Hey everybody! I was thinking about which thread to put this in but in the end I decided it didn’t belong to any specific character nor to “general” discussion of the game so I thought I’d just state my question here in a new thread, sorry if this has already been covered (although I’ve looked around and haven’t really found answers hehe).
Ever since I started playing the sf series I’ve been a shoto player and the moving around, integrating normals and specials into my arsenal, the normal game play flow so to speak is something I have a pretty good “feel” for when using ken and ryu and other non charge characters, like cammy or fei long for instance.
I know, of course, how to do normal charge moves and can pretty much without effort play scrubby zoning games with projectiles and such which chargers but it’s the comboing part that makes me stay away from this portion of the cast - I just never seem to get it down! You know usually in these games when you practice something, at a given moment you get that “AHA!!” feeling and you “unlock” your new move or setup or whatever it is you were practicing. Well, the times I’ve gone in practice mode I just get frustrated with chargers. Let’s say I pick guile and I want to practice a simple jump in combo that ends with a boom, similar in fashion to ryu’s BnBs… I honestly experience it as being 10 times more difficult to get the 3 hits to connect than with ryu. I have practiced and learned things with Ken, my main, that I thought were way above my skill but yet I’ve hit training mode and started to get the hang of things and eventually integrated them in my moves book and used them in matches with good results. Yet a simple charge combo to me seems like more difficult to learn than ken’s short short super. And I sure don’t think that’s the way it actually is - I mean I must be missing something!
I can get the jump in move to connect really well with the ground normal hit that supposedly is to be canceled into the charge special. I can also separate the ground moves and just do the ground normal to connect with the charge move. But it’s when I want to put the three ones together that it just won’t work.
I carry the feeling that the canceling into a charge move is MUCH more timing sensitive than with a fireball type move… is this just a notion I have from my experience or is this the way it is?
Please - if there’s anyone here that can relate to this (you charge players prolly just think I sound like a douche who simply won’t get the hang of it, which also might be the painful truth!) any advice is appreciated.
Its harder for me as well. I have problems doing regular charge moves as well as combos. Heck, I can’t tell you how many times I whiffed a simple wall dive with Vega, for example, though I think that has more to do with a crappy d-pad. But yeah, the difficulty is the reason I main “DF” characters.
The only thing that I think you could be missing is after you jump IMMEDIATLY go to down-back. Don’t want any time before charging again. If you do that it should be easy.
Jigglynorris - thanks I know this is about practice - that’s why I posted so that hopefully, I can practice more efficiently, maybe there’s something I’m doing wrong. I mean the speed with which I’ve picked up other things in the game and the incredible stagnation on my charge moves front make me wonder.
Do you mean that to you charge moves and FB type moves are, or have been, equal in terms of difficulty to learn and master?
Because to me it seems that there’s definitely a different “nac” or trick to charge combos…
Fulaani - thanks yeah I am trying to go back into charge mode as soon as my sprite leaves the ground… what I think is messing things up for me is the moment where the hits actually should land. It is as if I couldn’t handle having to put in two hits in rapid succession then RIGHT after do the charge move. I suspect the difference in rhythm in comparison to say, a 3hit shoto jump in combo, makes me mistime something there…
For instance cr. Mp - > flashkick is not hard for me to do. It’s when there’s a jump in right before that somehow my timing is off… And when I practice it - I get the three hitter like 1-2/10 times but I don’t seem to bring myself any closer to actually understanding the nac hehe… unlike other things where I’ve practiced and gone from 0/10 to 8/10 etc and felt how I was capable of teaching myself the move.
The best thing I can tell you is that if you want to do a jump in combo that ends in a charge move, be absolutely sure you start charging the instant you leave the ground.
Also, make sure you cancel the ground attack into the special very quickly. You probably do this with Qcf characters without even thinking about it, because you can use a normal attack to start the motion of a special move (for example, C.Mk xx Hadouken has you already starting the Hadouken motion).
Someone here (I can’t remember who) stated this in a really good way: When you just do a single move into a charge special, the timing seems lenient, but you have to do it as fast as possible if you’re doing multiple hits. So, instead of thinking of it as (J.Hk / S.Hp xx Sonic Boom), think of it as (J.Hk / S.HpSonicboom), if that makes any sense. Treat the normal-into-special as an urgent, immediate maneuver.
So here’s the rule of thumb: whenever you can do sequence A properly but when adding B to the beginning of the sequence causes you problem, always always always practice the transition from B to the START of A, but skip everything after the start.
So if Jump Fierce, low Strong, Razor Kick is giving you problems, but Low Strong Razor Kick is easy, do this: practice Jump Fierce into Low Strong. That’s it. Seriously. Practice it without ever moving the joystick away from Down Back. Get comfy with that timing of the Jump Attack to the ground attack. Once you get that down, tacking on the Razor Kick part should be easier.
There IS a chance you aren’t charging up long enough. So try this: learn to Jump at the opponent, SKIP the Jump Fierce, land and do the Crouch Strong into Razor Kick you said you know how to do just fine. If you cannot get the Razor Kick out in time, you are not charging fast enough after Jumping (yes, the Jump Fierce DOES freeze you in the air longer so that you can charge up longer, but Guile SHOULD be able to to empty Jump Low Strong into Razor Kick I believe. If not, just land for a half a second and then do it. The timing is about the same). If you can never get this out, you need to practice charging sooner.
Thanks for the tip Skankin Garbage, the way that phrase was put together did make sense and help and I’m trying to get it in my fingers now
cheers
EDIT: Jchensor your post got up as I wrote this one before editing now hehe… Really good advice on how I can practice - thanks a BUNCH for that. I had formulated similar thoughts but you reassured and clarified them very well with your response, I’ll defo make good use of the training you suggested, you the man!
Jump in combos that end with a charge special really just are a little harder to do from my experience. Try to hit the special “a little late”. That worked fine for me. When I learned this I did the cancel too fast and so lacked the charge or something else. Apart from that, the normals have to be timed very well too, if you do j.rh too early, you have to do the link earlier and so you have to do the cancel earlier which again - doesn’t give you enough charge time.
choose Dictator. He has a really long, floaty jump with lots of time to charge.
try this combo, its the easiest one i find:
Jump (immediately charge back), and do a deep roundhouse kick.
as soon as the roundhouse lands, start hammering short to get:
stand short
stand short
then whack the d-pad or stick forward to get:
short scissor kick (or piano all the kicks)
i find it pretty easy, and from there you can work on other ones. Guiles are actually quite tricky as his jump ins have odd timing (e.g. fierce). Dictator just sticks his leg out and does the business.
If anything I’d say its easier than commands. With Dictator’s 3 hit ToD for example, J.Roundhouse, Cr.Forward, Fierce PC, pressing forward and and punch is a lot easier than punch, DP motion.
it’s just different strokes for different folks really
I picked up Ryu and by the end of a week I could land his 4-5 hit links before I could do DPs from the 2P side of the screen (This is still a HUGE issue and the reason I don’t play shotos), I’m much more of a ‘buttons guy’ which is why I play charge characters pretty exclusively. I will agree charge combos don’t quite ‘flow’ like joystick motion ones do. But I’ve been forced to have a lot better sense of timing so charge combos are no obstacle for me. Practice time will solve everything though. Maybe it’s just not meant to be easy for you?
But I can do Dictator and Deejay combos pretty consistently. Don’t know if that means that chargers are hard, but some charge character’s combos are definitely harder than others.
Just learn who you like playing more. For me that was not Guile.
It took me 10 years to learn charge combos…nah, just kidding. = D
Just keep on practicing them, and I’m sure you will pick it up. I found Dictator and Dee Jay harder than Guile. With Dictator’s crossup combos, I find ending with a Crusher is easier than Scissors since it takes less charge time for the Crusher. With Dee Jay, you gotta have rhythm mon!!
Just wanted to drop a thank you note to replyers here, I’ve been reading your tips and also done my homework in training mode and I have seen lots of improvement!
One thing that seems funny to me is that after a while with bison I had a really hard time doing for instance, jump in RH - > cr.MK xx scissors, but no problem at all doing the same string only ending it with fierce psycho instead of scissors. HOWEVER, when I started practicing the jump in RH - > stand LK - > cr. MK link, I could cancel into scissors without much trouble… It’s like the link in between gives me extra time to get my shit (finger muscles) together for that normal XX charge special than if I’d just try and do it directly from a jump in hehe, I don’t know maybe it’s just me
Guile’s jump ins are kind of weird yeah… but what I am doing now is kind of learning the best way to time the jump in so that instead of mashing out the normal that’s going to be canceled into the charge special I try to properly “link” it and only push my button once, to have better control of the situation and time the charge move precisely and not in a sort of “spammy” way… I dunno, but it feels that technique is better in the long run to me… any thoughts on that? Either way, be it guile’s strange aerial punches or bison’s floaty legs, I find that using that more “precise” approach requires you to have good control over the jump in anyway so in guile’s case I just adapted and tried to figure out exactly when in the aerial arch I should press the punch button etc…
Anyway, thanks again all I’m getting there step by step
That’s because the double knee press has the longest charge time in the game whereas the psycho crusher is tied for shortest time. If you don’t immediately charge, you won’t get it.
That’s why most dic players stick with psycho crusher for their crossup combos instead of risking having enough charge for the double knee press. The latter actually involves delaying moves long enough for the charge to build up but not enough for the opponent to get out of hitstun, which is pretty difficult to time.
And yeah, the rule of thumb for doing combos right is to press it a single time instead of mashing (unless you’re performing a special where any button will do). Esp. for links, mashing is far less consistent than timed tapping.
For more information about cancelling regular moves into special moves or super moves…
READ MY FAQ!!! (I say that a lot these days.)
Read my HDR Cross-up, Link, and Combo FAQ on GameFAQs.com. It’s being revised, but there’s still a lot of useful information in there…including what I just mentioned.
You can also get a lot of useful information off of http://nki.combovideos.com/ and it gets even more useful when you look at the SF Technical Info links.
