Chun Li General Thread: Blue Jade

Our situation is indeed Testicular as Mr Jesse Pinkman from Breaking bad would say it.

  • Character is not commonly used so not enough people will whine about her.
  • No house hold names in the community uses her so Capcom have a less of an incentive to buff. You can bet your life that Daigo and Infiltration factored in Ryu and Nash getting buffed. Capcom have to appeal to these marquee personalities.
  • There is a history of the character being top tier so people will resent her if she even got close to what she once was.
  • I am convinced that the machine that rallied up the hate toward the character in S1 wouldn’t ever plead for her to get buffed again, notice how everyone was crying about Nash and Ryu but no one says much about Chun-Li despite her doing significantly worse than the previous seasons than they did. Bonchan did better at TOPANGA than any Chun main.
  • She is not a very hype or explosive character so she doesn’t bring the views.

We have nothing backing us up, just gotta work with what we have. I have accepted her as how she is and it is just what it is. Now my Choice to play Mika and Kolin to cover the insane matchups is that much more justified.

Every time i watch Chun Li on stream i see people commenting like:ā€œChun is easily top 10ā€ or some bs like that. Gets me salty each time.

Chun still has things that are very good, but the problem is that those good things don’t make a character good at the actual game. Therefor she’s garbage.

There are reasons to use her sure. You can use her while losing. But there is no reason to use her while trying to win. It’s like trying to win with a handicap.

I still main her and will continue to play as her. (One, my SFV id name is Chun-Li_Forever, so I’m kinda trapped by using her, in addition to loving her character so much). ButI just have the most fun playing as her. I guess from a casual fan like myself, where I don’t care about ranking up or winning, and all I play for is fun, then Chun-Li is a fun character to pplay. But if your goal is to win and ascend the ranks, there are definitely better characters.

There arent enough cry babies weeping for Chun as there were for the shotos, Nash, etc. So they still think, oh since no one is complaining about Chun, she must be still good.

I also feel the community treats the male and female characters differently. There is more crying when the top tier is female, and when the bottom tier is male.

What is most absurd is the fact that Chun is this "poke monster"
But when you fight certain characters in SFV such as: Urien, Fang, Rashid, Balrog, Guile and a few others.
They out poke her severally. I’ve never seen so many counter hits fly in my opponent’s favor and naturally just like FADC before Crush Counters - other characters utilize the mechanic more efficiently than Chun. So once again one of the games main mechanics, my girl doesn’t get much out of it aside from the St. Hk corner trick - but I’ve never done it in a match - not once!

Laura gets a ton of mileage out of Crush Counters and I’ve discovered that Ibuki can score decently but really she suffers about as a bad as Chun.

Well I could play Chun Li and probably go up till Silver since I find her the most fun character in the sense that I feel I’m actually playing the game and making my own screw ups that I’ve nothing else to blame for. But I will not, since I feel that would be participating in sending a message to Capcom that she’s still OK. If this is supposed to be a competitive game, I really don’t see the point of a low tier heavy execution character with little reward in the long term, and whose future is very dependent on the whims of the internet which can literally trash all your training in one ā€œbalanceā€ patch.

I do find too that Chun’s footsie and poking game is somewhat unreliable, though when you start to get the in-the-zone feeling it’s fun. Probably the funnest time of the game I’ve experienced so far.

What gets me is people saying Chun is linear and them arguing at the same time Chun has so many tools. The fact she appears linear is because she does NOT have a lot of functional tools. No cross-ups to speak of and practically no overheads, and short throw range because she’s fast. But I still hear people referring to df.MK and df.HK as her moves to get the job done, and V-Skill being good(?!). I think I’ve seen the overhead being used only once in a ranked match and yet nobody watching bats an eye why that is so, and df.HK I have never seen being used in a match. But she’s certainly not the only character with a tool set that’s missing a tool or two.

The worst thing is that those moves could work if they were just adjusted slightly.

I think the only time i have ever seen Df.HK hit (literally never seen it in SFV) in Sf4 was a really wonky set up that valmaster used where i believe it was an unblockable, and that was all the way back in AE 2012 times, maybe exaggerating on never seeing it hit in SFV, but i really can’t remember ever seeing it happen lol, people just have no problem blocking it i guess. And Df Mk, in chandlers words, could it BE any slower?

@Mikaido - well put on trashing training and community Chun hate

Reminds me of the first time we all saw Ryu v Chun and everyone flipped over the Kikouken Spam in vtrigger
Yet its okay if Guile can do the same thing in the final game…no one cares.

you can land Df.Mk all day against dumb players who can’t block, but if you try it against high level or the more likely button mashers - you just get beat out or blocked and then punished
I’m actually thoroughly impressed by how well people block Df. Hk in SFV versus 4; you could usually catch people off guard with it in 4.
Over heads that are super slow like Chun’s, Ibuki’s you can just tap them out of it so easily and other characters have brain dead over heads that are faster it’s really annoying

all wound licking aside if you play a perfect game you’ll do well with Chun, the problem is maintaining the perfect play throughout the whole set let alone the whole tournament. If you get down on the life lead you have to take more risks to make the comeback happen the faster you’ll get killed.

Ibuki has like top 3 crush counters in the game. F+hk is one of he the only truly safe on block, ranged crush counters in the game that can stuff lows and for the range it’s pretty OD the solid follow ups you can get off of it.

s.HK is more situational, but Xian used it quite often to win Final Round and if you land it anywhere inside of max range you basically get a boat load of damage and standing reset 50/50 after.

Having watched many top players at this game that the highest level, I’ve come to the conclusion that Chun is definitely viable, even now… but the problem is… what makes her viable is really really hard to do:

You HAVE to be able to hitconfirm her cr.mk into ex legs, and you HAVE to be able to hitconfirm CH fmp into ex legs.

You look at high level Karin and cammy players and they can confirm the cr.mk. This is something that no Chun is really doing ATM. Yes there are Chuns that occasional,y confirm cr.mk into super… but that doesn’t do the most damage and it doesn’t setup chuns post knockdown mixup game as well either.

I think this may be where capcom sees Chun as good. Because I think we can all agree that if we as Chun players got both of those confirms to like an 80% success rate, Chun would definitely move up the tier list. Something else very good about Chun that not that many people are doing is her ex legs oki into a DELAYED button… go1 was using this a lot at final round iirc and he was making very good success with it (maybe not at final round, can’t remember the exact tournie it was)

But I know for a fact that I just don’t have that raw reactive ability to do those one hit confirms. I’ve tried.

If you can’t do those confirms I think Chun is easy bottom 5.

Another thing Chun players NEED to do is AA with BHK. We all have basically been spoiled by st.lk into crossunder mixups in season one. But now with st.lk nerfed it makes BHK a much more attractive option since it does much more damage.

Chun is unfortunately a character that just has very mediocre options. Her jump is bad, and that’s bad in a game where jumping is so important. She has an anti throw move (her fhk) but for whatever reason it doesn’t seem to work well, whereas ibukis overhead is GREAT for going over throws, like akumas fhp.

A buff that Chun could use would be fhk being +3 on regular hit. Then she could actually use the move, or make fhk immune to throws in frame 1. Back in the day when I was experimenting with it a lot, it would either get blocked, or I would get thrown out of the startup since it’s not throw invincible till frame 6 or 7.

I couldn’t find the timing where I could do it delayed and go over their throw, or fast and have it still look like a throw timing.

I tried doing it as fast as possible after a blocked cr.lp… the opponents never fell for that. I tried doing it about 3 frames delayed… they still didn’t fall for it. I tried delaying it by like 6 frames or so and I always got thrown out of it. So that leaves iall but that functions in much the same way but is slightly more ambiguous since the iall jump is unthrowable on frame 1 of jump startup, and now it’s simply a bad move. So that leaves us with stagger pressure. But Chuns stagger pressure isn’t the greatest because her st.mp is a very fast confirm into cr.mk (maybe I should try st.mp link into ex legs hmmmm! Since it’s an easy confirm for Mika (I took Mika into training mode to test out that confirm and it’s dogshit easy) so maybe it is with Chun as well since ex legs is one frame faster than cr.mk) but outside that, Chun just doenst have combo starters that are plus on block that don’t move her very far out of range and that’s a problem. If I could just CH fmp confirm into ex legs almost all of these problems vanish. That gives Chun a ranged threat that would seriously make her opponents clam up big time since fmp has range and is super high priority and since Chun can easily move back or forward on block and make the situation after the fmp very ambiguous as to what the opponent should do. And if the opponentclams up that gives Chun the ability to walk in on her opponents like how cammy and Karin do since people are scared of being tagged with their cr.mk confirms.

Chun is just basically designed badly now. She either needs easier ways to blow up throw techs, easier ways to confirm from range, or her moves need slightly less pushback on block.

But the way she is now it’s just to hard with her inherent problems.

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Ok guys leet ā€œtechā€ here. This is a season 2 buff for Chun that seems to have gone unnoticed…
This by itself may lead to Chun going slight up in the tiers as it will more than likely make chuns aggressive stagger pressure much better:

St.mp,cr.lk xx ex legs!

I just tried out the theory from the above post and though it is definitely possible to st.mp confirm link into ex legs, it takes a bit of concentration.

However, Chun has st.mp, confirm and link into cr.lk ex legs. If the st.mp is blocked Chun can do good ol rog stagger pressure and walk up and st.mp again… this is like how smug walks up with st.hk all day with rog, or how phenom walks up with st.mk all day with necalli.

So why not just do st.mp,cr.mk autopilot confirm into ex legs?

Because Chun gets pushed further back out of aggression range, and because she loses her turn at -2 cr.mk.

With this strat Chun can do a very easy 1 hit confirm into cr.lk xx ex legs on hit, or a walkup throw/shimmy/st.mp on block.

She didn’t have this in season 1 because cr.lk wasn’t cancelable into ex legs.

The only problem with this is that the cr.lk will wiff on standing opponents (so learn to confirm the st.mp) and also that the st.mp needs to be kinda deep for the cr.lk to link. However it doesn’t have to be absolutely point blank… and that’s good.

So what say you guys? Good tech or not? Anyone already using this? I haven’t seen the top players use this at all.

@ā€œDevilJin 01ā€

-edit woohoo #2

If you can get good at anticipating counterhits here, Chun can do CH st.mp,cr.hp xx lk legs, cr.lk xx exlegs for 272 freaking damage!

Sounds good in theory. Haven’t seen too many players use it myself, although I wouldn’t be surprised if 4 or 5 months from now the tournament Chuns that are left start using it eventually. It’s definitely something I could see Nuki or MOV using.

I may take her for a spin and see how it works out. It gives her options at close range she didn’t have before, which may be all I need to make her upclose game actually scary and may funnel into all other aspects of her close range game.

This seems like it finally solidifies one of her major weaknesses from season regarding up close pressure.

God… how good would this be if she didn’t have stupid fmp and only had bmp… wow.

Ooooh ok… I’m starting to see her now.

She also has MAX RANGE CH cr.lp,cr.mk xx ex legs as an easy confirm. And she also has up close CH cr.lp,bhp xx ex legs as an easy confirm. Note that after a blocked cr.lp,bhp she can walk in for a CH max range CH cr.lp,cr.mk xx exlegs confirm.

The moral of the story is that chuns confirm range gets MUCH bigger when counterhits are taken into consideration.

So basically in a nutshell my theory on this game is that it works a lot like guilty gear. It’s all about confirms and poke setups and counterhits and using differing blockstrings. All of the confirms I just pointed out are VERY strong, and Chun wiht her good walkspeed can make them even better.

But the general theory that I have about the game in general and this applies to Chun as well… probably more than other characters is that your plus on block moves setup an easy 2 way mixup:

  1. Walk forward and re engage ( this is where pressure comes from, the opponent will have to press a button to stop this, or jump away or backdash etc etc… they have to do something to stop you)
  2. or, you can instead go for a frame trap from your plus on block moves, and since it’s a frame trap, it’s a very high likelihood that your opponent will be counterhit and THATS where chuns stagger pressure can shine and very likely where her up close power lies since her counterhit confirms add range onto her confirm game.

As an easy example, you do cr.lp,bhp if the cr.lp hits on CH then the bhp links and the ex legs ender is an easy confirm. But if the cr.lp, is blocked, then the bhp hits as a CH, it’s also an easy confirm into ex legs off the CC. And if the entire string is blocked Chun has the option of doing a pushout back to neutral with bmp…and if that counterhits she can once again confirm into ex legs (if you leet, I’m not with that confirm) but she can also instead of doing bmp, just walk forward and max range cr.lp, cr.mk and if that CH on the cr.lp, the cr.mk will combo and it’s an easy confirm into ex legs.

That’s a lot of confirm opportunities when you throw in forward walk pressure staggers.

So even if it’s only theory, it’s something that every Chun player should be practicing and trying to incorporate because when you combine that with chuns neutral this can be very good. It won’t be as strong cammy or Karin upclose stuff, but it should pump Chun up since she has a good neutral.

Mixing up her pokestrings and setting up wiff punishes with cr.mk buffer ex legs after a blocked pokestring like what punk was doing with Nash to flashmetroid, is also something that chuns will start to need to learn to do.

And a great setup for wiff buffer cr.mk ex legs is to do a near max range fmp on block… lots of characters like to press something after that since Chun isn’t plus.

Good stuff dude, keep it up. Appreciate you putting in thought into developing Chun rather than getting hung up on all the nerf talk lately. .

Hmmm… just lost to a decent urien 10-6 in a first to 10.

I really need to work on my stagger strings. Idk what they feed the gold players in Australia but this player was doing jump back tech os, using his v reversal once or twice a round (I was getting jiggy with the pressure) but at the end of the day I couldn’t hit the stagger walking st.mp on hit and was just getting outdamaged… I’d outplay him 2/1 then some random shit would hit me.

Chuns walking stagger pressure feels kinda weak because of having to go neutral before doing st.mp… same with backfierce… it adds on like a frame or 2 to the startup of my pressure strings when walking forward. Of course I could just do the move earlier, but that reduces range.

After playing this set that’s probably my biggest gripe and something that really hampers the pressure. This guy like never stopped pressing buttons but I could rarely CH him. Good player but spazzy as shit with the yolo headbutts and a dash pattern that consisted of dashing forward then back or back then forward… made it hard to space correctly. I anti aired him like it was my job but chuns st.lk does like no damage.

Since I haven’t played Chun in quite awhile I was missing stuff as well… missed a few crucial v trigger combos… was doing resets against him but then he started to mash buttons in my v trigger…
So I set him up and did v pop hit cr.hp xx lk legs,cr.lp and instead of doing dash throw or overhead, I did BHP knowing I would CC a button… but wouldn’t you know that st.hp came out instead and I ate a mashed cr.hp

So all in all I came away with this:

Chuns stagger pressure is real (he was v r versaling me all day) but she’s still a character that does to little damage. Granted I managed to not confirm any CH cr.lp,cr.mk combos as I wasn’t concentrating fully the 2 out of 10 times on average that they would hit… but I digress. You gotta play her perfect even with the stagger pressure.

I’m really down about how much st.mp having to be neutral and bhp having to be back really kills her walking stagger pressure… the motions add probably around 3 frames of startup to the moves on average.

Oh yeah, got thrown out of my fhk a bunch of times as well. Hit him with it too, but it feels fucking bad getting thrown out of my anti throw move. I guess they didn’t want Chun using it like a reversal to get away from throws… is all I can think of.

I guess I’m going to have to start incorporating iall into my offense at certain points to keep the flowchart late tech/jump tech os from just dominating her up close.

Feelsbadman

You should be able to link EX legs after St. MP. I do St. MP into EX peach all the time with Mika, also do CH crMK into ex peach.

I am sure with some practice I might be able to link the St. MP into EX legs from stray hits, gotta see if that have any value.

I like that people are still trying to find things to help Chun, but I’ve been doing all this stagger pressure, confirms and delayed buttons for a while now and the problem is still that the payout for doing this stuff (spending meter most of the time as well, when even her meter building ability got worse) is still severely mismatched against the more popular characters of season 2. Once it gets to slightly higher level, no one is really that afraid of it because she can’t hurt you that much or truly force a guess (without worrying about a mashed light into their own confirm). Most opponents know when it’s their turn and will interrupt accordingly or let you push yourself out (which is not going to take long due to the pushback on her normals). So when you guess correctly on offense and open them up, you’re really only going to match what the other characters can do if your 2nd followup mixup is also correct.

I played a couple of friends last night (Balrog and Kolin) and the major difference besides damage output and more health to work with on their part, is that they have way more tools to make you second-guess what you’re about to do to fend them off… even in neutral. Balrog has the same throw range as Chun, but he still has a jab -> throw without moving forward and technically has the threat of a throw loop because he can get a full meaty CC st. HK after throw -> dash on quickrise. This is the closest thing Chun gets to a throw loop (in the corner) and even that doesn’t work versus all wakeup jabs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey1AqmWKWbc

Kolin is not as heavy-handed as Balrog, but she also has jab -> throw without moving (and the threat of the frame trap after the jab which is important to mention… but no throw loop AFAIK), plenty of knockdown setups people are discovering and those counter moves on deck means you have to be more careful and think differently with your buttons vs her. Also has another momentum changing v-trigger that is a free dash-in mixup on block (she can counter your v-reversal, so watch out) and more potent than Chun’s v-trigger imo. Her moveset does make her more susceptible to throws in general though.

The lopsidedness is obvious and I’ve come to terms with it (maybe… I did just go on a rant about Rog in a private chat lol), and I’m still gonna play Chun and keep working at it, so I’ll leave a couple of things here for post-knockdown vs quickrise if you’re fishing for confirms:

-After CC B+HP, cancel into HK legs, dash x 2, and you can do either meaty throw, meaty st. MP, OR another meaty B+HP and repeat the process.

-After EX Legs or SBK knockdown, do HP Kikoken -> dash -> on block you are at +4 advantage after the dash, so you can get CH F+MP and link into EX Legs or CH B+HP etc. if they stick out a button (this works out a lot for me because people don’t know when Kikoken is actually + or - on block and like to disrespect an attempt to check them with st. MP or HP after a dash). On hit, the fireball is a meaty counter hit, so you can convert off of that as you see fit.

-If you land CC st. HK or st. HP xx VTC -> V-skill, stomp x 3, j. HP (2 hits), land, air EX Legs -> you will usually be right near the corner after this, so do dash then st. HK (this is auto-timed to beat 3f standing normals and get that huge crush counter corner juggle… otherwise, using B+HP instead if you think they will be crouching is more reliable… but less reward after).

Hey folks. Hope that you experts don’t mind a question or two from a casual player. I’m starting to work on adding a Chun-Li to my Birdie in SFV. Sure she’s been nerfed, but I’m a casual Bronze player and I just play who I like so that doesn’t really bug me any.

My main question is, I was looking at a list of Season 2 combos the list seemed (reasonably so) aimed at getting max damage and providing a lot of various options for punishes / jump-ins / light BnBs. From the casual perspective would anyone mind pointing out which of these combos might be the easiest execution wise? Or which ones might have less damaging but easier variants? Since I’m honestly never going to spend a ton of time in the training room I’m always looking for the easiest and most reliable ways to get damage out. I’m never trying to learn any corner / character specific combos or aiming for max damage all the time. Just want the simple stuff and I’m fine with giving up a bit of damage or safety to do that.

And the second question. What is the situation on AAs for Season 2 Chun-Li? Bronze ranks are jump-in city, so that’s the one thing that I really want to have nailed before I start going online.

Thanks in advance for any help!