus Attack LVL 1 HL 60 100 20 - 21 2 35 -21 -21
Focus attack LVL 2 HL 80 150 40 - 17+14 2 35 -15 -
Focus attack LVL 3 - 120 200 60 - 65 2 35 - -

Eventhubs:
Focus Attack Level 1 HL 60 100 20 - 21 2 35 -21 -21
Focus Attack Level 2 HL 80 150 40 - 17+14 2 35 -16 D
Focus Attack Level 3 - 120 200 60 - 65 2 35 D
D

Lol. Dude, dashing doesn’t ELIMINATE the recovery frames, it REPLACES them with a dash. Which is 15 frames, or something, dashes out of focus attacks have slight frame changes sometimes. So yeah, she’s +1(ish).

srk wiki has all that info, do not use eventhubs, do it for the pandas

D’oh…I feel so foolish. I swear I knew that, it was just a brain fart x_x

EDIT: just so we’re clear, you’re talking about Level 2 FA dash, right? 'Cause her forward dash is 15 frames and she’s at -21 on hit or block level 1 FA dash, wouldn’t that put her at +6?

Why does everyone prefer the SRK wiki to eventhubs?

Because SRK Wiki is right and covers things in more depth, Eventhubs is an evil place that should never really be trusted and Panda’s get to stay alive…

yeah pandas and koalas

Welp, I don’t get it, but oh well. If the SRK wiki is regarded as correct, I’ll trust it.

To get the thread back on track, I should have a bunch of new videos uploaded this weekend. Hopefully I don’t have any more double-perfects, but I’m sure I’ll have something that I will want input on.

haha. :smiley: It happens.

The Okay, first thing, the second actice frame counts as a recovery frame if the actack hits on the first frame, right? okay, so level one focus has 36 recovery frames in most situations. You’re replacing that wih 15 frames, which is 21 frames faster, which means it’s +0 instead of -21.

EXCEPT (And you weren’t expected to know this) Dashes after a focus are one frame faster than normal, while dashes after an EX focus (that is, a focus cancel) are three frames slower than normal, so after a level one focus atack from nuetral, Chun Li should be +1 according to the data.

It’s to do with Maj from sonichurricane getting annoyed at their business model, and when he stopped making content as seriously, he called them out, and it came accross as why he was quitting, even though it wasn’t.

The other reasons are because they fairly obviously copy and paste their frame data from the SRK wiki, and because ad revenue at SRK goes to keeping these useful forums and evo alive, while ad revenue at eventhubs goes into things I don’t care about.

I didn’t see these videos posted so I though I would mention it here.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16328586 (Nuki playing ranked matches)

We learned of Nuki’s gamertag = nuki777

I saw something cool at 5:36 in the above video. He counters Dhalsim’s standing fierce with dash focus into Ultra. :slight_smile:

^You can also do that vs Seth too, right? iirc, as long as you weren’t on the very tip of his fists, you could response U1 as soon as you block that s. hp as well.

===
Casuals vs a friend’s Sakura, those lk and EX tatsus are such a pain.

The charged hadoken has me scared too. So I try to EX-HSU out of it a few times. But would it be preferable to just stand up and try to block it instead? Need to learn this matchup better.

[media=youtube]V45c6bN4A1E[/media]

[media=youtube]UQ0Ob4ssZ1s[/media]

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Will watch these tonight and send you feedback hopefully tomorrow :slight_smile: Sakura can be scary I think

This is especially important.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/374260_2368957185773_1305759826_32778346_1785819351_n.jpg

Got your PM. Thanks! I will reply via PM later too.

ill watch them too, but my exp against sakura is next to nothing ;_;

I’m still a beginner but I want to test myself out if I’ve correctly spotted the mistakes.

You should drop the habit of jumping out of a corner, the opponent usually watches for it because your options are limited in corner and jumping is the most “natural” method for people to try.
Another thing is, you missed a lot of crLk, crLk, EX Legs and sometimes wasted EX Legs whiffing or on block. By the looks of it I would say you switched controllers (perhaps moved onto arcade stick) and still are getting used to it.
I would recommend a lot more throw attempts whenever in throw range, also after blocked cr. jabs. Doing 2 cr. jabs is a good hit confirm for continuing a combo, blockstring or taking a step forward and throwing.
I also noticed Sakura player jumps over Kikokens a lot, now I am not sure whether the jump in is faster than you can make an anti-air move but you should be prepared for it and shut that down. I recommend going to training mode and finding the reliable move (I think standing close Fierce usually does the trick, atleast it did in regular SF4)

I watched the first video only so far, correct my suggestions if I’m wrong.