Agreed. At first I thought the damage was nerfed across the board, but after seeing so many of those “one touch into death” stuff from other characters I am not so sure. (I really hate those, btw) Chun has nothing like those and what players came up with in season 1 was… quite ineffectual to say the least. (her 999 frame startup overhead) yet her damage output is now perhaps one of the lowest in the game. She just has to land lots and lots more hits with as few mistakes as possible.
I do not think it is a good idea but I will keep an open mind and give it a shot. For me doing piano legs has been like asking for a punish. But maybe there is something to be gained by keeping the charge. We shall see.
Many people are trying to discredit Alioune…which I find really hilarious.
He was most definitely one of the pioneers of Season 1 Chun-Li show casing very early just how deadly she could be.
I think he was the first one to do St. Mp xx ExKikouken combos and Mk SBK
He currently lists Chun as a C tier character in season 2.
After putting more time in with her I’m finding it easy to agree.
I’m keeping an eye out for match footage to see someone show casing how to approach with Chun in season 2.
I watch Valmaster play her yesterday on stream and it wasn’t pretty - his Juri is looking fair though.
Agreed, here is the tier list for anyone who didn’t see it
I agree with Alioune. People who argue that Chun li is top tier don’t even play Chun li. Most everybody dropped Chun except the hardcore die hard Chun fans. You can still win some games with her, but she’s not going to win any major tournaments or anything like that. Chun li could have been great in SFV. Unfortunately, Capcom decided they wanted Urien, Guile, Laura, Cammy and the rest to get the shine and not Chun li.
The vtrigger buffs are a joke. Might as well not have added them. The scaling is horrible and results in useless damage. In my opinion, chun li didn’t receive any buffs only nerfs. They gave her those vtrigger cancels to act like she got something when she really didn’t.
I definitely agree with the Vtigger Buffs not being buffs. I though oh neat when I first saw them but when I did them in the Lab I was like…Damage? WTF?
This is something Alex Valle said and it totally holds true to what Capcom SAID they would do.
“I wish Capcom wouldn’t nerf some of the characters [so] badly [and instead] buff the ones that need it. Characters are more desirable if they can utilize as many tools as possible in a match.”
So what if Chun had great tools in Season 1, make everyone else better and don’t take away from what made her great. I feel the same about R. Mika. She didn’t need all those nerfs she got either.
I had a pretty good winning percentage against her online because I spent time to learn the match up!!
Really ticks me off I have all these great notes on Season 1 Chun: What you can punish, how to best punish, etc., etc., now they are worthless…Yes I’m still salty over the Season 2 changes. I honestly don’t have fun playing this game and I played 6 characters in Season 1, not just Chun.
Chun, Laura, Cammy, Juri, Ken, Ryu are all over lvl 30 on my game. Ibuki is 26 ish so that’s another one.
Capcom pretty much lied to everyone saying they would buff characters instead of nerf them.
I think Infiltration is even pissed about the season 2 changes and has basically called Capcom out for what they did. His main point is that the new players spend all this time to learn their character and then everything just changes. That’s not how you balance games, and I hope going forward Capcom learns a valuable lesson from all these debacles they have displayed with SFV.
Even more, they made certain characters like Urien broken and made Guile top tier, etc. Now, everyone is playing Guile, Urien, Cammy, Laura. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen Guile mirror matches or Urien mirror matches. Shit is boring.
And they said they wanted the game to be more about the uniqueness of each character. LMAO! Looks like the same ole SFV to me with new top tiers taking over and more mirror matches as a result. You can’t make this stuff up if you tried. I don’t think Capcom knows what the hell they are doing.
Oh and you better be pro level to even have fun with chun in SFV unless you think losing is fun. And im not even talking about tournaments I’m talking about just casual matches or rank online.
Season 1 Chun is what the game designers at Capcom thought Chun should be in SFV. They changed (nerfed) her because that’s what the SF community wanted. Pros, Twitch chat, forums, Reddit, and commentators kept going on and on all year about how Chun was too good. Blame them.
Just hope the Capgods don’t forget about Chun when they rebuff the characters they nerfed in S3. :prayer:
One thing I don’t quite understand, not just for Chun, but for others they went ham with on the nerfs is that if they rebuff certain things, why nerf them in the first place? It shouldn’t take an entire season for them to realize “Wow this is a pretty shitty situation we put this character in, we pissed off too many fans of the character and it wasn’t necessary”. Even Lud… who plays Chun in like EVERY game is picking up a new character. That’s heartbreaking man, lol.
I’ll say the V-trigger cancels are a good buff. As long as you are stocked with v-trigger, it gives a knockdown and/or extended corner carry ender to any confirm and then you can go for a couple of mixups or chip away at the white health if they’re blocking too well. But it doesn’t really compensate well enough for the laundry list of nerfs they put into play and getting v-trigger isn’t really that much easier (have to land a jumpin and forgo better damage and normal meter build just to get any significant amount of v-gauge… and the optimal ender to that requires you to SPEND regular meter). Other “buffs” are not really helping or are entirely situational and can only be used like 3% of the time.
Mov playing sets right now with an Ibuki if anyone wants to watch:
[quote=“DevilJin_01, post:3171, topic:175372”]
Nuki is still championing his lady online
[/quote]That Cammy player sure loved to DP. Why don’t people complain more about Cammy i wonder ?
She doesn’t have an overhead or command grab. Notice the characters everyone is complaining about now have overheads and command grabs.
That st.LK bugs the hell out of me more than any commrand grab or an overhead ever did. Regardless, I do feel that the Chun-Cammy match is actually more manageable this season that in S1 for me at-least. Not having to worry about EX divekick as much as before and knowing that she can’t just DP whenever she wants make the match more manageable for Chun.
That is just my experience with it atleast.
I think with time Cammy players will realize that they still can DP whenever they want. She still has the best meterless DP and I’m surprised they’re not already going ham with it. The only time Cammy has to really choose to not meterless DP is on wake up or against the tighest of block traps. In the neutral or against gapped pressure you can pretty much use it the same way. It’s not like Chun Li has auto pilot meaties for days or anything.
Like against that f+MPxN stuff and f+MP, overhead target that Urien players abuse, you can just beat that stuff with meterless DP still. Don’t need to spend meter. That still allows her and the shotos to whore meter in situations that others have to spend.
Thought I’d post my final thoughts about season 2 Chun now that I’ve gotten some real time with her. I personally still just don’t like her that much. Capcom nerfs are always usually nonsensical but I can kinda see why some were done. As much as it sucks to get the air throw, st.lk, b.hp and neutral jumping hk nerfs, I’m fine with those changes and I can see why they were done. A character with such a strong ground game probably didn’t need such a strong air game too. I think st.lk,even with the severe hitbox reduction, still does its job well.
The nerfs I don’t understand are the kikoken nerfs. Totally unnecessary and the biggest WTF nerf is why on earth her jumping mk’s hitbox was made smaller, thus making her crossup having to hit really deep for it to connect. Chun’s jump is horrible and you have an eternity to swat her out of the air. I don’t see why they did that at ALL. Pointless.
I’ve already talked about IALL. It’s been made slower, the hurtbox is larger, negative on block and its damage potential decimated. I’d be fine with all of those changes if at least they had left the damage capability alone. Still has it’s uses, but they already made opening up opponents with Chun tougher so this doesn’t help at all. In combination with all the other nerfs, this just has far too many risks attached to it now. I’d rather have a kara-throw back and as Chun is now, I don’t see anything broken about giving her that back.
The biggest problem for me, is again, the damage nerf. This is what’s really destroyed the character in my opinion. I never really thought Chun was low damage in S1. Others outclassed her a lot I think in terms of damage output, but I still thought she was at a level where she could keep up. But now the disparity between her and others damage in the cast is staggering. Nothing you do does any real damage. Even jump in combos, which is always risky to do with Chun, struggle to crack 300 damage. Her damage output in V-trigger is again very poor and too drastic considering they’ve already shortened the time. I’m still amazed that after doing all those finger gymnastics with some of her V-trigger shenanigans that the practical damage output tends to top out at around 230-250. As others have mentioned, the new juggles and LL V-trigger cancels looks cute and fun for a while, but it’s all style and no substance at the end of the day. LL already scales horribly, and while it being V-trigger cancel helps every now and then to squeak out a little extra damage where you couldn’t before in previous situations, it’s not a game changer by any means, and I’d gladly lose it to get some of the other damage back from season 1.
I’ve always played Chun in every game. She’s always been a poke character, but that wasn’t what made me keep playing her or what made the character good imo. You have to remember that in all the games Chun is good in, she has GODLIKE pokes and somewhat decent damage output too (Alpha 2, ST( although everyone kinda does) 3rd strike via broken super , CvS2 etc etc.) Any game where she can’t really dish out damage well, she struggles and sometimes sucks. That was the case with all SF4 iterations, and I think now she’s suffering a similar fate in season 2 now. She’s not bad any means, but I think it’s been a fall from grace for her. She feels very mid tier now. Again as I’ve said in the past, I’m not all THAT upset about it cause we got an awesome Chun for 10 months last year, but she definitely is nowhere near as fun anymore. I’m still gonna play her but I hope for a better S3 Chun.
Have any of you all’s opinions changed about her now that were nearly a month into the new season?
I’m going to wait a couple months before I have a really solid opinion on her. Tech is most likely going to come about that will change the outcome for her like it did for Season 1.
She’s not top tier anymore ATM, but having good buttons makes you pretty good in a game that’s less vortex/setplay heavy than SFIV was. Granted the high tiers are basically characters that have better mix up and damage than her, but her space control and having a true reversal should play to keep her pretty decent. Having a 2 bar V Trigger even if nerfed I feel is still pretty important in this game as well.
Not sure how many know this already, but you can throw out cr. MK after Balrog’s v-trigger Crazy Rush->Charging/Bursting Buffalo is blocked and he stops. They are all -2 on block, but none of your light attacks can reach him after blocking and his 3f st. LK can’t reach you or hit your cr. MK, so it’s your turn if you use that. He can’t walk back after this either or else he’ll get clipped.
Typically people would V-reversal during these rush punches to avoid the potential mixup and being pushed to the corner, which is good. I think If you have your own V-trigger fully stocked though and are not in danger of being chipped out by his super, it’s a good alternative to let him burn a good chunk of his V-gauge away and then do your own cr. MK xx Legs xx VTC after blocking to get your own pressure started.
The only thing I think you have to worry about is the V-Skill spin -> Overhead mixup during the Crazy Rush -> Bursting Buffalo (the uppercut version, since this has enough blockstun to trade the overhead with 4f moves and still combo after). In season 1 you could interrupt this always with Chun’s 3f cr. LP, but now that will trade if his timing is perfect and you eat big damage, so only cr. LK can interrupt now (and you don’t get as big of a conversion from that, but at least you can still get a knockdown and turn it around). I only bring this up because obviously cr. MK would lose here, so you have to keep an eye out.
-Another quick piece of info is after blocking his EX Straight, he’s +1 on block, but a lot of Balrogs try st. LP to special cancel that into something since that’s his farthest light attack and will reach you after the pushback. You can use cr. LK to trade with this and any other 4f light and end his pressure (other character’s 3f light attacks don’t reach him… that’s why they always do this). The only thing he can actually beat this with is his st. LK, which doesn’t reach if you pressed nothing and that only converts into his target combo which isn’t much damage unless he has V-Trigger to cancel into (but it is knockdown pressure so be aware of that). In other words, he has to commit to this and there’s always the possibility you can bust out EX SBK to steal the turn, but cr. LK is generally safe bet to kill his momentum from that “get in for free” move.
When I first heard about the nerfs, I thought it was a joke. When I realized the nerfs were real, I realized Chun was dead in season 2. After playing her for a some time, my opinion is still the same.