Yeah people don’t mind honesty, but when you are too honest, like oppressively honest people hate that too.
That’s characters like CVS2 Sagat, Blanka, Cammy, 3S Chun, A2 Rose, SFV Cammy would be there too if her buttons were any better…characters that just have fundamentals that are so OD that no matter how well you fundamentally play, they’re just going to out button you any way. People hate being out buttoned almost as they hate being outplayed by setplay.
I too was very upset with Chun’s lack of anti-air, mostly because every character i ever played in fgames aways had a solid AA option. But the lack of a good anti-air actually made me look hard into what the pros were doing, and from them i learned to dash/walk under jumps, do air-to-airs, hit their prejump frames, and…well, block the jumps. And those techniques keep being useful even if you have a good anti-air, so i think the experience is quite helpful in the end.
I mean it all really boils down to whether you have a fair chance to run your game/fight back. If a character basically never lets you in (top-tier footsies/zoning characters) or they can constantly put you in a situation where the risk is you either losing a ton of health or being put right back into a bad guessing situation that’s greatly in their favor (top-tier rushdown/setplay characters) then it’s natural to hate that imo, because you’re not really getting to play (unless you can run an equally effective or better gameplan). People complain usually because whatever limitations are set on their chosen character(s), won’t allow them to check those kinds of things effectively. Makes a lot of sense to me to hear people be vocal about both even if it represents two different styles.
I still don’t understand why designers still seem to be so bad at getting the right amount of effective tools for each character, so that the most amount of people can have fun/a fighting chance without having to resort to picking someone who might not be that appealing (other than their chances of winning). It always ends up with a handful or characters with way too much and/or a handful with way too little and I’m like “how do they not notice this?”… Other than the obvious ploys to make “pay to win” DLC, I don’t get why they insist on keeping a gap between good characters and bad ones (or why bad characters even exist).
I think Xrd is the closest to getting it right for me, because everyone has some scary/effective tools to run with and the universal mechanics in addition to that allows you to check the BS as long as you have meter and the right read. The top is a bit more effective/rewarded for what they do, but I don’t see the same type of hopelessness for the characters below them like I do for the lower tiers in other games.
I know. I most of the time caught myself staring at the screen when the jump in comes, hand dead center on the stick. Played a short while as Ryu to figure out if it was that my reactions were that poor or if it was something else. Turned out I have plenty of time to react, hitting shoryuken is just way easier. I guess it has more to do with me needing to see the jump trajectory for some frames to see if they are neutral jumping or jumping in, and if they are jumping in what’s the intercept point, and then trying to decide what to do next.
The annoyance with air to air is that it seems more character and jump height dependent. I tried that in Casuals, jumping early, hitting and then promptly ate a sweep and went to mix-ups since the opponent recovered earlier. Oh well. My mistake of going there and not having the EX bar for air legs to force a knockdown. Don’t get me wrong, I’d actually like to go air-to-air when I can, but so far it hasn’t been as rewarding as I hoped. Chun indeed has pretty good air-to-air combos that actually do some damage, it’s that I wouldn’t like to get in actual disadvantage after landing that. Neutral reset would already be fine for me.
I didn’t know Chun was that hated, but I don’t get why the hate carries over to a new installment of the series. Different movesets and all that. The other esports type competitive game I’m playing is Blood Bowl 2, and coming from there, the hate towards other characters seems really off-putting. I guess it’s because you’ll have to invest more time in learning the single character in fighting games and not having enough time to know the match ups and then losing lopsided. Everybody switches teams once in a while in Blood Bowl and experience what it feels like on the other end and the commentary and development suggestions seem way more balanced.
Speaking of movesets, I figured the Season 1 iALL stuff was related to people holding back down and Chun not having a way around it? Yes I know there is the down forward medium kick but that move is really not very good (it’s slow and I think it’s easier to react to whole character moving than just arms or legs moving) in getting through there. By limiting the Chun’s moveset Capcom effectively enforced people to go to i.ALL as the only viable option hence you get “every Chun plays the same way!”
If you played the modern SF games and hate Chun Li but think Cammy is ok then you are a retard
I don’t mind Chun having wonky anti airs if her ground game was as dominant or fruitful as Karin’s but nope. I do think that footsie character should have some wonky AAs though. No character should have perfect control over the ground and air.
Do you agree with Ricky:
Ricki Ortiz: '[Urien] definitely needs a little bit of nerfing for sure’
by Daniel Rosen Kristine Hutter 5d ago
For Ricki Ortiz, the offseason brought nerfs to her signature character, Chun-Li, and gave her a chance to square off against some of the game’s new OP picks.
So, you were one of the strongest, if not the strongest Chun-Li player in the world in Season 1. Do you think you still hold that title?
I definitely think so at the moment yes. I think Chun-Li as a character is a little harder to play now, so I think that a lot of the previous Chun-Li players might switch and not play her.
I’m still going to play her in certain matchups, and I’m also thinking of picking up Cammy on the side for the matchups that got a little bit harder for Chun-Li. I used to think that she didn’t have any bad matches, but now she has quite a few because of all the nerfs she got, and a bunch of other characters got buffed. So, yeah, but I think I’ll still continue to play her, and hopefully I’ll still be the best with her.
What do you think of the new CPT format?
I definitely like the new format, because I definitely think it’s more simple, and awards more points for people who are consistent. Ultimately, you should award the most consistent players overall.
I think that even if the points system isn’t always a little askew, people complain about regional qualifiers and how you get regional points and global points, I think ultimately, the same 32 people will still make it. other than maybe one or two. I think the only players who wouldn’t have made it last year if the points system was only global points — I think it was only Sako who wouldn’t make it unfortunately. But everyone else would. It’s pretty much the same, but I definitely like the awarding system overall now, and I think that’s pretty good.
How do you feel about the SFV ELEAGUE Invitational?
So that is actually something that’s new to me. I’ve never done an event like that. I think it’s pretty awesome and it’s pretty fresh, it’s something new and I think it’s going to be a success. The one they did for Mortal Kombat was extremely good, and hopefully this one will be just as good if not better and it’s also a great prize with great competition. It should be fun.
Is it a good idea to keep trying to put Street Fighter on TV?
I definitely consider it good, I think Street Fighter, to me personally, it’s a beautiful game. Once you understand it and understand all the little nuances of the game, I think everyone will love the game. It’s extremely fun and so exciting to watch, especially Street Fighter V. It’s one of the most exciting Street Fighters for sure, because it’s a very explosive game. It’s hard to stay consistent at it, and it makes every player have to play extra hard to stay at their best and win an event.
I think the more that Street Fighter will be televised on national TV will only make it more successful. It will only do good to have it on TV, so hopefully it catapults it somewhere to A-tier, somewhere like Dota or League of Legends hopefully.
A lot of people have been pegging a few characters as the strongest right now, namely Urien, Laura, Balrog — do you think that’s the case?
Yeah. But you don’t see too many players switching characters because I feel like in the newer Street Fighter games it’s harder to jump around between characters because you have to learn so many matchups and I think that’s something that players definitely don’t want to learn.
A lot of players are sticking to the same characters they’re playing. personally, I think Urien is the best character in the game, but you don’t really see a lot of Urien players, you see the Urien players who played him before are still playing him, and there’s only a couple who switched over, like Nemo, who won the Topanga league. he played Vega before, but Vega isn’t too great, so I can understand the switch. Definitely just because the character is top tier, it’s not going to make me want to switch. Even in Season 1, I still played Cammy on the side a little bit, and I will continue to play her a little bit, she was good, but I played her regardless.
Which characters do you think might be hidden top tiers right now? Who are the strong characters that are flying under the radar?
Rashid is extremely strong. He’s the main one. And I also think Chun-Li is really strong in this game too right now. I think they nerfed her quite a bit, but I also think that within time, and with knowledge of the game, the new characters, the matchups, I definitely think once the game is developed a little bit more, I think she’ll be top tier again. She has everything to be a top tier character, she has movement, she has speed, she has normals, she has decent damage, she has a great super, high damaging air-to-airs and her anti-air might not be so great any more but if you’re playing consistently, if you’re extremely sharp and you have all the matchups down, anti-airing shouldn’t a problem for you.
What do you think is the most important talent or skill that a player needs to have in order to play competitively?
I definitely think it’s adapting and understanding what your opponent is doing. Pretty much when you play in a match in a tournament, you’re only playing best two out of three. Anyone can lose two out of three. It doesn’t matter how good or how bad you are, especially in Street Fighter V, anyone can win. So you have to be able to adapt to your opponent within one round. This game only allows that window, because if you get knocked down, it could culminate in the death of your character. So you have to be able to be on your toes and adapt to situations like that.
What would you want to see in a new balance patch?
I would definitely like to see them give a little bit of stuff back to Chun-Li. I’m not asking for too much, just a little bit. Give me a little bit of damage. I said previously if they were going to nerf her, they could nerf her anti-air, because that was extremely good. Her standing heavy punch was extremely good and her TK-legs was extremely good. I’d say you could take away one or two of those things, but if you take away all three of them, then you kind of limit her, those three moves are what made her good. I’d say that V-Reversal is extremely cheap, so they can leave that the way it is. But I definitely think she should still have TK-legs. Because, the way she worked before, she had a too strong defense and a too strong offense.
The way she is now, they took away her defense by taking away her anti-air, and they took away her offense by taking away TK-legs. So she has no real way to open a player up, so she’s kind of stuck in Street Fighter limbo, where she kind of like, is trying to attack but not really, and trying to be defensive but I can’t be that defensive because I can’t anti-air too well, so I have to be like super, super sharp.
So if they could give her just one tool back, I think she’d be the perfect character. You don’t have to giver her everything, but you don’t got to take everything as well. I just think with the way they’re nerfing and buffing characters, it’s a little unforgiving. If they’re going to take something away from a character, they might as well take it away from all of them. Or, if anything, make all the characters extremely good instead of making some really bad and some extremely amazing.
You’ve mentioned anti-air a few times — do you think that’s what they might need to buff in order to bring Chun Li back where she should be?
I definitely even think just a simple anti-air buff would make her better. With everything the way it is right now, they could just buff her anti-air and she’d be a more complete character. Right now, she’s a little incomplete, playing her is just — you don’t feel extremely comfortable playing her because you never know what’s in store for you because you never know if you’re too close or too far, or if you’re opponent jumps if you can anti-air them. It’s like you miss anti-air, right?
But since the hitbox is so small now, it misses and you end up losing the round because of that, because you get knocked down and they get you with like set play and then you die. It’s kind of like ugh, well, I did the right thing but I wasn’t spaced properly I guess. It’s very fickle, the anti-air.
Do you think that they have to nerf characters like Urien and Rashid at all?
I definitely think they won’t nerf Rashid just because a lot of players don’t play him so I don’t think — they don’t understand him or can’t see it yet. But I definitely think characters like Urien are kind of like Mika and Chun Li in Season 1. It’s almost like, why? Why are they so strong? There’s no reason for them to be that strong, you know? They’re just too good for their own good and I would figure that, from Season 1, they would have learned their lesson but I think that what happened was the same thing with Rashid. Like I said, Rashid is really good, but Capcom won’t know because no one really plays him. Same thing with Urien, he came out rather late in the season. No one really played him, no one really knew whether he was good or not.
And the people who played him, they didn’t play him enough so they complained about him and they said, “What is up with this? We keep losing with him.” Well, that’s because you haven’t had enough time with the character yet. So what they did was, they didn’t take anything from him and they just gave him a bunch of stuff that he didn’t need. I always thought the character was great to begin with, he didn’t need more stuff on top of that, so they gave him a bunch of extra stuff that he didn’t need. Like he’s a niche character, he’s a fancy character. If you had a dream for Urien, what would you want? And someone was listing off everything they wanted for the character, you know? Let’s give him this, let’s give him this, let’s give him this. That’s what I feel that character is, so he definitely needs a little bit of nerfing for sure. But not too much because you don’t want to make the character unplayable and I think that is key, especially to gaining more access and gaining more players for Street Fighter.
If a new player is going to play Street Fighter, you don’t want to have them play the game and learn a character and feel accomplished just for the next season to have their character be completely demolished. They’re kind of up in arms, kind of like, “Well, I learned this character and it took me a lot of time, a lot of dedication, and now my character is stuck and I can’t perform that well any more.” It’s just very disheartening for a new player, I feel, so they should definitely keep that in mind, that they should nerf and buff characters in a fair extent I feel.
Kristine “Vaalia” Hutter is a news editor for theScore esports. You can find her on Twitter.
Daniel Rosen is a news editor for theScore esports. You can follow him on Twitter.
Basically, this is the same shit everyone been saying lol. If you’re in the know, you know all this already.
From Combofiend
I seriously hope there’s more than this. But from the looks of things, she doesn’t get much changing. We’ll see once it comes out in April.
That’s the buff I’ve been waiting for this whole time! :love:
Rest in peace Chun Li.
EL OH FUCKING EL!!!
Those Chun buffs, I’m sorry, buff, are sick!!! What a complete and utter letdown. I actually had hope of switching back to Chun but, NOPE!
I didn’t expect buffs so i am not disappointed. I knew that the lower tiers would get buffed and she will be left out because the common idiot doesn’t realize how badly she got nerfed.
That is what we get for assholes who kept saying " She has no bad matchups " all season.
From Capcom-Unity:
"Although we are mostly pleased with the results of that data, we do feel that some further adjustments need to be made to ensure the cast feels that much more balanced.
As you’ll see, our goal is **not to weaken **the stronger cast members, but to strengthen those who we felt weren’t faring as well as would like to see."
Source: http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2017/03/15/street-fighter-v-season-2-balance-update
Looks at Season 1 Chun then at Season 2 Chun…
LIES!!!
How can they literally write this shit knowing what Season 2 is versus Season 1!?
I really hope she does get something when the patch hit in April, I’m really disappointed in Capcom. Good thing i started practicing with Balrog and Cammy. Your Still my favorite character and always will be Chun!
Oh no, this is terrible! Capcom really hasn’t responded to anything Chun players said! I suppose Chun mains had way too much tact to flood the Capcom Unity with complaints about the character. I’m happy for the rest of the characters who got buffed and could just have become fun again. So averagely it could be the balance patch actually made things more balanced from the broad perspective. I just don’t like getting singled out with a character, who is also very execution heavy.
Here’s February statistics from all Chun usage (Ranked, Casual and Battle Lounge):
A single positive match up. Against Ryu. Everything else is at slight disadvantage. And I think you could make an argument about beginners mostly starting from Ryu and Chun being mained by more experienced Street Fighter players (and me losing in the Casuals while learning). We are talking bottom tier folks. With the rebalancing touching Alex, Nash and Ryu, Chun can very well become the new worst character. Given Season 1, Chun is still too well-known to be protected by obscurity in Season 2.
I’m seeing Event Hubs claims Chun is Top 5 (ranked by top 10000 players) , but that pretty much has to include Season 1 data. I’m seeing Chun’s having difficulties in taking single rounds at pro level, and do not believe there’s somewhere an island of bloody good online Chuns who are never attending tournaments and wrecking people around the globe.
I suppose at this point I’ll have to adopt Goofyhands’ approach to this. Playing her can be considered being part of the problem. So if things remain as they are in April’s patch, I’ll not start ranked play with Chun. The only way to force Capcom to improve her is to reduce the availability to the point it becomes clear something is wrong.
It’s just that I don’t particularly like other alternatives. Juri, Rashid and Karin click sort of well with me, and Juri isn’t far in the rankings from Chun indicating a balance problem from her side too. Rashid sort of has the issue I have with Cammy, both go up in the vertical in specials which tends to annoy me for some reason. I did kung-fu for ten years, and my other alternative is Fang, who I don’t like because he feels sluggish. So I’ll have to take a look at Karin and Nash, I guess.
The issue with this for me is that Capcom managed to shatter my belief they can balance things right or can even see the actual unfair stuff. Because of that, the e-sport aspect becomes a question, and that’s why I got interested in the first place. Street Fighter 5 is one of the few games I’ve spent 200 hours playing, and all that in about three months starting from the end of December. Balancing like this makes me think I spent way too much time trying to catch up with SFV than actually playing Blood Bowl 2, which I had fun with, and which is also an e-sport but better balanced.
I think they meant in this very particular patch @Rayartz . The top tiers like Urien, Rog, Guile and Laura didn’t get any crippling nerfs. Nothing even close to the extent that Chun did from S2 to S1.
I am even more astonished by the fact that Mika is still allowed to live while Chun is left to rot and die. What did we do to get left behind this hard ? I didn’t expect much but was hoping for at least some form of damage increase here or there. More damage on legs or at least something like having st.LP xx HK legs back.
I wanted anything but now we got nothing. sigh…
I will still use Chun Li because i like her too much to drop her but i have already accepted her fate as a low tier character that is surrounded by conspiracy theories.
I swear to god Chun is being targeted by a group or something. You have scumbags like Eventhubs who likes to rally up the hate on this character from Day 1. The bitching about her never stopped and rallying up the hate on her from her actual gameplay to even ridiclous BS like her getting many skins is un- FUCKING- real.
When you have dedicated people who does nothing but bitch and complain about this character, oh and even is S2 they have to say that she is good. You have these so called Pros that have her in some imaginary top 10 that they believe in somehow.
Chun didn’t cut it when she was arguably the best in S1 and now what chances does she have ? Then you have BS characters like Cammy who don’t get 20% of the hate that Chun gets while being brain dead easy and having the bitch buffed even harder.
I swear there is some sort of conspiracy against Chun-Li. Fuck, man.
Chun is still too fair. Playable, but still too fair
Hold frames for charge moves
The number of frames necessary to complete a charge has been increased from 6F to 10F.
Idon;t understand this one, someone pls justifies? So that we can’t do normal combo into SBK anymore ???
I’m releaved…
I was expecting more nerfs.
Not that she’s very good or anything, but I know that Capcom is bad. Like REALLY bad.