A lot of moves push you too far back to do the full bnb. In those cases, I’d just stop at st. MP and cancel into a special from there.
What can you cancel from st. MP besides LL?
Any special move
… So LL?
So any special move. Its special cancelable so any one works. Super too
Kikoken and EX Kikoken, but requires you to buffer your charge effectively. SBK if you buffer the up charge properly.
Sorry, I was thinking raw st. MP.
Love doing this comeback with Chun. He had me pretty much dead at stunned. He wiff and I make him pay.
Good question. I kinda wanna know too now LOL. I actually don’t know.
Hey guys can I get advice for st. mp into ex kikoken? I understand that charge gets retained from the cr. lp but i’ve only managed to do this a few times. Are there any tips or tricks to getting this consistently?
okay so i’m trying to work on some setups after m.sbk so I get some tough into sbk and it seems like i get dp right of the break anyway. If i try to hesitate then they normal stand and don’t dp. Sometimes i get caught out of my dash and I get dP. Then there is the whole mashing grabs on wakeup as a mixup to the DP and i don’t really see any good options to shut it down completely. even if I b.hp it does not catch it. I want to make people pay.
Double dash forward (instantly) and you can do whatever you want. cr.lp, st.mp, grab, etc. They can’t mash throw/jab cause you are + (If you dash INSTANTLY). Works for both normal quickrise and backroll. Back+hp doesn’t work, it’s not fast enough if they normal quickrise. If you get DP’d then you dashes weren’t fast enough and/or you didn’t block.
The trick is to go to neutral for the st.mp as late as possible, and to cancel to EX kikoken INSTANTLY (it has to be an instant cancel, else the game will have forgotten your charge). If you go to neutral too early or too late, you will get the back + mp command normal.
It’s pretty tough, but it just comes down to practice. I can get it very consistently now, so it’s worth it to practice it.
So, a problem I’ve run into with chun “offline” is I literally can very rarely throw people. This is a chun specific thing more than anything, the reason is:
Chun, other than jumpin>throw has no ticks besides cr.lp>throw… So her throw game is very obvious. She can’t cr.lpx2 and then throw or anything like that without putting herself at huge risk.
The reason why her throw game is so bad is because she basically has to walk forward and thus put herself at minus frames, to throw people… And what does that mean for Chun? Well in a nutshell, since she has to walk forward to throw after cr.lp, and since her throw like everyone else’s is 5 frame startup and I think, 7 frame tech time… That means the window to break chuns throw after cr.lp is a whopping 15 frames or so (You have to add on 3 frames of walking time after the cr.lp to the entire window… Actually in my testing its as much as 5-6 frames to walk forward and then throw) so… What that means is that the opponent can tech VERY late against Chun specifically.
And using quicker frame traps? Doesn’t work, offline at least. I tried:
Cr.lp>instant air legs over and over again… Just doesn’t work because the opponent can react to the fact that instant legs came out, and not a pause of some kind.
I also tried:
Cr.lp> walk in cr.lp,st.mp… Almost always blocked.
Cr.lp> Walk in cr.lkx2, st.lp almost always blocked (actually this one might have more merit, what generally happened alot here was that the first cr.lk would get blocked and then the second cr.lk would hit into st.lp… But I didn’t have the reactions for this, might never have them tbh… 2 hit light confirms are hard for me…
And lots of people tbh)
I tried shimmy, worked sometimes, but chuns shimmy game doesn’t seem the best because no real safe on block cancels she can do… She can ex cancel her cr.mk… But for me it’s a guess… And a costly one at that.
And I also tried cr.lp walk forward a huge distance, st.mp. That also worked a bit… These guys were seriously getting the late tech on like the last frame of tech consistently… SIGH.
so the problem with all that? Well after all that work just to mix people up in the natural streetfighter way…
They can simply mix it up and start jumping out, walking backwards or mashing quick jab.
This all basically means that the throw game, from chuns perspective is weak. She has a bigger gap in jab throw than probably any character, and that allows things against her throw game specifically that other characters don’t have to contend with.
It’s not all doom and gloom though, she’s tied for best dash throw or dash cr.lp in the game once she’s already in… But dashing after one is already in is dubious.
then, also, I find out that even on v trigger cr.mp cancel, Chun isn’t plus. Nope she’s even. So if the enemy player has a 3 frame jab they can trade with you all day long if your cr.mp is blocked. So cr.mp xx v trigger is dubious against 3 framers with knowledge.
Ok so moving on:
2 very good v triggers are:
Cr.lp, shimmy, cr.hp xx v trigger. This is mad plus on block. And on block Chun can get a throw or fhk mixup off. If the fhk hits you get stupid damage.
The other good v trigger is:
St.hp xx v trigger. This is also stupid good because not only is it plus on block, it actually pulls Chun in on activation from super far.
These are the 2 best all around v triggers I’ve found. Both do more damage than cr.mp xx v trigger does from range and for less meter as well.
Cr.mp xx v trigger is still a great trigger against characters that have no 3 frame move though.
I’m still at a semi loss as to how to play current Chun. Her throw range is abysmal, her dash, while fast, has some of the worst range for a dash in the game. Her poking game tends to just knock people away.
And though there are all kinds of reasons why this might be happening, the karin I lost to 14-2 yesterday, was able to consistently jab me after I did lowest height Iall. This of course passed me off to the extreme since I feel like I have the timing down and knew I was getting out lowest legs most of the time (he crouched them all, and I was still making contact with 1 hit of legs) but his jab beat mine at least half the time if not more. So to make a long story short my close range game was highly ineffective yesterday offline. I didn’t yet know about st.hp and cr.hp xx v trigger, but other than that i just felt like I was dealing with option selects out the ass just like in sf4 the throw game seems that weak. This dude didn’t bother to AA me like much at all and just teched and jabbed his way out of most of my offense.
So, that’s sf5 to me. You can outplay your opponent at the neutral where you get free jumpins with a character with a 41 frame jump, and still lose cause you get “outplayed” at neutral and lose to shit like v trigger cr.mk xx rekkas into super which does like half life for no reason at all.
My opponent was damn good, so that’s fine. But if you can’t enforce AA it’s hard to feel like you got outplayed while being allowed to jumpin almost at will (I was jumping in like 3-4 times a round, cause like… I wasn’t getting AA’d) it feels just like sf4 where people can have atrocious AA game and still be very good players and that just sits bad with me.
But I’m trying to fight the good fight and figure out how to take it to them/tech this shit out.
Ok teched this shit down. Against those asshats that like to delay throw escape, the walk forward cr.lkx2,st.lp confirm is the shit. Lots of times the only the second lk will hit into the st.lp and you have to be fast to react, but it’s doable.
After that happens they see, to switch to mashing shit and that point simply going for the blocked bnb cr.lp,st.mp seems to frame trap them very well.
“(he crouched them all, and I was still making contact with 1 hit of legs)”
Pretty sure you should be getting 2 hits there.
It would seem that you are right. Wow. Ok… Back to the execution drawing board. Sigh this game 
BTW I actually tested this, and CR.MP VTC is -2 from ALL distances.
Can anyone else confirm this?
I was cringing when I saw Ricky doing CR.MP VTC CR. jab on NCR and scored a counter hit, unless my test results are wrong?
Unless the opponent is mashing, timing a normal poke after cr. mp xx v-trigger should not be easy for them. Also I leverage using EX SBK afterward anyway, so that they have to respect it. In fact anything that is generally known to be -2 on block (F+HK, DF+MK, slide xx activate, EX Legs, etc), I will go for EX SBK to check them. Not so much after EX Legs anymore as people have learned to respect it more often in that case, so I just steal back the momentum with something else. But -2 while still having a bar is the god. So many turns stolen.
Lol. you’re right. I always thought it was + cause I always counterhit my opponent. Never bothered to test it.
At almost max distance it’s 0 however, and if you hit with the tip you’re actually +. However, at this range cr.lp won’t reach the opponent.
Whats
Whats the problem with just mixing up cr.lp>throw; cr.lp, st.mp (or any other frametrap) and cr.lp>IAL to get your throw game started? IAL tend to beat the opponent’s late tech in my matches.
You also didn’t mention good ol’ dashup>throw which you can also mix up with dashup> IAL