Guile’s too good. His SB traps are broken, and FK beats out everything. Also, too much stun.
I think the list I came up with is completely reasonable and would put Guile back exactly where he use to be and not an overpowered god. It gives him comeback potential as well as a better defensive game while having the option to rushdown for mix-up.
people wont complain that guile is op because:
even with all these changes, he would lack heavy duty punish combos (other than the comboable ultra) sagat, akuma, ryu and ken have several ~400 damage combos, guile… not so much
(i think… maybe im wrong though im no expert)
in other words: what joker just said in the post above
Guile shouldn’t rely on ridiculous combos. He has combo potential, but he’s not meant to completely explode people using lk tatsu, hp shoryu, FADC, lp shaku. He’s meant to wear people down while keeping them out. He should have more punch in the form of a decent ultra with a couple of set-ups, and a bit more power in his normals. And an FK that doesn’t make me wanna dip my head in a deep fryer.
oh totally i agree, i was saying people wont complain that guile is op because he wont have those ridiculous combos etc
Yeah I was just about to say what Max said. Guile is a combo machine don’t get me wrong on that but since he is a charge character his damaging combos are based off of countering the other player. As well as being a counter type of character you also need to anticipate, if you can do this well I’ve had much success with jumping over shoto FBs for the j. HK > cr. mp xx (EX) FK combo. Here are he combos I use on a consistent basis or set ups to help anybody else who doesn’t use these. These aren’t hard combos very practical and consistent damage.
On whiffed shoryus and shoryu type moves:
If you have enough charge time:
cr. mp xx (EX) FK
If you don’t have charge:
st. lp x3 > st. hp
st. hp> st. hp
cr. lp x3 xx lp. SB > f. hp or b. hp (The back one doesn’t combo but it does stuff most counter attack attempts or if they move forward some)
Also if you get into your lp. boom spam game where you follow the boom you have set up for air throw obviously but a little trick I like to do is follow the boom and right after it hits them do st. hk (hop step kick), you can catch your opponent off guard with this since they don’t think you can reach them, it also hits high and low. Watch out for doing this a lot though since shoryus will trade or beat it cleanly. It can be done the same with b. hp (hits high and low) for a shorter distance or long distance with f. hp which is fast but only hits high, good for when the opponent is walking forward or trying to jump back.
Personally I’d never waste a meter on using EX FK in a combo to add 16 damage to it. That meter is far better used for wake-up FK’s or guaranteed no-stuff anti-airs for full damage potential. It’s either use the meter to add 16 damage to an already hit confirmed combo, or do 90 more damage on an anti-air that you’d normally only get a reset out of (ex FK as opposed to cr.fp), or save it to make yourself not quite so free on wake-up / hold some ground in a fireball war.
My list at the moment would be
-Unified boom recovery, 10 extra damage on booms, EX booms knock down, booms will juggle opponents airthrown into them
-Flashkick hitbox changed,lk flashkick -15 on block
-Various hitboxes on his kicks changed so that they are extended to match prior versions of guile, or so that when airborne you cannot be hit by low attacks or thrown
-cr lp is identical to close standing lp in terms of frames to bring risk vs reward into balance as far as link combos go
-cr mk 5 frame startup, and the advantage on block would have to be great enough so that there is no longer an extreme risk with using target combo
-Overhead motion changed to back and mp to retain charge,can cancel into boom or back and fierce. Guile high kick motion changed to downback and RH, EX flashkick hits for full damage
-Airthrow can grab people in a juggle state
Yea…that’s pretty much it for what i think he really could benefit from
If I’m reading the attack data right in training:
cr. mp xx lk. fk = 200
cr.mp xx mk. fk = 210
cr.mp xx hk. fk = 230
cr.mp xx ex. fk = 250
Use meter for 20 more damage? No thanks. Need that ex for wakeup situations.
isn’t ex wakeup asking for someone to bait and punish? or do you only use it when you’re certain that the opponent is going to try something?
Yeah, it is. I’d be too afraid to use it. Honestly, if I’m not fighting a fireball-whore I actually end up going with cr.MP xx Super. This is usually because I’m terrified of FKing on my wake-up and EX Boom doesn’t really help me unless I’m fighting someone trying to out-projectile me.
No, they mean save the meter so you can cancel a wakeup FK and dash in or out on block (or even cook up a FA). Also, stand-alone EX.FK is pretty damn useful to keep stored anyways, it is the only one with respectable I-frames and it is one of the few things you can do to escape Gief in his mini-vortex (although it still isn’t guaranteed). Considering the debate is spending a bar to get 16-20 extra damage or to keep that bar for the potential damage and pressure of an EX.Boom of EX.FK, I personally side with keeping the meter every time.
the 16 damage kich was talking about was the difference between rh fk and ex fk in: j.hk > c.mp > fk. In any combo longer than 3 hits the damage difference is super insignificant
And even as a punish 20 extra damage and 50 extra stun is not worth a bar unless its going to dizzy or kill your opponent.
EX Boom is too important, FADC FK is too important. The 50 extra damage ex fk nets you when used instead of lk fk in a anti air situation, and its ability to not trade with good jump ins makes it a better use of meter too.
how the hell are u sposed to read those inputs ? whats xx ? i been tryin to figure that out for the longest… di hell is xx
Cancel i’m guessing
It means special cancel. cr.mk xx hadoken is crouching medium kick cancelled into hadoken. That’s what xx means.
Changing Guiles High Swing Kick to db.HK sounds like a really really shady idea, simply because that means you won’t be able to pressure with a sweep without losing your charge.
My general opinion (as that was just an example) is to change it to 3K. That way you could hold either charge–however, and this isn’t a viable reason but it’s something to bring up, why would you pressure with Guile’s sweep in the first place? That’s about as unsafe as it gets.
Was just about to say that.
Was about to ask that too