The funny thing about her in 3S is that she isnt really like anime game bs. She just has awesomely good fundamentals and crazy damage on any super.
Okay, if your definition of ācheeseā just means āreally really strongā, then I can agree, because I usually define cheese as ābraindead and abusable*ā. =p
Aside from her walkspeed thereās few things about SFV Chun that stand out, at least currently. Iām still optimistic though, and Iām almost certain Iāll be maining her.
- and no, as strong as 3S Chun is, she isnāt braindead. I donāt have that much A2 experience so itās quite possible that sheās braindead there though.
Yeah her Cr. Mk linking into Lk is interesting. Which really has me wondering if such moves like Cr.Lp will link with Cr. Hp (it did in XTk, so why not?) Worth checking out
F+Hk I didnāt actually know could link to lights, thanks for pointing that out. I can see some good things with that move. I liked it in 3S a lot.
The Kikouken V-skill idea you have seems really good. Iāve been thinking of ways to hit confirm Kikouken into Super, like 3S - but I like that idea too.
I also want to know if the Air LLegs can be done off V-Skill, that could provide some interesting pressure too.
Donāt forget B+Hk, it looks like a fantastic Anti-Air for deep jump-ins and neutral jump-ins on wake up.
Yeah b+hk looked pretty solid, but I saw her v-skill used as an anti-air too and if that is reliable then itās amazingly good.
vskill, stomp x3, ex air legsā¦ D A M A G E B O Y S
That is very interesting.
Her old st.mp is still in as a command normal. Thatās the primary thing I was worried about. As it is now though she is actually looking good.
Her v trigger is simply a damage boost but a welcome one. All her medium and hard pokes will basically hit for double damage and probably double grey damage as well.
Cr.lp linking into cr.mk is also very nice. She did have a really good AA in the e3 build though, her old close st.hk was AAing everything it looked like, and from angles it really shouldnāt have.
So thereās obviously some hitbox weirdness going on with the move. Which is why Iām not sure about being hyped about it because I canāt believe that it would stay that way.
But if it does then it gives chun some solid damage from AA especially in v trigger.
Three whole days, only 6 characters in the game and Chun Li was barely even seen after day one. Sheāll probably be top tier in this game.
I kind of wish she still had the old forward jumping HP where you decide whether itāll be 1 or 2 hits or can alter the timing of it as part of a jump-in mixup. Iāll also miss the ability to juggle from it, which raises the question: if people were saying her CA can juggle then what moves are allowing her to juggle with it?
Vesper thinks Chun is the worst character in the game.
29:30
Not surprising. The only 2 characters in the game so far that arenāt very mix up/setup heavy (at least not yet) are Ryu and Chun Li so itās not surprising people are going to think lower of them. A character like Chun who has so many different normals and changes to them will take a while to flesh out in the meta. She works like a V ism Alpha 3 character where all of your close normals are now command normals and you have to figure out where to use them now that you can use them in neutral at times. Certain normals that were standard are now command normals also.
That 3 day beta tierlist
The lack of hard knockdowns in the e3 build pretty much takes out the oki game unless people opted not to tech rise. The meta we saw developing during e3 was heavy footsies, throw baits, and frame traps. With OS crouch tech being gone (at least in the form of SF4) it made throws much stronger, which opened up more ways to land throw baits and frame traps due to longer throw whiff recovery. Not sure hard knockdowns will be a thing later in development but I certainly donāt want to see them due to the high damage output of the game.
Chun command normals are pretty straight forward and you can tell what purpose theyāre used for pretty early on. Chunās normals in general are very similar to her 3S counter part and can be used accordingly. I think thereās still untapped potential with Chun-Li with her V-Trigger and Combofiend was telling us she had some crazy combos with it. Outside of a CH though, I donāt recall a good way to combo into V-Trigger for big damage unlike Bison, Ryu, Cammy, and Nash. That kind of made the other characters stand out more than her, imo. Her V-Trigger is strong since it can make unsafe normals, such as her df+Strong, safe or plus because of the additional hits it receives in V-Trigger. Itās not as straight forward as say Cammyās V-Trigger so thereās still a lot of room for experimentation.
Her V-trigger seems a bit reminiscent of V-ism from A3. I wonder, do the extra hits add more advantage? If so, we can probably expect to see combo links that arenāt normally possible.
I think b+hp x activate could combo into something, was pretty sure I saw combofiend try it but messed it up
I dropped chun after vanilla because I actually got scared of all the mixup characters I saw coming out. Thatās why I main switched to ibuki. I didnāt think that chun had what it takes to be as competitive as some of the mixup characters out there. After that I dropped the entire game 3 years later because I was extremely dissatisfied with everything streetfighter 4. From the online to the divekicks to the flamekicks to the crouch techs I had had enough.
In my chun li phase I was never quite able to shake the feeling that chun had developer issues with them overrating certain aspects of the character. There seemed to be a lot of āpotentialā in the character but all she really seemed to be at the end of the day was āpotentialā she seemed mid tier at best and then only if you put in some major work. I wasnāt just on the outside looking in either. One of my playing buddies at the time, shizza basically thought the same thing. Heās still the only chun to make it to evo top 8. Him and I played against the same people as well as each other, all the time. To say I wasnāt on his level would be an understatement of epic proportions.
But during my time playing as chun and my time talking with and playing against and watching shizza, I felt I came to know the character pretty well, what her problems were, what her strengths were, how she could realistically be played against top players, etc.
Right now from watching footage of her in sf5 I feel basically the same. One of her many problems was that she didnāt excel in any category besides decent pokes/walkspeed. And even then, other characters that were good in that category were simply better, at least at higher levels. This made her fall back on her fireball to play against good pokers, the problem there was her fireball was one of the worst āgoodā fireballs in the game. She certainly couldnāt use it to beat the likes of sagat or ryu. And trying to use it to beat the likes of good rogs or bisons was dubiousā¦ So in the end you were trying to rely on 2 sets of somewhat mediocre tools.
I feel like this new sf5 chun, barring awesome tech like 3s chun cr.mk xx sa2, has the same issues as vanilla sf4 chun. Capcom seems very hesitant to make her good. Perhaps this is because of her track record in previous games of being very good, perhaps not.
But when I see this version of chun she once again seems like more like a theory fighter queen and the word āpotentialā seems to be the most appropriate buzzword to use to describe her.
Right now the only theory potential she actually has, sans some easy damage we donāt know about, is in her no range v trigger (acknowledging that her v trigger has no range as compared to just about everyone elseās is important in my mind) and her seemingly super gimmicky v skill.
I really hope that that assessment is incorrect, but seeing as to how she seems like 3s chun without sa2 and sf4 chun in general I donāt see how it could be given that we know about both those characters very well. The thing that could make her better in this game is the games mechanics. No hard knockdown bodes well for her. But her only reversal requiring both meter and charge is also REALLY bad for her. She no longer has a spammable backdash that lest her slip out of pressure. She will have to be more active on defense now. A good thing because seeing chuns that never went for anti airs in sf4 was soooo disappointing.
Iām still quite interested in playing her again now that vortex is gone in general and since sheās gotten a damage buff via the systemwide mechanics, but I still think capcom needs to think about how they are designing her and stop being afraid of making a strong chun. A simple further damage buff could be all she needs to be a really good, yet still fair character.
Itās to early to say for sure of course right now. But those are my thoughts.nand judging from all the buffs chun got from vanilla to ultraā¦ I was right about her way back then.
Itās a new game thatās not realistically out yet. Hard to make any sweeping judgments on characters when the game doesnāt really have any substantially long used meta around it.
I do agree that having no real reversal without meter can be an issue, but weāll have to see how useful V Reversals are for loosening up that pressure and if some characters use their EX meter inoften enough where itās not bad to spend on a reversal. Part of her being really strong in 3S was she has parries to help compensate for her otherwise iffy reversal game. In Alpha 2 you of course had alpha counters.
The game being more mid rangey than SFIV I say helps Chun out a lot. The idea right now is just to play characters that have slower walk speeds but just have more mix up centric stuff and combos into V trigger when they get in. Itās just with the game being more centered around that mid range pressure and not almost guaranteed vortex stuff, I think that gives room for Chun Li to be that character that can stuff a lot of those options as people get better with her neutral game.
Iāve heard stuff about Momochi already finding some really nasty combos in her V Trigger that were supposedly edited out of his videos.
Yep, I could be wrong. I honestly hope I am. I want to use her again but I donāt need the frustration that was vanilla chun.
And as far as combo technology goes, that is the most fleeting technology that there is. Never forget super streetfighter 4 gen aka yeb aka donāt get hit by st.mk unless you want to die.
Nerfing combos is one of the easiest balance adjustments to make.
My biggest problem with EX SBK is the fact she so easily gets hit out of it in SF4 and SFxTK
In 3S it was at itās best for sure, especially because it moved her slightly forward.
Iād personally prefer if they just dropped it and gave her the Alpha upkicks, but make it a DP motion - which will never happen.
Pipe dreams aside, I wish theyād opt for motions based Kikoukens.
considering so many of her good normals are command normals like B+Mp (which isnāt cancelableā¦WTF!!!)
Her best noted poke in SF5 is not cancelable is like a punch in the face to all Chun players
But Needing to be mobile in the footsie game IN a clearly more offensive game, when are you going to have charge for Kikouken?
If you have Cammy going in and going nuts on you keeping charge for even ExSBK will be hard personally.
Iām very much looking forward to maining her again, Iām basically an online warrior anyway so I donāt have to worry about my fight money.
Besides at this point Iām used to working my butt off and basically having to play perfect to Win.
Seriously sometimes I look my stick and say āWell, I literally couldnāt have played that match any better, IN the moment of playing it and I still lost sooooā¦Next game letās go!ā
-Edit-
Iāve been thinking and I really hope this work, perhaps someone can confirm if theyāve seen it or not.
Say you simply pressure with Cr. Lp, Cr. Mk (on block) you hit V-Skill off Cr. MK which if it hits will knock the opponent aerial at that distance as seen in footage, but say it is still on block you cancel into Air LLegs. This should add some much need pressure and give people the opportunity to perform something else next time like for example again one stomp, into TC HP? The list can actually go on and on.
Add in Skatanās though Cr.Mk xx Kikouken - V-skill xx Stuff
Regarding reversals, it should be pointed out that Bisonās only invul move is super, Nashās are Super, and possibly V-trigger, and Birdie has an invul super, an armored normal, and non-invul command throws (at least thatās what combofiend said, people were having trouble pressuring him)
Having a fully invul move with one bar, even if it does require charge* currently puts her mid-tier regarding wakup options, not ācrappyā as she would be SFIV without her amazing backdash.
Regarding Chun in general, I do remember Azrael posting about talking with a developer, who told him that they tended to be fairly careful with Chun, because sheād been so good in both 3s and alpha, and her playstyle doesnāt match what combofiend thinks in fun, so heās not likely to go to bat for her.
On the other hand, itās obvious that sheās got a pretty big overhall since her reveal, and she kind of seems āin progressā, I expect her to be quite different in the next build, let alone by release.
Lastly, I want to see video of the damn karathrow UltraChen kept talking about, nobody ever seemed to actually do it.
*Also, charge times seem obviously faster, at least for scissor kicks and Kikoukens, I guess sbk could be different.
Her both her vskill and her vtrigger alone seem mediocreā¦But taken togetherā¦there might be some insane mixup potential if your really think about itā¦likeā¦insaneā¦of course its all theory fighting right now.
Ive seen her sf4 jump forward HPx2. Its still a target combo and not a 2-in-1 right?