Chun-li Video/Discussion Thread

[Dime]

Thanks for the tips, buddy. Hey, isn’t Hermosa Beach close to Santa Monica?

np dude :tup: i hope you critique some of my vids when i get more to post up!

yeah santa monica is pretty close to hermosa… we definitely need to play!the sessions will be great practice! i’m trying to get ready for evo so that hopefully i dont go out 0-2… need all the practice i can get…

maximillian masters lives in santa monica also, that dude is INSANE, you should hit him up on x-box live, he uses FA better than anyone i’ve seen play SF4. he can teach anyone a thing or 2.

that dhalsim critique was bare bones… i have a very hard time dealing with good sims… combofiends sim beat me like 15 games to 2 down at family arcade months back… and that was after he had been using him for only about a week, plus i think he was actually taking it easy on me…

one thing i can say is that chuns jump in game DOES NOT work versus sim… B+MK shuts down all her jump ins, slide beats crossups, and B+HK is just there to add insult to injury… its no good to jsu over his fireballs if in range of st mp, hk, or mk.

which is why its get all in at one time or nothing… he owns chun at any range that isnt full screen, or right up in his grill…

this is how i see the japs playing the matchup also so i figured that i was onto something once i discovered the strategy.

-dime

[GoofyhanD]

edit: Goofy, I checked your matches vs Sabin, I think you shouldn’t let him get those free teleports with Sim, just close fierce him. They were great matches though, you know the importance of walk+block against Sim, and to focus the limbs.

Yeah, I hear ya on that. I was actually getting used to the lag and trying to adjust. If you watch them all in a row (don’t do that BTW) you’ll see that the first few games he teles for free, next few I start jabbing him out of it and the last few games I was cs. RHing him. Also, do you think that cs. Fierce is better than cs. RH? Seems to me that RH has a better hitbox, higher hitbox.

chun gets thrown from gief range, goofyhand yells WTF!

omg that was priceless:rofl: i must have re-played that like fifteen times! reminiscent of DSP!

on to the matchup:

sabin is indeed a really good sim player… i probably would have lost that also… but theres some things that you wern’t doing that could have made his life much harder:

backup and throw kikokens… yeah you were doing that, but you kept followin them in trying to get in on sim… thats NOT what you should do, his response to this wasnt the best one imho… he was focusing them backwards very predictably… you should have tried to setup a situation where if he focused one of your kikokens you would have immediately hit him with hasan shu… i actually think you had that option a couple times… sim takes damage like a lil ol bitch eating kikoken then HS then cr.lk xx ex legs would have hurt him alot AND given you the knockdown.

To me, I think I have absolutely no threat to Sim from full screen. He can beat Chun’s FBs, and he has a much better poking threat from full screen. When I would just sit back and throw FBs, he would just absorb or jump up with the threat of pokes, and if he saw me throw an FB he’d teleport and get his free combo/throw mix up in. This is why I felt I had to throw and chase. I didn’t even think about the absorb hasan shu backdash thing. You are right. Thanks for that.

he was giving you troubles with throwing kikokens cause of his jumping fierce… thats why chun has such a fast walk backwards speed and sim has such a bad walking forward speed… chun can get to full screen against sim in order to throw safe kikokens very easily. also he was predictable with jumping fierce… focus that and dash cancel forwrd twice… gets you close or in for free.

Didn’t think about focus dashing the jumping fierces. ugh. I was trying to block dash ultra which wasn’t working either to lag or poor execution.

also NEVER PLAY the midrange against sim… chun will get raped there for free… its basically full screen distance or upclose in his face, the ony time you should play midrange is when you get a good read on him (like his abuse of jumping fierce)

This I do understand. I was actually trying to see if anything Chun has would beat his pokes and I quickly found out that she doesn’t. I do need to mentally focus on being at full or face when fighting him. I do like that advice.

Thanks very much, Dime. Very appreciated.

[GoofyhanD]

He seems to block all your pokes everytime. Try more throws inside to keep him guessing.

Also you tend to throw fireballs full screen alot and he punishes you. Maybe change that up a bit.

Another thing I noticed was several opportunities for you to use EX SBK. He jumped in alot to do crossups and I think EX SBK would have made his jump ins more cautious. (3:20 in match 4 was a good example)

Yes, you are right on the FB from Full. I was learning all of this on the fly as I’ve never played against a Seth before that actually knew what he was doing.

I dunno about EX SBK. I remember a few times trying it and the cross up RH??? stuffed it everytime. Thanks for the lookout though.

[GoofyhanD]

np dude :tup: i hope you critique some of my vids when i get more to post up!

yeah santa monica is pretty close to hermosa… we definitely need to play!the sessions will be great practice! i’m trying to get ready for evo so that hopefully i dont go out 0-2… need all the practice i can get…

I’d be more than glad to critique your matches. Post’em up! Yeah, we should play offline and lab. It would help us both for EVO.

maximillian masters lives in santa monica also, that dude is INSANE, you should hit him up on x-box live, he uses FA better than anyone i’ve seen play SF4. he can teach anyone a thing or 2.

I tried talking to him but it kind of fizzled out. I’ll try and reach him again.

one thing i can say is that chuns jump in game DOES NOT work versus sim… B+MK shuts down all her jump ins, slide beats crossups, and B+HK is just there to add insult to injury… its no good to jsu over his fireballs if in range of st mp, hk, or mk.

which is why its get all in at one time or nothing… he owns chun at any range that isnt full screen, or right up in his grill…

this is how i see the japs playing the matchup also so i figured that i was onto something once i discovered the strategy.
-dime

100% agreed!

[Dime]

To me, I think I have absolutely no threat to Sim from full screen. He can beat Chun’s FBs, and he has a much better poking threat from full screen.

:

you do have a threat, he cant do damage to you at full screen, whereas as your meter increases, you become much more dangerous to him… YOU CANT stop him from getting meter though… so you may as wel kick it on the opposite side of the screen and build meter.

he DOESN’T want you to do that. he wants you to become stupid and try to fight him at mid screen. at this point the match is a stalemate… your not dumb enough to engage him at midscreen, and hes’ not stupid enough to close the gap, if he jumps to predict your fireballs so that he can fierce you, you have an easy counter: block. if he pressures you with standing limbs… who cares… they do NO DAMAGE… at that point sim starts to realize that his strategy might not work so well… you turtle just as well as he does… at that point he’s likely to get anxious… when that happens he’ll tk teleport into you… if you were ready for it, he basically might lose the entire round for that mistake… rather than making you come to him… he just came to you… IT’S YOUR WORLD NOW! he will feel the pain. theres very little reason to let up on sim if you manage to get close. nothing he has up close is particularly scary except for super…

which brings me to another point: almost EVERY sim that i’ve played against gets superitis… the instant they get it they want to land “the combo of doom” cause if they do manage to land it, they’ve basically won the round, and can start building meter again.

use that info to let them hang themselves, by teleporting right into your “fangs”.

another point besides many from the first match video that i saw is that almost everytime sim punished your kikoken with jumping fierce… HE WAS ALREADY IN THE AIR when you threw it (yes he was VERY close to the ground but i digress)
also all of those kikokens were thrown from 3/4 screen, NOT full screen.

3/4 screen kikoken versus jumping sim = BAD

to illustrate my point exactly watch the first round of this vid and see the very first jumping fierce punish that he did to you… i think you’ll notice him at 3/4 screen if not closer and also he was already in the air.

[media=youtube]NelRc_tp0Hc&feature=PlayList&p=0CDB8AA1A408DC67&index=1[/media]

also pm me your number, i’d like to get together to get some games in over a non laggy face to face

-dime

[MagnetoManiac]

Yeah, I hear ya on that. I was actually getting used to the lag and trying to adjust. If you watch them all in a row (don’t do that BTW) you’ll see that the first few games he teles for free, next few I start jabbing him out of it and the last few games I was cs. RHing him. Also, do you think that cs. Fierce is better than cs. RH? Seems to me that RH has a better hitbox, higher hitbox.

I’m not sure, but close fierce has always proved to come out instantly for me, and has insane priority. Not sure about the recovery time on both, they feel the same. Not sure of the damage and stun either, so that’s something the look into.

When I’m losing, I will go for a close jab if he teleports and mix him up for more damage/try to stun him. If I’m winning, I’ll go for the more damaging + guaranteed first and play everything else by ear.

Oh yeah, once or twice he did a raw ultra in front of you, when he’s that close you can charge your ultra during his start up animation then ultra him and push him out, missing Sim’s ultra completely. I posted some info on this match in the match up thread, hopefully it helps you out some, if you haven’t seen it already.

Hmm, this isn’t likely, but I have an idea to test kikoken -> regular lightning legs to build meter. It works on Balrog, so I’m wondering if the LL hitbox would hit a limb, since Sim’s limbs don’t have the greatest priority/hitbox.

[GoofyhanD]

SNIP…

also pm me your number, i’d like to get together to get some games in over a non laggy face to face

-dime

I agree with what you are saying here and I see those mistakes. That’s great OPS. I think what was going on with some of them was when I thought he was going to land, I would throw one out to make him block or react but it wasn’t getting through my head that he can teleport and punish me very easily unlike all other characters in the cast. I guess I just have to have that in my memory bank when fighting against him. I couldn’t tell you why I was throwing out kikos while he was at the top of his jumps…stupid.

I also see the 3/4 rule. Nice.

One more thing, on several matches I would block a slide and punish to Super but would never land, so much to the point that Dhalsim had time to backdash before my first hit connected. You think that lag was a factor here or is it just unsafe/risky to do since he was hitting me deep into it and had fewer recovery frames? Basically, would you Super a blocked Dhalsim slide offline?

I PMed my number. Maybe we can play this weekend…

[GoofyhanD]

Oh yeah, once or twice he did a raw ultra in front of you, when he’s that close you can charge your ultra during his start up animation then ultra him and push him out, missing Sim’s ultra completely. I posted some info on this match in the match up thread, hopefully it helps you out some, if you haven’t seen it already.

I didn’t know that you can push him out of Ultra when he is point blank. I’ve never done this point blank but when I always punish his Ultra with my Ultra, I hit him once and I take his full Ultra with an extra hit for him since I knocked him out of his animation. I will try this. Thank you.

Hmm, this isn’t likely, but I have an idea to test kikoken -> regular lightning legs to build meter. It works on Balrog, so I’m wondering if the LL hitbox would hit a limb, since Sim’s limbs don’t have the greatest priority/hitbox.

I always do j. kikoken and 2 hasans behind the kikoken to build meter. Seems the best way to build up quickly and tends to annoy your opponent and causes him to come at you. :pleased:

[MagnetoManiac]

I didn’t know that you can push him out of Ultra when he is point blank. I’ve never done this point blank but when I always punish his Ultra with my Ultra, I hit him once and I take his full Ultra with an extra hit for him since I knocked him out of his animation. I will try this. Thank you.

I always do j. kikoken and 2 hasans behind the kikoken to build meter. Seems the best way to build up quickly and tends to annoy your opponent and causes him to come at you. :pleased:

Cool, I just wanted to remind you that it doesn’t have to be point blank to counter ultra. As long as you push him even just a LITTLE bit, it will work. A little below half screen would be the safest max distance, since her ultra goes about half screen and that’s where she would get hit if she didn’t push him.

edit: Oh and another thing I just remembered, is that you’ll get hit if he does it with his back to the corner since he can’t be pushed :/. But the good news is, if he has 1 hit left to die, you can still hit him before you take the ultra damage ^_^.

[CarmineMac]

I didn’t know that you can push him out of Ultra when he is point blank. I’ve never done this point blank but when I always punish his Ultra with my Ultra, I hit him once and I take his full Ultra with an extra hit for him since I knocked him out of his animation. I will try this. Thank you

I thought so. Your startup goes through it. As long as the hitting part of yours is not in the flame, you’re golden.

[miyodarius]

http://www.capcom.co.jp/sf4/tournament.html

Vids of the national tournament. The new videos include RF’s Sagat vs Nuki’s Chun. Nuki uses C.MP as anti-air against Sagat’s J.MP, and it works pretty well.

:sad: @ the first round of the second match. Look how much life Chun loses to Tiger Uppercut xx SADC, F+RH, Ultra! That shit’s not right man.

Also, in the final round of the third vid, right before Chun loses, look at what happens - Chun jumps and does EX Hasan Shu - but it comes out so fast, it looks like she doesn’t even hit the ground!

I’ve played against RF’s Sagat…he’s just good. He can kill you with fireballs alone.

Thats bull crap! Im a fan of Street fighter, but more of a fan of Chun-li… how is she supposed to defend herself against that. I mean this game is so real life balanced! i mean the females are weaker, and the small to big depend how strong you are.
I my eyes, Soul Calibur the better fighting game, but I’m not gonna give up in Street fighter.
to me, it sounds like this game got its rating off being the fan favorite, other than game wise

[Skatan_Milla]

To me, I think I have absolutely no threat to Sim from full screen.

From full screen you can gain meter through throwing fireballs, and you can whiffpunish his hp pokes with Chun’s far mp, it can be done on reaction.
I haven’t tried with cr.hk but since they’re both 7 frames it should be doable as long as cr.hk can hit it, but afaik cr.hk has the same range as far mp does.
If cr.hk works that would be great since that will grant you a knockdown and a golden chance to get in.

[System_1]

grudge match

i’m gonna include the scrubbiest, possibly worst played ranked game that got me into the grudge match. shield your eyes, because mentally all i had on my mind was the fact that my shitty fucking mad catz default buttons were getting sticky as though i had jacked off on them (namely the joystick and the lk button), and it cost me the previous match due to a failed ultra that i swear to jesus with a guitar on his back i did. so i was full of anger and spam, and scrub. don’t ask me how i magically won this.

[media=youtube]vBI7zJtkLQU[/media]

following that match, i got a voice msg where he said “wow don’t think you’re nice for winning. don’t think your nice.” i sent him a text that said " ". he sent me a game invite like 1 second later, spammed me a few times with them. so for some reason i grinned because i like playing under angry pressure and somehow felt like i was in tournament setting again. so i saw some pro spirit rise up and want to play, just to see what happened.

you don’t have to watch them all, but most important are probably first and final sets. first set because it was right after that ranked game and there was a lot of mental pressure i was under to win since it was a grudge match. final match because he quit right after.

grudge match set #1: [media=youtube]bt59ybNEo3k[/media]

grudge match sets #3 - 5: [media=youtube]Yyspj4-DSHQ[/media]

(my vcr stopped recording during 1st round 2nd set, which sucks cause i actually did some really good shit that set.):

grudge match final set: [media=youtube]-hXKCvaf6ac[/media]

(LMAO at the final round…i got grabbed cause i was an asshole and thought maybe i could wakeup ultra him. and that fucking SUPER happened because of my fucking sticky jizz LK key AHHHH. holy SHIT!)

i’m getting better at back dash on wakeup, dash ultra on reaction, and staying loose and not falling into a bad pattern of scrambling to jump backwards or attack on wakeup when people put pressure. at least i catch myself faster. i spazzed out a bunch on the FA crumple because mentally i would remember at the last second to try and do the stomp, jfp, stomp stomp stomp…but would either not dash, dash foward, or do nothing (kept forgetting its DASH FUCKING BACK ASSHOLE!)

oh well, hope you guys like at least some of it :tup: !

[Thunder_Sock]

I’ve watched the first 2 matches, and don’t take this the wrong way, but please stop throwing ex.kikoken constantly. That metre is far too valuable for that. The only time I ever meaty an ex.kikoken is when the chip damage will win the round for me. Other than that you are using ex.kikoken to punish him in the air where normal kikoken would’ve sufficed, and also for alot of other stuff; you were doubly punishing yourself versus his red fireballs by dropping ex-metre whilst trying to match fireballs with it. I’d say 3 out of 4 kikoken’s you threw were ex’d; Maybe your head just isn’t in the game during the first ‘grudge match’, though.

[System_1]

nah you’re right thunder, i noticed that actually very recently that i had a habit of throwing either meaty ex kikoukens or wasting them. definately going to avoid doing that from now on. my head was in the game, i’m just a jackass

[Thunder_Sock]

It was still fun to see you teach him a few things. We can all have bad matches, be it poor focus or just real bad luck with anticipating whats coming. So, for him to barely take a win off you, and besides which his Gouki looked really terrible, thats satisfying ^^. How many random demons can that guy throw before he decides he needs to learn situations where he can land it? :wgrin:

[samma]

I thought the ranked match was really cute. It made me laugh a lot, and the sound track was awesome. I love how he fails to trip you after blocking your ultras. XD

[j0ns]

lolol I love how he’s talkin down on you as if he can do shit himself. WTF is up with them random air ex tatsus and using demon straight after filling his meter (sometimes on your wake up?) His Akuma is just straight hilarious.

[System_1]

@ alucard

He threw way too many predictable sweeps. You need to FA his sweeps when you see them coming a mile away. Be careful of the Double HK though. If you get hit by the first be sure to dash back before the second hits.

A good tactic against this kind of Akuma is to forward jump over his fireball and the second you hit the ground in front of him FA. He will inevitably try to sweep you and will eat a counter.

I love how he fails to trip you after blocking your ultras. XD

lol happened twice the first match

[Sabin]

Thanks for breaking down my matches with goofyhand, I learned some stuff from u guys on what not to do vs chun heh…
And goofyhand ggs and good to see you’re back in the scene again. Hopefully are you at evo where we don’t have 2 deal with 3 bar connection bs.

About the sim slide thing u mentioned, if I hit you at the tip of it, its very difficult to punish with anything if at all…I backdash out of counter pokes after the slide on occasion offline so I don’t think its the lag.