Like I said during Beta 1.
SFV Chun-Li players need to adopt the philosophies of USF4 Juri players.
Meaning you want to use specific set ups/punishes/situations that allow you to active V-trigger/FSE.
Much like Woshige.
It is certainly not an excuse to play her differently or go nutz whaling on every button.
What I’m trying to say is; Chun’s V-Trigger needs to be an extension of her game not the central focus and your personal play style shouldn’t change whether it is activated or not. If it is activated and you have a hit confirm then nail them hard.
SFV Chun is going to be great in the hands of people use to playing her. If you aren’t accustom to playing her in general, then you’ll likely get wrecked. Many people will pick her up thinking she’s the greatest only to get laid out.
I disagree, I think her style in v trigger and without it are very distinctive and I also think that activating v trigger into pressure or combo will always be the dominant strategy for her the same way fadc>ultra was the dominant thing for Ryu to do in sf4.
How you go about it and what specific tactics to use will get more fleshed out, but v trigger activation into pressure is imho chuns primary strategy.
An example from other games:
3s yun and Chun play very differently once they get meter versus when they don’t, in fact most of the cast does.
I think it’s kinda silly to play yun in genei Jin the same way you would if it weren’t activated, and conversely I think it’s silly to think that playing Chun the same way with v trigger as without is a good idea.
Then again the disconnect might be that I see Chun as a non pressure character/keepaway character/zoner when outside v trigger, whereas you might think of her offensively outside v trigger and thusly she simply gets better in v trigger, not something like a different character though.
I could see both approaches working. After all since v trigger only lasts so long, it might be pertinent to play a risky pre v trigger style… That will get you hit and subsequently get your v trigger faster, or will hit your opponent and get them closer to death… Kinda win/win in a weirdly logical sense.
Problem being that if you get hit and brought to half health and then use v trigger, you may simply be using v trigger to even things out and take away your opponents first half of their health bar.
It’s just theory at this point. We don’t yet know what her optimal style is, but I’m guessing that v trigger use is the crux of it, passed all other considerations.
What exactly do you mean when you say her pressure gets much stronger? AFAIK (could be wrong) she doesn’t get better frame advantage on block, loses the capacity of capitalizing on crush counters and the extra white health chip is negligible at 1 point per “shadow” hit.
She does gain more mixups with the ability to combo off overheads and f. Hk and IIRC IOH stomps, but it still doesn’t make her v trigger as changing as Necalli’s in my eyes. I personally wouldn’t waste her activation on neutral and instead use it for conversion off pokes, antiair or frame advantage upclose
Afaik she does gain more frame advantage on block.
But she doesn’t just get that, she also gets certain one hit hit confirms so that things like cr.mk xN actually becomes very scary with her throw mixup, she gains other hitstuns as well that aren’t fully explored. Like in previous pages in this thread I found that she has certain v trigger only links… Like I think v trigger cr.lk, st.mp might be a link… But maybe not, but it’s something like that.
If she doesn’t have extra frames then maybe she has more priority… Idk, all I know is that v trigger Chuns pressure tends to be harder to hit her out of, from both sides of the match in my experience.
My comment really wasn’t supposed to mean anything. Just referencing that I saw Justin do it.
If i were to actually expand on what I said it would just be to say that I would agree with you in that it’s something I didn’t even really thing about, but just happened to see Justin do also.
Basically nothing changes once Chun is in V trigger, it last forever which is great and gives you some easy mode combos but for the most part it just makes you win more. Which is never really that good. The best thing about V trigger is that it lets you random c.mp xx activate. People might be scared initially but over time people will realize that you just fight her like normal. Another nice thing is that you get it so fast and it last so long that it is basically OK to spend the first bar on a counter attack if you need it. If it did change her block data I think she would be way too good, she is already insanely good and probably has only one bad match up as is.
@JokeeBoi It sounds weird out of context, but I think he’s talking about something we would bring up in the Marvel threads a lot. Where characters like Phoenix have things like the ability to come back to life where it just helps you win faster if you were already winning (basically get a 4 character team including one that is impervious to most incoming mix ups), but if your team is getting smashed it’s not as helpful. Whereas Vergil can still smash a team even if the first 2 get creamed.
It kinda makes sense. If you’re already winning, built up V Gauge and VTC combo into V trigger, you’re going to be having a lot of momentum to win the match at that point. If you’re getting beat up and you have to pop that VTC to slow down the opponent’s jump in and AA just to get back in the game, then it’s a bit tougher to use. You can’t really activate it from far away at a deficit and expect to affect much.
This has been talked about in other threads. Basically you can cancel the last recovery/transitions frames of attacks into another attack. This apparently was in SFIV, but is more noticeable with more normals in V.
Sorry poorly translated tgs phrase, basically if you are winning a match it doesn’t really add any utility. You would still win the match with or without it because it doesn’t change your approach or tools. Move xx Activate is great but every character has that, but Chun gets almost no neutral changing effects from the trigger. Where as you look at almost any other character and something about their neutral is strengthened.
Which I think makes sense since Chun Li is already a character dominant in neutral naturally. The Trigger is more meant to expand her bnb and combo options and make her meaties stronger.
It does still technically improve her neutral a slight bit since her b+HP absorbs one hit fireballs when in V Trigger.
RIght I completely agree, you can tell she is designed to be a ground beast that if she got any benefits from her trigger it would be too much for the opponent imo.
Infact thinking about it, this is probably pre-nerf data and the bottom 30% or so of the box is missing. Because this still hits some other character’s c.MKs, and I would assume a change like that would be intended to allow c.MKs to go underneath. Probably imagine that with a chunk taken off the bottom. Important part is to notice that it gets a long hurtbox extension at the legs but the hitbox is massively disjointed at the top. The leg hurtbox is below the common s.MK height, so b.HP dominates s.MKs against most of the cast.
I think we all knew these weren’t going to be the end of the nerfs. Capcom always wants to trim first, but hopefully this is something they are just getting out of the way now so people can play the game after launch. There’s gonna be a lot of bitching if they keep changing values during the Capcom Cup season.
The nerfs don’t really bother me too much. There’s buffs in there too, not just all nerfs but people only see nerfs. They just mean you have to be a bit more careful about where you place each button, but the buttons still seem like they work. They haven’t messed with the block adv/dis on much any of the normals so I’m good with that. Long as s.MK and f+MP are still 0 on block and close stuff like b+HP and s.MP are still +2/3 on block I’m good. Throws do more stun which is a big help since it was a bit too rough trying to stun people with throws after they went down to 150. Overhead getting extra plus frame on counter hit is interesting too.
V Trigger still basically the same and has a 2 bar one so still just gonna play her to find CC b+HP’s and c.HK’s to get to it as fast as I can.
Vega got changed a lot early on also. They’re going to be particularly careful with nerfing Vega I think since he does not have a neutral reversal. Whereas Chun Li has one of the best EX reversals in the game that covers both sides of her and isn’t as obvious to punish as shoryukens. There’s going to be a significant amount of people who won’t even pick up Claw because they realize they will have to block unless they go for a V Reversal or V Trigger. A lot of people just aren’t going to be comfortable with blocking that long.
Chun Li’s anti air game is also a lot more reliable and straight forward. Which is good in a game where some characters were purposely meant to have weak AA games (Karin, Laura)