I don’t think Olimar’s s-tier. He has a couple really rotten matchups (like vs. wolf) and probably the worst recovery in the game. I’d put him about mid-tier.
…seriously.
You guys are underestimating Wario. The longer the time limit on a match, the more deadly he gets (more full blast farts). His bite can effectively shut down a large portion of the cast (characters with poor range). And in a short game, he can play it patient, get his one fart kill at around a minute left, and use his ridiculous air manuevability and recovery to run the rest of the match with little fear.
he definitely has some bad matchups (vs sword people especially), but low-mid tier? I dont think so.
What about Our Favorite Captain? I finally start getting back into him and rediscovering why he was my favorite for much of Melee, and now he’s like a flattened carcass compared to previous. He got run over one too many times by the Blue Falcon. I hope beyond hope that he’ll have the Melee trait of doing well just by killing top tiers, but the fact that Our Lord of KOs is so much worse, and things seem much more balanced, so a few good matchups aren’t enough anymore. RIP Falcon. We’ll miss you. :sad: Please, prove me wrong and show the world that he’s still good ol’ Falcon. Until then, I’ll have to be boring and play Marth.
I think some are forgetting Bowser can KO you, if he catches you right. very possible to KO before the 80% on MOST characters that give him trouble (Like Zelda or Metaknight. D3 and Snake, just laugh at Bowser, seriously) and if he can’t KO them by normal means, then he has his FAB(Final Atomic Bowser, for the less informed) to fall back on (when used acoordingly) and not just for Bowsercides either, Bowser loves levels with walk offs, he doesn’t even have to suicide then.
I honestly believe Bowser has better match ups here than in Melee, with or with out items. And IMHO, it all comes from his FAB, hard hitting attacks, christmas throw game, and staying power. But you can’t ignore his bad match ups either. Being Big an slow is the obvious drawback, pretty damn stupid when you airdodge but when you go into recovery, you still get hit.
If I were to place him anywhere, I’d put him in the lower part of the Mid Tier catagory. He is far from the best, but uh. He ain’t shit neither.
and LOL on 4649 saying Charizard n Ike Bottom tier, Rock Smash n Super Armor much? :wonder:
C- tier is accurate in my opinion. A lot of people put Ike too high for just the fact he can kill super quick unless the Ike plays against someone who is really patient and Shield grabs all day.
I don’t see Sonic as a problem with a lot of characters other than the big ones.
I will base the top 5 of of control of the playing field In my experience:
Pit
Marth
TL
MK
Wolf
Now for the ones who can give those top five a lot of trouble (in no particular order:
Fox
DDD
Zelda?
Diddy
Falco
Pikachu
ZSS
Peach
ROB
Keits is talking some truth about Wario. He can fuck most of the cast or hang with them very well other then Swords or some Disjointed hit boxes.
I want to put Olimar in there based on videos but idk. Falco just don’t seem that good to me to be top like some of the SB people say.
If anyone wants to discuss from here thats cool. The game is somewhat balanced
I don’t think he’s top tier, but more than likely upper or mid tier. Main things holding him back are some seriously bad matchups and terrible recovery.
At what percent does Wario’s fart KO?
Yeah, C.Falcon has been nerfed to all hell in both damage and knockback. It doesn’t even make sense on why he was nerfed because he was one of the most balanced characters in the game. He had fairly even matchups even against low tiers.
I definitely think Bowser won’t be bottom tier like in Melee, I think he should move up to lower tier.
Ike’s damage, knockback, range, and priority all make up for his lack of speed. And he does have a few quick moves to move in on his opponent like Bair, Neutral A, and his tilts.
EDIT:
Peach’s turnips don’t instantly disappear after hitting the opponent. They disappear after hitting the ground, so you can bounce it off the opponent and re-catch them. But after a few hits they instantly disappear without hitting the ground. Yeah, peach has definitely been nerfed but is still usable. Probably moved down to mid tier.
And Luigi is definitely better from Melee, but I still think he’s in mid tier. He does well in a lot of areas but it’s just that other characters out do him.
EDIT #2:
So you’re saying that if Wario blocks then he can own Ike? You have me a little confused with your wording.
I’m trying to base these tiers on the characters abilities, not how well they can use items.
Can anyone explain to me why Peach is still considered upper tier? Her down smash has been nerfed to all hell, she can’t do float cancels and her turnips disappear after hitting an enemy or their shield (fortunately, you have a higher chance of getting beam swords and such). She’s got more kill moves now, but the main things that defined her in Melee (turnips and down smash) have been nerfed. Maybe she’s like Fox in that even with some nerfs, she stays strong and is able to compete.
I probably said this already, but Luigi is serious business in Brawl. I’d put him in the upper tier, but some may disagree. Great aerials, Down B (the cyclone), a fireball for zoning, setups into SRK (Up B), and less slippery all serve to make him beastier than his bro and capable of competing with the higher tiered characters.
Luigi is tight! Upper tier I would agree on. Disjointed hit boxes hurt him though.
CT: You have a point but that can’t really save him against Wario(No fanboy-ism) If you block damn good there is little problems against him.
The way Im playing (items on), the tiers are going to be more loose. This is a good thing for variety in my opinion.
If you want to talk about tiers without them though, they get slightly more rigid (although every character seems to have SOMETHING going for them). Its pretty obvious that everyone has enough ups to compete, but the bottom of the heap seems to be Mario, Falcon, and maybe Sonic.
Sonic yeah. Falcon can still put up some fight and so can Mario.
If any character just block Ike’s attacks I see no problems fighting him. Wario after shielding most of Ike’s attacks will lead in SH to Ike gaining percentage in various ways. Like playing with other Heavyweights Ike needs to pick shots. Thats how I observe it.
I think Sonic is either lower or bottom tier, but definitely not higher than that. His attacks don’t do much damage, or knockback. He doesn’t have much range or priority, and strangely his attacks aren’t all that fast(some of a bit of startup lag). His movement speed is fast though, but he doesn’t have much going for him.
EDIT:
Ouch!
Wario vs Sonic is a hilarious match up if you’ve never seen/tried it. Bite beats nearly everything sonic has to approach with.
About 75% of Sonic’s moves lose to the bite. I tested that shit.
Oh and I don’t see Sheik being top but close to its placement in Melee
Who has a hard time with Zelda?
Ike’s upper tier as of now, IMO.
- Insane damage and knockback
- High survivability
- One of the best moves in the game (his AAA combo)
- Good throw range
- Awesome ledgestall
- Good recovery
And other fun stuff, such as an talent for ganking people from getting back to the edge. Another big thing with Ike is that even though everyone says, “you can just shield and beat him”…you’d better not screw up. Like, at all. Because Ike also happens to punish mistakes harder than just about anyone in the game and just one screw up could lead to being KTFO at 50% from an F-Smash to the face.
Zelda’s definitely upper at the least, she might even be top. They made her way good in this game.
Wario vs Sonic is so fucking terrible.
Also Snake’s tilts = Marth’s tilts in range.
His hitboxes are retarded. Snake is top tier for sure.
Also Marth loses to Snake in the match-up. So does MK.
My random thoughts are as follows.
Ike is high tier. Mid tier at worst.
Peach is mid tier at best.
Zelda should be top tier. She has kill set-ups with her d-tilt which makes you trip or puts you in stun. She gets a free smash after that, usually an u-smash. At higher percents it juggles and the window to escape is very small. Even if you airdodge you still take the hit.
Din’s Fire is stupid. And she still has lightning kicks. Her U-smash is a shield killer and totally spammable.
Marth and MK are bottom of top tier. Spammers give them trouble.
Captain Falcon, Yoshi, Ganon, are definitely bottom tier.
Wario is high tier. So is Shiek. She can chain f-tilt all day into w/e.
Marth loses to Snake on the ground. Marth usually SH fairs to get stuff started. Snake has a chance. MK loses to Snake? I need to hear more because Snake is my favorite character but he loses this in my eyes because MK can SH into anything… I can’t see Snake being top maybe just maybe upper mid but I’ll say a solid mid.
U-tilt and f-tilt stuff the hell out of any SH approach.
You cannot approach Snake.
You will get merked.
Snake does have crazy tilts but A Marth approach? Cheap ass tiara wearing cupcake approach? I need demonstrations.
QFT best 2 posts in this entire thread, though I disagree bout gannon being bottom tier he’s definitely at least low mid and at best top of the mid.
It’s still early and because everyone is viable at least somewhat competitively getting a clearly defined tier list will take a while but most if not all of the top are more or less universally known by now to be:
(in no particular order and if you disagree please post why)
snake
MK
marth
wolf
toon link
zelda (not just because of dinns fire but her sidekick thingy does INSANE knock back:wasted:)
For the record snake is a bad matchup for MK not only because of f-tilt but because his bombs do hella knock back to MK and he has really good KO power, though I don’t think it’s a total loss for MK i’d say 70-30.
?
I can’t see Snake a bad match up for MK. MK is faster than Snake attack and movement wise. A rushdown on Snake from the ground or air is trouble. And the tornado…I barely get away with this match sometimes not at all. I’ll have to do more testing and look for more videos. Putting Snake in the top tier is saying he has control of the playing field all the time.