Feels like school.
Honda’s ultra is absolutely a better anti-air than Guile’s, in pretty much every aspect. The main reason is the hitbox. Guile’s ultra shares the same shitty properties as Flash Kick, meaning even if you time it right, it trades with a bunch of jump-ins or straight up gets stuffed. This is far less common with Honda’s ultra because its hitbox is pretty much like a shield around Honda that goes into full animation/damage whether it connects with the chest or feet. Also, you can catch someone doing an empty jump with Honda, you just have to do it a bit earlier…like someone already said, the 4 frame slower startup is irrelevant since we’re talking about people jumping at characters w/ ultra sitting on charge. Even the imput is more advantageous for Honda since he can hold any back to charge instead of having to obviously sit there on down back. Also the range is longer and if you do whiff or have it blocked, Guile’s recovery is like 5 times as long as Honda’s.
They both suck but Guile’s just sucks a little harder.
Unless this game gets renamed to 3sII, it ain’t gonna happen so to argue it is a bit redundant.
All charge characters in SF4 (as you know) use a charge command for Ultra. Yes, it’s slower then shotos but that wasn’t the argument.
He said that it’s hard to pull of and I stated the contrary. It’s not any harder then charge.front>back>front>back>3buttons. It’s really easier.
Unless we’re talking about comboing into it. Thats a whole different story.
Recover from what dude? We’re talking about charge time. You know…hold b, f+p…hold d, u+k. It takes Guile 55 frames to do this(less than 1 second at 60fps).
Look, just do this. Go get the PC version of SF4 if you don’t already have it and download AutoIT. It’s a macro program for your PC. Now create a new macro and enter this macro, then run it. Press the 0 key on your keyboard to run this…
*HotKeySet(‘0’, ‘SonicBoom’); Sonic Boom to the right
While 1
Sleep(100)
WEnd
Func SonicBoom()
Send(’{down down}’)
Send(’{left down}’)
Sleep(912)
Send(’{left up}’)
Send(’{down up}’)
Send(’{right down}’)
Send(’{a down}’)
Sleep(17)
Send(’{a up}’)
Send(’{right up}’)
EndFunc; SonicBoom*
Guile will throw a sonic boom. Notice the “sleep(912)” This is how many milliseconds you hold your charge for. Now go do the math! It’s less than a second. If it took any longer than 912 milliseconds like you are suggesting, this macro wouldn’t let Guile throw a sonic boom.
You’ve been playing that long and still don’t understand that charge partitioning doesn’t make your charge time less, it just “breaks up” your charges. Hence the word partition
Doesn’t charge partitioning require you to dash also? I don’t remember any other use of charge partitioning besides Urien’s unblockable set up.
No
[media=youtube]nGfJx0WwwZE[/media]
You can turn it around, what buffs do you want?
Don’t worry, Gilley, I got you: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=205008
Unless there’s anything else you’d like to add…?
sorry if i repeat, too long for me to read every post.
i would like to say make him more like how he was in CvS2. stronger priority normals and a bigger hitbox for his sonic kick. i wouldnt want to change him much. guile is guile cause of his moves. the only thing i would add is the handcuffs (just cause its old school)
Nice, if you two were around more often i bet there would be less “Guile dun’t need nah buffs, l2p!” posts. It’s not as bad now but it’s really puzzling how that thread is so well-reasoned and logical and this thread is so contrary
Was watching NicoNico Mark play. It’s hard to believe Guile is low tier sometimes.
It’s 43 frames fwiw.
And again, charge partitioning split your charge up, it didn’t make the charge requirement shorter, it just held it…
1.Flash Kick
What they need to do is they have to fix guile’s FK somehow. HITBOX CHANGE so that it’s the same as other versions of Guile, lk flashkick -15 on block, does not travel forward while HK flashkick does trave fairly far forward
2.Damage Output
Because i noticed that his damage was somewhat similar based on that page to his CVS2 version, i am 100% sure that Guile would benefit more from having more possible links as opposed to having damage randomly added onto normals. If both Guile’s crlp and cr mp were +5 on hit, punishing links become easier to use and harder to mash out of. Say an opponent misses a move, you can now punish with two-linked cr mp’s+ flashkick where as before you could only use one cr mp.
3.Sonic Boom
Needs to do about 60 damage, just to balance the fact that it’s an excellent zoning tool, but only when people actually care about being hit. It’s not nearly as effective when characters with really good ultras simply absorb it and you are now at an extreme disadvantage. The chip damage the move does is also laughable and a knockdown on EX boom would help Guile’s comeback potential as he could move into an ideal position as his opponent was downed. All booms need to recover like the lp boom, as they always have before
4.Ultra
Less restricted motion would be nice,any down charge, any forward, any back then any up, and a vacuum effect is definitely needed so that it’s not either randomly punishable, or wasted because of missed hits that do terrible damage. A combo option is also a very good idea, you have a few ways of doing this which i’m sure you’ve already though of as a fixed ultra seems to be Guile’s buff priority
- Crouching roundhouse i actually don’t have a problem with as it’s a weakness i feel he should keep. In terms of balance, i’d like every character being buffed to be high mid tier, but when played well they can be right at the top tier
6.range on his kicks
I strongly feel this needs to be changed, and because of that i’ll directly quote the original post: “In the old SF games, Cvs2, ST, etc. he had alot of range on his jumping roundhouse. Guile could jump over Ken/Ryu’s fireballs from further away than most characters and still hit them with his jumping roundhouse. He could play mindgames with them where if he jumps from really far away and decides not to stick out a jumping roundhouse and they decide to do a dragon punch, the dragon punch will wiff and he can punish the DP on recovery. In SF4, his jumping roundhouse pretty much has the same range as every other character of a medium body type.”
His crossup might need to be changed. You can do this either by changing the hitbox, the stun on the move, or just simply moving it over to Guile’s jumping mk. Guile’s crouching midkick needs a range extension also, faster startup would be great as well as better recovery so that it’s not potentially punishable with an ultra.
7.Bazooka Knee+sobat
These moves need a hitbox that is more airborne and cannot be grabbed. A different motion for bazooka knee is optional as it’s beneficial for guile to maintain his charge whenever possible, but in order to do this he loses access to potentially good normals. Bazooka knee should have faster recovery, it shouldn’t be punishable by anything if you hit with it
- Guile high kick
This motion could be changed to downback and hardkick, again to maintain potential charges as well as being a possible setup for an ultra. EX flashkick should also get full damage off of this move. If for some reason, this move resulting in ultra is overpowered, perhaps remove the juggle, but the startup needs to be reduced to make it a valid attack
9.Air throw
"Guile’s airthrow is really good in SF4 but one thing I’ve noticed is that you cannot airthrow immediately upon leaving the ground. If you try to do it right when you leave the ground you will get a jumping short kick instead of an airthrow." Said it all, fix please
Air-throw that can grab in a juggle state would also be nice, as many people have requested something like flashkick FADC airthrow or a forward air-throw juggling into a slow sonic boom that you tossed
Might as well leave on a productive note
well I just got done playing some hyper anniversary edition, is it too much to ask if we can get world warrior st.jab back please??? wow that thing dizzys quick
His WW standing jab became his standing fierce in sf4, love it.
I really like the air throw on to the sb that was tossed out before it idea. I’ve thrown people down into it only to have them drop through it and thought “dammit! why didn’t that shit pop them back up or at least make some kind of contact?”
Seen here, post 253
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=215158&page=11
:
"
– What kind of adjustments have you made for the characters who are considered to be weak?
Okada:
In general, our weak characters are thought to be Vega and Guile. So of course, we’ve been making adjustments to buff them up. (…) And for Guile, in SFIV I felt that we didn’t really capture his “footsies and normals” gameplay style, so we took a good look at that area and made adjustments."
It’s a breath of fresh air to see that Guile has been explicitly acknowledged in this regard, however, I certainly hope that this doesn’t necessarily mean that Capcom will skimp on his specials. Irrespective of his intended gameplay style, it still stands that the man has two specials, and they both ought to be among the better ones in the game. In addition to what we now know with some degree of certainty, I’m still keeping my fingers crossed for a FK with less recovery, hit behind the head, and more priority.
number 8 on wooooshooe13s would be a bad idea. i dont wanna bust guile high kick if i wanna sweep.