ANY jump…ANY jump you do he can punish. I don’t see why you’re acting as though you know the specifics when you just said you’re not even accustomed to ryu saving his bar for super. As far as i’m concerned, the ryu players that don’t know how to do this are the ones you don’t really need to worry about, and since that’s the only kind you’re focused on i can’t see why youd even bring it up. It’s like comparing sagats that can’t kara cancel to ones who can.
I wasn’t about to discuss seth or viper with you at all, that’s just my own experience with them.
Why not? Normal throws only effect grounded opponents, why can’t they adjust it so that guiles airthrow can toss someone in a juggle state?
Bingo, i was saying that made sense awhile ago
Wow, look at all that beautiful range on his normals that has been nerfed…
my bad, and actually read these boards a long time ago when there was serious discussion of it. I just think its worth stressing at this point - as a sort of summary of where we’re at in the guile improvement discussion - that a combo into airthrow is not an* alternative proposal *but an *additional *proposal to the comboable sonic hurricane. If thats where the general consensus is at, then consider my statement only a reminder or a reiteration. No trolling intended.
I mean imagine a non-Guile fan - for example, your average Capcom employee - coming across these boards and seeing people talking about comboing into airthrow and combo into ultra. Which suggestion are they going to want to recommend to the developers? Prolly the one that keeps Guile to his current guns more (as Capcom seems to be ever niggardly with respect to buffs as opposed to nerfs) and so the one into airthrow. Its worth putting your foot down and saying which suggestion is the bare minimum acceptable buff and whats just aesthetic fluff.
Not to say advertising to Capcom is the only purpose of this board (although the title suggests it), because its just worth clarifying to general viewers too. Just my two cents.
I really almost hope that it’s like a useful taunt and not just another alternate costume. Put sunglasses on all sonic booms get knockdown property or something like all sonic booms are sped up to hp SB version speed.
Shootdown backgreaker is not a regular throw though. It falls in the same category as Rose Soul Throw, and other command air throws. connecting something that from a juggle state is fine. Because besides some range and animation, it doesn’t share any properties with a real throw.
However Robotic Elfs said Gief's ultra is a 720 throw in the air, meaning it's likely to have a lot of the same properties of a regular throw. This is stupid in my opinion. not sure why something like this would be allowed. REsets are different from combos anyway. I'm saying even in a juggle state, why would you make someone throwable? I'm sure if you made someone from a juggle state throwable, then you should be able to connect any throw from a juggle state, even a ground one, since an air throw is really just a regular throw in the air. No matter where they are falling from, it's STILL a juggle state. If you don't think this is an highly exploitable system, I don't know what to tell you. I can imagine there will be a lot of glitches and exploit from this. It's not worth keeping in,just to give Guile a fancy combo.
I know enough about this super to know what it can and can’t do. It can punish any jump like if you jump at a standing Ryu, and he unloads his super. But that’s not a safe jump anyway. He could do the SAME thing in ST. That’s why you wouldn’t be jumping at Ryu with an ultra stocked. And this is true for anyone who jumps at Ryu, not just Guile. Boxer has this problem even more. And unlike Guile, Balrog actually NEEDs to jump.
Yes, punishing jump with super is an options. But I assumed no one would be stupid enough jump in the first place. Sorry, I just assumed this is Guile vs. Ryu when the Guile doesn’t do stupid stuff. I would never jump at a stocked Ryu with super.
but if Ryu has super loaded, and I clealy can’t jump his fireballs, I have other options. Match his fireballs with sonic boom. I’ll build up meter. If he just insist on holding his super, guess what? I’m building ex meter. It still balances out in my opinion. I don’t make a habit of ever jumping in matches, unless it’s a neutral jump. I know that option is taken away from me when Ryu has meter. So why not just build meter from there? It’s the same thing I’d do in ST, and this scenario isn’t drastically different. In either case, it’s a neutral situation. I can reposition myself becuse he won’t burn EX, and if he does, then he loses that option.
That’s not really an issue with the difficulty of the links though, that’s an issue with the quality of online play. I like having to hit 1 frame links. Learning how to plink has increased my accuracy by a ton.
“The game runs at 60fps, so this means the SB takes less than a second to charge for. Looking at the frame data, Ryu’s FB has 45 frames. In case you didn’t know 45 frames is less than 55 frames. This is why Ryu will always win in a projectile fight. Sagat’s FB has 39 frames, so Guile gets beat even worse.”
Yea…whatever man. You already said you haven’t even come across a ryu who uses his super so what are you arguing about?
Why did you ignore the vast majority of my statement when writing your response? Shoot down back breaker unlike Falling sky (Abel) or SFIV Soul Throw (Rose) has a lot in common with a throw and not just a normal attack. It can’t be parried and functions similarly to an air throw that cannot be teched. They do share some properties with a throw, a lot in fact, especially when checking Chun, Ibuki etc in relation to fireballs for single hits and air throws. --;
More importantly you completely ignored my statements on Chun’s air throw out of juggle state against Sim in CE. Just not responding to a section of what I said doesn’t prevent it from existing.
No, not no matter where they’re falling from is it a juggle state, nor is it long enough for an air throw to go off.
Again you ignored what I said about juggle states versus falling and resets. Air throws connecting to a juggle state opponent requires one of a few potential things. Either throws have the juggle property on them allowing it off of all air knock downs that they recover in time (Shoryu, flash kick, etc.) Can follow up launchers (Sakura’s EX tatsu, Rufus’ stand roundhouse etc.) or get a special state. People who are reset can’t be hit by jack shiz no matter what kind of attack it is so this doesn’t effect air trades aside from ones that leave someone in juggle state which is only Chun’s Jump fierce for air throwing characters. Ok so what would it allow things to function after? Note that you can’t TK air throws, you need to near the apex of your jump in order to air throw so that means in order to hit on top of them needing to be in the air in launch or juggle state you also need an arse load of time to reach the apex of your jump after the attack hits, which really limits it to FADC situations thanks to chun being the only one who really has stuff that leaves in aerial juggle state that has low recovery.
Your statement on ground throws being able to connect is also wrong as aerial state juggle is still aerial and would not allow ground throw properties unless it specifically allowed ground throws to hit launched/knockdown state.
Despite all my arguing with you I don’t actually really have much of a preference on how it ends up working since the amount it adds to his game would be fairly negligible. He can get slightly more damage off of crouch strong xx flash kick FADC air throw, but really 2 gauges for 120 more damage isn’t going to suddenly make Guile a beast, adjusting his normals will have a far greater effect on the character and that would just be icing on the cake.
Also to amend what Woooo said. In this game Ryu can cancel a hadouken into shinku, that’s majorly different from previous games, so he can wait for you to react to start up and be able to super cancel to add a lot more spaces and times you cannot jump. It’s not as solid as Seth’s sonic boom–>ultra game, but it’s far from as simple asnot doing any blatantly stupid jumps, you need to restrict your actions a lot more when he has it if he’s at all intelligent.
I don’t see whats wrong with being able to air throw in a juggle, I mean you were able to do that in the EX series, you were able to do a launcher followed with an air throw for those who had an airthrow and a way to put your opponent in a juggle state.
First of all, the EX series is garbage or as they say in Italian…garbito lolol. Secondly I don’t think it would be considered a combo since a throw isn’t a hit aka the damage would be unreal.
People should just accept that even if we could FK FADC air throw… It would not necessarily make it a good idea. I’d rather use meter for FK FADC to get a safe wake up or to shoot people in the face with EX Boom.
Not saying its a good idea, i’m saying implementing the idea of being given a guaranteed airthrow after a juggle state would be feasible.
Yeah in EX the damage scaling was lacking, since there were so many excel combos that led to certain death or in the case of chun li, if you got hit by her lightning legs you were basically dead since there was an infinite loop with it.
The airthrow didn’t actually “count” in the combo counter but it was a guaranteed followup basically, it wasn’t a reset or anything of the sort.
I know I’m not the only Guile around that just FADC’s flashkicks on wakeup wether they hit or not. Shit’s too quick to hit confirm, so yeah I might as well be able to tack on that extra damage instead of the traditional wakeup flashkick, FADC, dash forward, dash back, dash forward dance
How does that exaggerated claim warrant such a change? Why do you think it is justified? The idea sounds poor to me as there are other ways to improve Guile in this game instead of frivolous changes that would be better focused on logic improvements. I would rather see his current tools re-worked and modified to be effective instead of this crap.
I agree that there are more important things than FADC air throw, but the idea still has some merit. One of Guile’s main problems in SF4 is that he does no damage. Giving the air throw juggle properties won’t break any match ups and it won’t fix any of Guile’s glaring problems, but it is a step in the right direction towards improving Guile’s damage.
