Goofyhand/One Handed Terror said it a few pages back.
Chun was a struggle in SF4, I stuck with her from day 1 because I always played Chun in the past
In SFV S1 you had to play smart to win, contrary to people like Chris G (who could destroy me btw) who said Chun can just yolo legs to victory, they are truly stupid, if you didn’t play Chun in S1 smart and semi cautious you’d die. Like any Chun before her you have to pick and choose your moments to be aggressive.
Now with S2 the matches play out too much like SF4s-era Chun. I have to work my butt off to win!
Thankfully everyone slept on Laura in S1, she was my alt - I beat the heck outta people with her S1…and now I literally destroy people.
Come S3, Laura will be dead, Chun may get slightly buffed and Juri will be God Tier.
Right now i feel that Mika IS a low tier character however because she still can land big boys damage, i can still win if i made the good reads. If i played solid enough and landed what i needed to land, i can still win.
Chun on the other hand is a struggle, not gonna lie about that. I don’t think that she is bad per say but you have to work so hard to close rounds with her. It is heart breaking to outplay a Laura, Balrog, Urien the entire round only to get hit once into V-trigger, guess wrong on the following mixup and die. That is the sad reality of Chun-Li now. She is a LOT or work, it would have been fine if these YOLO ass characters were mid or low tiers but they are top tiers and you will fight them frequently.
Regardless, i still find her fun. I do think that Karin and Cammy fills the poke you to death while still have good pressure way better than Chun does now. I don’t think it is particularly fair how the Chun player is being asked to play a text book perfect play to win but Balrog can fuck around 90% of the round and still be a threat but whatever, it is just what it is.
Chun li fucking sucks now. You have to be a pro to win with her now.
It feels like you can pick up any other character in the game and win easier. This shit is hilarious. Don’t get me started on the top tiers in season 2. What is Capcom fucking thinking? This isn’t a balanced game at all. It’s whoever Capcom wants to be top tier and fuck the rest.
Also, there isn’t any new tech coming for Chun lol. That’s a pipe dream.
Im a fellow Ryu player and i don’t mean to talk about this since this is a discussion mainly for chun li but this season 2 patch has left a bad taste in a lot of players mouth including me. Not only did capcom lied about not overhitting the top tiers or stronger members of the cast (chun, ryu, Mika,Ken,Nash) but then they overbuff the characters that were already good or above average (Urien,Balrog, Guile) this patch is just one of the worst I ever seen in a fighting game for a very long time and now they made Ryu, Mika, Chun even less fun then they use to be for a lot of players.
And DevilJIn I just don’t see it. I don’t see Ryu making top 8 in season 2 in a major or premier event unless diago blows everyone away. The dude has no throw pressure unless you’re in the corner, his buffs are situational and don’t help in any of his Mu’s, Mu’s like balrog and guile have gotten way worse for him, his normals can’t compete with most of the cast since their stubby, the fireball game is weaker this time around compared to IV unless you’re Guile, the st fp buff is nice but why limit it to v trigger only? so in a way that just negates it getting buffed really. This patch has shown me they are gonna do the exact same thing for season 3 so I have no hope with capcom when it comes to balance patching this game
Played more Season 2. I still like Chun, but season 2 overall is trash. For me, it has nothing to do with what they did to Chun, rather what they did to a few other characters who are highly prevalent; It appears Capcom’s idea of balance is rotating who is top. I think Chun is still viable, but the real question is will top players who rely on SFV tournies to pay rent or what not still use her when you can use say… Urien or Balrog? She does have to work a bit harder for some MUs with her nerfs, but I think some people are knee-jerk reacting when people say she’s bad or mid, or weak. I’m okay with people crying, because Capcom caters to those who b*** and moan, perhaps she will get her frame 3 cr lp back come season 3 or something. She certainly will not be nerfed anymore.
Season 2 meta seems to be throwing out safe nonsense that people who aren’t abusing some kind of drug/stimulant can’t react to. Like Urien’s ex tackle, Rog’s punch that hits low, etc.
IMO, worst nerf overall Chun received was on her hurtbox. From a visual standpoint, it doesn’t make sense. She literally has this void… air/space behind her back… *not even on her character model * that is hittable. Because of this, she can get hit with crossups that… well, visually do not make sense (since the air is hurtable) and you need to also watch out for this when using stand fierce. Chun got super fat. I have to retrain my habits, sometimes if someone would jump at me I would walk under to punish them, but depending on the character and what normal they used, I can now actually get hit for a crossup. The solution to this is jump back strong into heavy legs.
tl;dr it’s not all gloom and doom for Chun, I bet they’ll revert some nerfs in S3, but I’m sure top players would rather use easier characters like Urien or Boxer. Will be interesting to see her tourny results in S2.
I don’t want to hear anything about season 3 and chun li. Lmao. Capcom would do some bull shit like that. Wait until the game is almost dead and start buffing characters they fucked over while the game was alive. Shit is ridiculous. Capcom continues to piss off their fan base. This isn’t good business strategy.
I take back anything i have said about Cammy being more manageable. The matchup is still hell on earth to me.
Also Laura…God this one is frustrating. I had a match against a Laura player who was a bit jump happy. I would anti-air 5 times a round but there would be this one freaking time where he would land the jump in or i would even just block it and get thrown into the blender. I also love how one mashed st.MK with her on V-trigger can cost you the round.
Basically all Laura needs is 1 hit with V-trigger, she will get a combo out of that.Then it is 1 guess, if you guessed wrong you are stunned and the followup combo will kill you.
1 mistake and 1 wrong guess =a loss against Laura. All of while you have to play perfectly and stop her from getting with pokes (risk getting counter poked) and have perfect anti-air reactions.Oh and yeah, 1 YOLO OH that you got hit by can lead to that 50/50 and your death. Mika is and was much more tolerable than Laura is now. Even then i wonder sometimes why i am busting my ass with complicated motions and hard combos when everyone else puts in much less effort and get big reward.
sigh… I don’t know man. The more i fight these annoying Rogs,Urien,Cammy,Guile and Laura’s the more i am starting to get more annoyed at Chun’s current situation. I honestly think that even S1 Chun would have struggled against them.
This also points out how retarded it was that Laura players acted like Chun Li destroyed Laura. All of the shit she’s blowing Chun Li up now, is mostly shit she could have done in Season 1. She got some quality of life stuff here and there, but she could run a train on you nearly as well in Season 1. The only reason it’s highlighted is that the Season 1 high tiers aren’t as good as her anymore and everyone’s hopping on the Laura bandwagon online.
You’re right about Season 1 Chun struggling against those characters also. Chun was good in a game where set play wasn’t so strong. Which is why usually the only character you saw Chun get bodied by was Mika. The risk/reward of that matchup was clearly in Mika’s favor. Guile was also a struggle with MOV and other top Chuns getting visibly beat in tournament by ISDD and NuckleDu’s Guiles.
Which is what removal of hard knockdowns and such was supposed to do. Now we’re back to 3rd Strike though where the game is very heavy on air resets, hard to react to/escape pressure situaitons and V Triggers that give people hard to react to attacks that can steal rounds.
Oh and I hate every single person that said Guile was bad in Season 1 and had no normals or projectiles. Hate them all.
Most already know that slide is a common punish for her FB, but without V-trigger to cancel into this leads to nothing and half the time you aren’t at advantage either. Well if you’re willing to sacrifice some health, you can trade with Laura’s Fireball with spaced st.HP/HK and convert into EX legs on the trade. This is farther than the slide range, but with st. HK while it’s easier to get the trade with, it requires you to be closer than st. HP to get the EX Legs conversion.
The only other move I can think of to punish besides super is cr. LK (canceled into legs etc.), but you have to be really close to use that. Chun Li’s other lows have too high of a hurtbox to challenge it.
Season 1 Chun would still beat Laura in season 2, but as you said, you would have to play nearly perfect. With better anti air, better normals, and with the real instant air legs, season 1 Chun would be a nightmare for Laura. However, Capcom nerfed Chun to oblivion and beyond in season 2. So, I agree with everything you said about Chun in season 2, but I still think season 1 Chun(in the right hands) could hold her own vs any character in season 2. And, that’s what Chun was suppose to be able to do. She should be able to hold her own and go toe to toe with the best of the best. However, for whatever reason, Capcom didn’t want anymore Chuns winning anything and nerfed her to hell and made Urien and the rest top tier.
The neutral isn’t really the issue as much as it is the stupidity of her vortex game. I feel like i am forced to do one thing then hand over my turn to her and that sticky bastard keep her turn going forever.
It is also the stupid shit associated with Laura. You know how many times i saw her doing some random shit into V-skill dash and i would swear to god that i have pressed a jab or cr.LK to interrupt but nothing comes out and she command throws me. It happens at-least once per set against Laura players, not to mention that her playstyle forces me to use reversals way more than i am comfortable with as a player.
I think on paper Chun is supposed to be winning but the same could be said about Mika in season 1. Chun was supposed to be winning it but Chun players were losing to Mika players a whole lot.
Where exactly am I supposed to be standing against laura ? What should I be trying to do ? It is not hard to outpoke her but with a toddler liker pressure game compared to what she can do i never feel secure in the match.
It sucks that she at-least 4-6 or maybe even 3-7 Mika too at the moment. When i use Mika and go against Laura i feel that i have to quadruple the effort of the Laura player just to take a round. So it isn’t like Rog where i can run to Mika to save the day.
Oh, I wasn’t really responding to any specific problems in Chun’s matchups, just posting random stuff I find in the lab and how I think it could be applied.
If I were to go into detail, it would probably be posted in the matchup thread, but I struggle against her a lot as well (even in Season 1). She shits out damage and stun (she can actually do 423 off of one bar as a post-stun combo… probably more if you’re an expert with her), so yeah it becomes a matter of guessing correctly if she gets in and to try your hardest not to let her in in the first place (became more difficult with weaker AA options involved).
I played in a tournament this last Saturday and had to play a Laura to get into winner’s finals. It’s not the best of play, but maybe it will help (3 out of 5 set):
When I got home, I practiced interrupts for her v-skill dash and ending with LK SBK because I noticed I wasn’t doing that enough at all… amongst other things (also didin’t AA very well).
My friend also picked his pocket Laura in LFs for the first couple of matches, but he’s not a dedicated Laura (still got me for a match though).
I find it tough online to consistently challenge her V skill Dash cancels from a blocked normal. Are any of you guys good at dealing with it? When i interrupt Laura doing that it’s mostly me anticipating it
@"DevilJin 01"
“This also points out how retarded it was that Laura players acted like Chun Li destroyed Laura. All of the shit she’s blowing Chun Li up now, is mostly shit she could have done in Season 1”
As a Laura player as well as a Chun. I told fellow Laura’s that the match up is not that hard for Laura in season 1 - now in season 2, it’s laughable just how much easier it is.
Like really I thought Laura was strong in season 1. Her “touch of death” combos/resets people are complaining about now…she could do season 1…just saying.
I do them often, thanks to Season 2 buffs…I have more! MWAHAHA!
Rather transparently, I must say. Yurien, Balrog, Guile, Juri, and Ibuki? All DLC characters. Think about what kind of message Capcom is trying to convey here. Rinse and repeat a year later…
To be fair most of the DLC characters last year was mid-tiers at best and only Guile and maybe Urien was considred a top 10 characters. Most of their buffs are not that bad either, it is just the crazy unnecessary ones that are a problem. Most of them getting medium medium links is ok.
My biggest issues are
Urien and Rog having 25 extra HP is retarded.Both of them should be 950HP max with that kind of comeback potential.
Guile being able to get this big of a combo from UDK is kinda crazy. That should get reverted back to S1 status since he now have a medium to medium. I would also make the tracking on EX Flash kick like SF4 status. It is way to hard to try to cross-up Guile now since his EX FK tracks way too good.
Decrease the advantage on Ibuki’s st.MK by a bit and make her F.HK -4 or -5 to be in line with the rest of the cast.
PS. Urien st.HP** MUST BE ADJUSTED **. The move is broken at the moment. He gets so much out of it from virtually zero risk. I would make it -4 or -5 again, to be in line with everyone.
Regarding Chun, I feel that she does fine vs everyone who isn’t Urien,Rog,Guile, Laura and to a lesser extent Cammy. Everyone else feels very manageable to me.
Urien is broken. I have no idea what Capcom was thinking when they gave him all those buffs. Yet, they nerfed Chun to hell. These guys are idiots and are just winging it. It’s like they don’t even care anymore and just pick and choose who they want to be top tier without any rational thought. Unless, their rational is that Chun is boring and Urien is entertaining. Who knows.
Chun is solid it’s just a huge pain in the ass now when you’re fighting a lot of Laura’s, Balrog’s and Urien players. I think the reason Chun, Nash and even Ryu players feel the way they feel now it’s because they are all not use to the nerfs (including me)and the changes with the other characters that made them better. Caqpcom though did butcher Nash and Ryu though and the same with Alex, it’s really a shame if it will be like this for one year