Chun Li General Thread: Blue Jade

B+mp gives you a good poke that maintains charge.

Ex fireball gives you pressure.

HP fireball is a good poke upclose that doesn’t move Chun backwards (iirc)

Instant air legs gives you pressure.

Her walk speed against a character that can no longer move backwards, is a very big benefit.

Pop v trigger in the corner for some real pressure via longer induced blockstuns.

One thing I will say about Chun in the games that she is generally best in, she is generally best because of a combo of 3 things:

SUPER high priority pokes… (She doesn’t really have that here, her pokes are good sure, but like her sf4 counterpart… They actually make sense and are balanced. This isn’t the case for A2 or 3s Chun who both shit out stupid amounts of priority)

RIDICULOUSLY HIGH damage (her damage in sf5 like sf4 seems to be very low end her damage in 3s was godlike with a kara throw that had command grab reach, and a low poke that was safe in block that did 40% plus. A2 Chun on the other hand, like most A2 characters has a very high damaging custom combo and chuns could easily do 80% at max damage, 40% at level 1.

REALLY FAST walk speed when compared to the rest of the cast (sf4 and sf5 Chun while having some of the fastest walk speed, seem to not be as much faster than the rest of the cast percentage wise, as oh say, ST Chun and A2 Chun.

None of that means Chun is bad or not top… After all we don’t really know how the game plays yet. But I kinda see sf5 Chun being slightly better than sf4 Chun.

For me she’s clearly top tier if you ignore her damage, but when you throw in her low damage she comes up slightly short to me.

This is the reason why I think it’s kinda pertinent to use a more defensive Chun that seeks to gain meter, and then uses it with a vtrigger pop into CA.

Something else that makes chuns damage kinda bad is that she’s a character that will rarely land jumpin damage combos… something everyone else will struggle with as well, but something that Chun has to her disadvantage right off the bat with her super floaty jump.

Woudn’t you say that’s where her v-skill comes into play?

Yeah V Skill is your forward jump. It allows you to jump in at an angle that only really Chun can like a slower, farther KOF short hop. If they’re busy poking or doing something and don’t immediately react it’s pretty much a free jump in if you need it.

Chun Li is good at forcing white chip so I’ll be getting my damage mainly from that. Just playing neutral so I can turn my 60 damage normals into 100 damage normals and my 90 damage normals into 130 damage normals.

Not sure if it has been mentioned before or not, but her forward throw puts her in perfect position for a V-Skill cross up on their wake up.

@xaaz and @DevilJin

Hey all. The point about chip damage seems strange to me, being able to wear down an opponent like that is useful, but I still have some reservations about Chun Li’s capability to do so with her current tools.

The main problem is that converting white damage into real damage, requires actually landing unblocked hits on the opponent. As I see it, there are four issues which put Chun at a disadvantage in situations like this.

1) Her main safe buttons are relatively close-range, meaning that she needs to close on the opponent before she can poke safely.

This wouldn’t be a problem if she had better close-range mixup options, but without them, it makes her predictable, and open to counterpressure from throws, jabs, uppercuts, and all sorts of similar moves, when she tries to close.

Frametraps won’t help much here at the relevant ranges, cr.MP from most of the rest of the cast is +2, and will beat nearly anything she does.

2) Her throw range is low enough that the pokes required for a tick throw setup against a blocking opponent, will push that opponent back out of range, meaning that she needs to walk back toward the opponent, leaving her open, and defeating the purpose of a tick throw.

This wouldn’t come up if the opponent were in the corner, except that getting close enough to throw to start with is still risky for Chun, since in that situation, her going for a throw will be obvious. And as I understand it, most unsafe moves used by opponents which are minus on block, will also out-range her throws, meaning that she can’t use them to punish either.

3) I don’t see anything in her current moveset which lets her get in on people who play projectile characters (Ken, Ryu, Nash and similar) with a highly defensive playstyle. Kikoken helps offset the pressure from projectile spam from the corner, but since it’s a charge move, she’ll end up at a disadvantage in terms of timing (hitting QCF+P is much faster than hitting CBF+P, and other fireball attacks have better recovery).

4) All it takes is one well-timed alpha counter for the opponent to turn the situation around, negating all the white chip damage that she’s built up, and setting her up for counterpressure from the opponent. Since taking chip damage builds V-Meter, she’s basically giving them the resources that they need to do this.

Overall, I’d say that the issue isn’t so much that her ability to deal chip damage is weak, it’s that it is predictable. An opponent can just hold down-back and toss out cr.MP whenever she tries anything, and win out in the majority of cases.

If she could throw from a little further away, or if her Sen’enshu were faster, she would have more options for punishing and mixing up defensive opponents.

I don’t want to imply that she’s useless or weak in the majority of situations, but given how strong her disadvantage in that specific situation is, I think opponents will often try to force it, rendering all of her other strengths irrelevant.

@Dime_x

I agree that her Kikoken is useful for engagements, following along after it gives her some good options, and lets her apply pressure. However, I’m less sure about the other tactic that you described.

Kikoken only does like 10 chip damage on block. That setup might work situationally, but there really isn’t a strong incentive for the opponent to jump instead of just blocking. They’ll learn that they’re at a disadvantage when jumping pretty quickly, and then stop getting hit.

I definitely agree with your other point, I think her main strength is in situations where she can make the opponent come to her, and adapt between defensive and offensive tactics.

Having said all of that, I’d love to be wrong about this. I think that some minor adjustments to her character from what she was like in Beta 4 would fix a lot of the balance issues that I see here.

Does anyone see anything I’m overlooking in her moveset which would let her get around some of these problems?

I respect your opinion and appreciate how well articulated and formatted it is, but I agree with almost none of that.

But who cares. We’ve mostly all said our piece about Chun’s business. It’s almost time to play and then we can sort all this shit out for reals.

WOOOOOOOOOO!

Xaaz and others do you want to fight each other tonight or tomorrow? I need to fight other Chun’s so I can figure out what I should be doing and working on.

You really think with the games priority system that people are going to be just throwing c.mps against Chun? Especially when she has a b hp that will beat them all and crush counters?

V reversals burn V gauge so that’s a good tradeoff. Puts you back out from activating V Trigger. Plus they lose to jabs and certain mediums.

Play the game more and you’ll get around those problems. Fireballs aren’t impossible to deal with and you don’t need to be a mix up king to land hits

Is Chun’s s. mp cancellable in the retail version? I swear on Alioune’s stream, I saw him do IA legs, c. lp, s. mp x EX Kikoken, SBK (don’t know which version, but most likely LK). I couldn’t figure out how he was doing it because isn’t b+MP a command normal that’s also not special cancellable?

I can never do it on purpose, but I’m pretty sure the Kikoken/SBK is charged during the cr.lp.

Could someone please elaborate? Thanks.

Sometimes you have to fight the urge to stand up when you see an opponent jump. For instance, a character does a lp then neutral jumps to bait a throw, after you whiffed the throw with a crouchtech…just keep hol

St.mp is NOT b.mp or f.mp. those last two are command normals, st.mp is cancelable and a completely different normal. As for the combo, yea its tough.

Instant overhead is the instant headstomps. You can combo after them with air legs.

By setups I mean you can time a meaty/throw guess on their wakeup after her enders, ie: EX legs, dash, f.hk or MK SBK, dash, dash, s.mp (vs normal recovery) or b.hp (vs backroll).

Hey there guys! Having trouble with two things:

1 - Canceling a instant foot stomp into air legs… The legs are not coming out most of the time. Is there a height restriction for this? I cant the do air legs just fine (buffering the motion, doing a TK move and entering down+mk) but when i do footstomp into legs its not happening.

2 - doing the BnB st.mp, cr.mk into SBK

Any help is appreciated… Thanks!

Oh, I see. Maybe I’ve just been executing the instant headstomps wrong because my first impression was that there must be a height restriction. I found this video to show what I think you’re talking about, but can anyone confirm that this is still doable in the release version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUsDnL5ZEUY

I finally hit all 9 hits of st mp, cr mk xx sbk.

But cr hp xx legs, cr lp xx sbk is just as maddening.

I’m usually good at doing charge combos but sbk in this game is ridiculous. Help? I made a video.

http://youtu.be/G5g3Dh4z_3g

How the hell this guy makes the footstomp so low? It seems impossible for me:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eM9IDEq2QUI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgpw82JdCJI

Combo involves a walk forward and requires crouching, but that’s 500 damage baby.

I found them easy. plenty of time to charge. maybe you’re pressing something too early or late

edit: I mean the second combo. timing on first one is pretty hard

So I’m really curious how Chun-Li’s boob glitch is STILL in the game. Haven’t they known about this for almost a year? I think it was discovered at E3 2015 if I remember right.