Samus can’t really kill but I mean…air grapple is really really nice and spammable. You could use it in place of short hopped missiles I supposed, since missiles are just kinda meh this time around.
I don’t really see why Yoshi is bad though. He’s got a lot of hard hitting attacks, a spike, does pretty good damage, can actually recover now. I mean, what exactly is so bad about him?
Sometimes it’s not a matter of why a character is bad, but a matter of why they aren’t as good as the others.
Know what I mean?
Learning Curve.
Low priority.
Other than that his natural design is fairly improved, he just isn’t broken is all.
Samus seems really slow on the ground but very nimble in the air to me, I don’t know how it was in melee but in smash64 if you got hit with a fully charged shot it did 36% and even if you were at 0% you went flying across the screen, in brawl it does 25% n terrible knockback WTF? It takes a while to charge it up fully so while the 25% damage isn’t a big concern the knocknack is because it sucks, also I don’t know shit about samus but after trying her out for 15 minutes in training mode she doesn’t exactly scream greatness.
WS you got a good yoshi he seems decent to me especially that eggroll it’s hella fast and can rack up damage nicely.
G&W
Overview:
“He has received a lot of buffs, everything about him has gotten better from his damage, to his priority, to his knockback. Bair rapes shields, and the parachute at the end of his UpB actually does wonders for his recovery. Too bad he’s still extremely light and dies out easily to characters with good vertical kills.”
I feel that this character has been placed too low. The fact that he is light isn’t as much of a factor when you look at how easily he can can KO. All 3 off his smashes KO very early, often time below 100%. Fairly large disjointed hitboxes on his aerials plus reliable recovery make him very good at offstage edge-guards. Down throw allows for wake up games. Three of his aerials have negligible landing lag and are all very useful. His bucket is a great tool against some spamming based characters. G&W mains have been placing very high in tournaments hosted at swf, noticeably in the midwest. He is top tier imo
The hatred is strong in this thread.
So fucking strong lol.
Get more people to agree with your opinion then he’ll be top tier.
Geee Dubz fo LYFE.
Was I the only one who thought GW was good in melee?
d.tilt was soooo much better in melee thats all i liked lol
Hes much better now though. Match is so fucking strong.
last thing I’ll say about samus: Dair is beastly.
On nerfing: just because a character is good does not mean they need to be nerfed. Samus didn’t need to be made worse; everyone else just needed to be made better. She was fucking fine the way she was.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!
More hatred.
PLZ FEED ME SRK!!!
MAKE ME STRONG!!!
lol.
Also I’m not elitist. haha.
Rep represents your life worth, take it seriously.
Corner-trap can you at least have the tiers without the spoilers etc lumped at the top, and then have a section with the matchups/spoilers? It’s really hard to get a quick glance at the tiers right now.
Also I’m starting to agree with Ganon in bottom tier. He’s just too slow and too immobile, and he doesn’t get as much advantage from landing his command grab as I’d originally thought.
I just realized a tier list was being compiled on the front page… so I guess I’ll comment.
Falco- SHDL is about his only OMG WOW tool, and most crawlers can get under it for free, as well as anyone with a reflector. Otherwise, he’s an above-average character with a few neat tricks and a good air game. Considering half of the listed top tier can counter SHDL (Snake, Pit, Wolf) and Metaknight really just goes above it and ignores it… a good possibility for high on the high tier, maybe the top of it.
Wolf- I don’t think he’s better then Falco, SHDL or not. By mentioning Falco going down, I kinda feel like I gotta mention Wolf going down as well, even if I can’t explain it as well. Gimptastic recovery and a meh projectile are probably the main issues- it seems harder to get a kill setup with Wolf then the other spacies too, since he doesn’t have any really good gimp tools or smashes that don’t get him punished if dodged/blocked (Wolf’s F-smash is particularly good at leaving Wolf in shield-grab range)
Ice Climbers- Theory Fighter doesn’t tier characters- results and what’s actively being done does. Strider/Doom was, until certain system discoveries, considered to be unbeatable with perfect execution. Problem was, no one executes perfectly. The Ice Climbers have the same issue, compounded with some really daffy weaknesses. For someone who wants to grab a lot, they got a pretty crummy approach, and a lot of characters have ways to scatter them on the way in, which ruins anything you’re going to do once you get in. Their ‘awesome’ camping projectile are slow, weak, and easy to counter (most basic As can turn 'em around. ROB’s UNCHARGED gyro can stop them for it’s entire duration) Anyone with a lot of priority can give them fits, as does anyone who can pop them into the air, since their air game is pretty bad. I play Icies, and I like them a lot, but they’re good characters with a number of problems, and have no business currently being top of the high tier- probably closer to the bottom of it, actually. If people can start figuring out how to stop getting scattered and actually approach half the cast before everyone else figures out how to scatter them even easier, then we can talk get hype.
Game and Watch- Up. Big up. The most successful ‘on the attack’ character in the game right now. Turtle eats shields and stays out longer then most dodges. Key eats shields and shoves opponents away with two hits for happy landings. Manhole picks at shields and covers bighuge areas. Down throw gives Ganondoorf F+B tech chase mindgames in a character fast enough to actually be scary with it. G&W is the best vertical chaser in the game thanks to the extremely fast Fire and his ability to attack after it. Three smashes that can kill most characters reliably at low percentages, a semi-spike in his neutral B (Physically hit with the pan). Down+A hammer makes rolling anywhere near G&W really dumb. Octopus is practically a Landmaster in that it lives forever, is extremely difficult to dodge, and frequently ends in a kill whenever G&W successfully gets it… and thanks to Mr. Turtle, the Fishbowl, and Fire, G&W has a really easy time getting it compared to much of the cast. High on High tier, or low on Top.
Lucas- Up. Great camping projectiles, great attacks with lot of disjointing, absurdly powerful up-smash that covers him like a shield against air attacks, down smash that can cover the edge and is big enough to prevent sweet-spotting from mostly-horizontal recoveries, secondary tether giving a lot of options off the stage, and faster then his stubby self looks. All that and one of the best tripping moves in the game in his down tilt, which can set up for his smashes.
Pikachu- Up. He’s pretty much easy mode. His Down-Smash rapes, Thunder is pretty much safe if you’re not dumb and start it when the guy’s right next to you, can kill at really good percentages thanks to a strong F Smash and U Smash (plus Thunder) and has one of the best recoveries in the game for someone without a million jumps or a hover up+B. Has some decent abuse and can Guile-style chase after his projectile, making him unique in a camp-friendly character who can directly use his projectiles to switch to offense. At very least, low on the high tier.
Jigglypuff- Down. Number of things going for her, countered pretty much by the number of matchups that’d be represented as 9-1 or 8-2 on a matchup list. Anyone with good hit boxes or a strong projectile wall kinda just gobbles her up, and that’s most of the top and high tier. Doesn’t help that her kill potential is pretty bad- even Wall of Pain requires quite a bit of doing on Jiggle’s part to get 'em dead. Not good when you’re the easiest kill in the game.
Ivysaur- Up. Best of the PokeTrio at both building damage and getting kills. Huge range, huge grapples, huge smashes, and pretty fast, too. Really good at screwing with other character’s air games. Bullet Seed is nuts. Up-smash is nuts. Hitting with Vine Whip is nuts. Recovery is bad, but not so bad as to prevent Ivysaur from being the best of the three. (PT really needs to be seperately ranked- best way to deal with Ivysaur’s bad recovery? Down-B when percentages start to get in the 100% range)
Captain Falcon and Mario- The hell? Huge overreactions. Still two solid, if not terribly impressive basic characters who just haven’t benefited too much from the new game. Captain Falcon’s still an extremely fast, heavy character who hits hard and has a lot of ways to kill some one. Mario’s still pretty much Mr. Average, and outside his new difficulties getting kills is still a rather solidly-built character with a lot going for him in terms of his standard attacks and one of the better aggressive projectiles in the dropping Fireball. Have a hard time seeing how either of them is worse then most of the lower parts of the mid tier, forget the low and bottom tiers- especially Falcon, who’s got one of the best approaches thanks to a number of protected, advancing special attacks and just absurd foot speed coupled with nice long limbs. Seriously, C.Falcon gets in with just run -> jumping dodge -> run from across FD in the same time it takes Toon Link to pull the bow out for a second attack.
-_- Ike is not that bad. He is not a good character to use for beginners but with practice he can become a really good one; I purposely train with Ike against Falco and trust me, that blue-haired bird would have a hard time landing a hit on me. At least the level nine computer would. XDD
Sure, I’ll throw one up top.
Yeah some characters crouching or crawling animations can go under the bottom laser, and it can be reflected, but it’s still good none the less.
I agree that Falco is better overall, just because he’s more well rounded.
Early tier lists will always have a bit of theory fighter in them. The IC’s don’t have to grab to win matches, and their approach is above average when you compare it to the rest of the cast. Doing NeutralB then chasing after it, mashing SideB, and SH into DownB are all good approaches, but best of all are their desynch approaches. Separating the IC’s is a lot harder in Brawl because they resynch faster. Their desynched ice blocks “are” a very good camping tool, and it being weak and slow doesn’t hinder that since you’re not trying to raise the opponents percent, you’re trying to force them to approach or negate their projectile spam. And only characters with a “lot” of priority can give them fits because their priority is already good. Check some of the IC vids that are up now and see that it’s more than simple theory fighter.
I agree with all three, but for now I think Pikachu should be at the top of mid tier. If more people think he should be moved up then I’ll move him up.
I guess I’ll move her to the bottom of the mid tier.
I have yet to see a single player use Ivysaur to any efficiency. I need to actually see some good players use her.
Captain Falcon may have fast movement speed, but I don’t think we should count his specials as good approaches since he’s at a disadvantage if shielded. Most people just simply agreed that neither of them were very good when compared to the other characters.
EDIT:
Ike is one of the most beginner friendly characters in the game. I’ve seen people pick him up in a couple of minutes. All thats required is for you to have a basic understanding of what spacing is.
…Right. But I honestly don’t think he should be that low on the tier list.
He’s mid tier, whats wrong with that?
CT, I think he means Falcon who’s riding Bottom Tier.
On another point, I’m in favor of setting up the tier list in a character ranking style to help show the classes better. The mid-bottom tier are solid choices, which a ranking style would show more effectively in my opinion.
Sounds nice. I thought it showed Ike as low-tier. XD;;;