I dunno, I think chun actually has an easier time opening people up(not on wake up)in the corner from a neutral position compared to most of the cast in this game. If people know your characters options, I would be more worried about the threat of Chuns fireball, long limbs, and air leg pressure than someone that has to take a risk of getting in range for a 5 frame command throw.
Opening someone up in this game is more about forcing a mistake rather than hitting them with some strong mixup.
I agree with Dime, fireball use is one way to get around it. Either just chip, or see how they block/react and then react to that.
People have gotten so bad as SF that they think the only way to damage is to open people up with crazy un-seeable 50/50 mixups these days.
The argument that Chun has a especially hard time opening people up is kind of weird to me. You open people up with SF5 Chun in a pretty similar way that you open people up with SF4 Chun. You get in a range where you can threaten with walkup throw with your godly walkspeed, only instead of walking up and throwing, you push one of your godly buttons that counterhits the button they might push to hit your walkup. So you can go into a cr.lp/st.lp cr.mk blockstring and easily confirm a counterhit jab into a full combo. cr.mk is unfortunately negative on block, so if they block the whole string then thatâs where your pressure usually ends and you go back towards a more neutral kind of situation, which, you know, Chun is pretty great at anyway. But you can also use cr/st.lp f.mp blockstring which gives you less reward on hit, but if they block then youâre in a better situation since f.mp is neutral on block, and you can confirm the counterhit f.mp into lk or ex legs as well. Or just jab to take control and keep them in place if you donât expect them to hit a button after it and walk up in their face.
Plus IA legs, while kind of overrated imo, is still pretty good. Chun pretty much Shang Tsungâd Makotoâs tsuguri (as well as her st.hp) except itâs harder to confirm into big damage and itâs plus on block.
Speaking of her fireball, does anyone have a specific use for the strong version? In my experience I generally use the fierce (and ex) one from mid-close for pressure/combos and the jab one from beyond that to follow in, but I never really use the strong one. Itâs almost like a mirror of the Ryu situation. The strong version is just kind of meh.
So what do you guys use it for? Whatâs the secret game-changing medium kikoken tech that Iâve overlooked?
Yeah, I agree. By no means does she not have good tools. I guess my opinion on this might have been unclear? I donât think she is that weak. She has a good tool set over all. My frustration is more so that the shift from Beta 3 to 4 had some nerfs that didnât really make any sense to me other than âfor the sake of nerfingâ which makes keeping up the pressure even harder than before.
Ah that is an interesting idea, I like it. I am worried though that itâll be hard to do when youâre trying to maintain corner pressure since it takes time to charge. Do you have any suggestions in how to make it work from a closer range while trying to maintain corner pressure or alternatives from there?
I always felt i was playing the wrong game in SF4 by trying to actually play footsies.
anyone want to test a beta 4 safejump if they have the game
CC sweep, b.hp, jump forward
should work on 4 frame dps like kens MP
Offense in this game is watered down, but Chun has some of or THE best options in the game barring a command grab.
[list]
[] Top tier normals for white health chip
[] The best forward moving normal in the game
[] A positive on block (!!!) crush counter normal with an actual hitbox past the hurtbox (!!!)
[] Second or best walkspeed in the game
[] Tied for best forward dash
[] Fireball for chip thatâs actually safeish unlike shoto fireballs and allows you to follow up for pressure
[] Various jump arcs and possible to switch cross up/non crossup
[] Air Lightning Legs
[] An uniquely safe overhead thatâs comboable with v-trigger and hits from ridiculously far
[] Instant overhead thatâs comboable
[] Setups after her bnb knockdowns
[] Frame advantage or neutral advantage after her throws
[*] Confirm off 3 lights
[/list]
Seriously.
Her meh stuff is actually defense orientend like lack of meterless reversal, situational anti airs and one of the worst v-reversals (no knockdown or side switch).
Being a character that can actually go past her FB most the time or be right next to it, fireballs help plenty in opening people up or continuing pressure (if they block thatâs free white chip⌠and eventually anything becomes a huge threat after thatâs been built up). A blocked fireball is like an immediate high/low/throw/bait opportunity for Chun.
I put them on about the same level as SF4 and I used them a lot to get in and start pressure as well as zone. Most projectile nullifying v-skills still leave the opponent in a stationary position where Chun can act before they can, so Iâm not too worried about anything vs fireballs other than moves that go straight through them for a punish.
I really donât know why some are that worried about whether they can open people up with her. Even in her most neutered state after all the beta nerfs, thatâs actually never been a problem for me. If someone appears to be able to avoid your throw attempts then you take advantage of that with her other stuff. Simple.
So does anyone know if there are any actual changes from beta 4 to final for chun?
okay, thanks for the info @xaaz, really appreciated it, because i didnât really know much about the frame trap thingy or even know how to read the frame data,i considered new here,thatâs the reason, hehe, so means that whenever i want to do the frame trap thingy,i need to look at the neutral/normals which is + on block, and the frame gap,as long it is not really too much gap, it is considered as true blockstring or frametrap right? same goes to other chars?
Yeah, the idea of frame traps is universal. Other characters may use different normals strung together to make their traps but the concept is the same across all time and space.
One little technical/semantic clarification from what you said there though; there is a difference between a true blockstring and a frame trap. Frame traps are part of blockstrings, but when you put the word true infront of the word blockstring that makes it mean something different. It means there are no gaps in the string where your opponent can act and therefore a true blockstring does not allow frame traps. In a true blockstring your opponent is always in block stun (canât act) until the string is completed.
True blockstrings arenât a huge thing in SFV because the game and most of itâs frame data is tailored around getting counterhits/crush counters. Your main normals are typically slower mediums and generally not very advantageous on block. There definitely are some true blockstrings in V but theyâre mostly in the form of light chains (like mashing jab jab).
Luckily I know how to block so itâs not so bad. I think EX SBK low key isnât that bad of a reversal since it covers both sides, distributes damage a bit more cleanly than IV it seems and isnât quite as obvious to punish as a flying DP depending on situation.
She still has better AA game than Karin who is pretty much forced to burn her reversal to get a legit AA sometimes. Air throws have almost no height restriction now and give you 200 stun for an AA. I donât see myself burning V Reversal much with Chun. Blocking is good and her V Trigger is too important for that shit. Only time I would use it is to keep myself from getting stunned. Otherwise, block gud.
okay,thanks for the clarification for the difference between frame trap and true blockstring,didnât know that haha, hopefully in final release chun doesnât change much, i need to study those frame data so that i can test the frametrap whether is legit or not =)
I actually find myself hating v-reversals now. I was super excited about them way back when I first learned that V was going to have alpha counters but after four betas of playing around with them I just⌠I just hate them.
I would be more compelled to use them if they did permanent damage or caused a hard knockdown.
me too @xaaz, i donât find V-Reversal much use for chun, only when to prevent stun or getting out of corner pressure or etc, it just caused a temporary pushback :s
Ex SBK is an awesome reversal.
In this game it has gotten an incredibuff as well. No longer can people just safe jump it all day and ignore it. Now you have to deal with it, and it hits both sides and does good damage.
Only suspect part about it in this game is that it spdoesnt vacuum for all hits all the time, itâs pretty easy to only hit 1 hit of it⌠Which is annoying, but doesnât detract from its utility.
I feel this entire game fits Chun Li pretty well. Can play neutral and have to be dealing with a command grab character or pushed into a corner to be in a dire pressure situation.