As Gilley stated in the Guile forum (hope I am referencing it correctly):
c.mp is the only combo setup that allows Guile users to maintain both a down and a back charge and it is a 1 frame link from c.lp and hk. making c.mp start-up 1 frame faster (to make f. or b.hk to c.mp after crumple viable). Or, as Kich stated adding another frame of hitstun to c.lp.
I apologize if my info is wrong, but I also think that FA benefits non-charge characters more, which is why I mentioned the b.hk to c.mp link.
@Hotdawg_SKA- Ultra damage is just fine: it is the Ultra utility that is the issue. The way the damage outputs (most damage done on the ground first two “somersaults”) doesn’t jive with it being a supposed anti-air. Using it as an anti-air usually means: 1-2-or 3 minor damage hits, or complete ultra block due to opposing character continuing to ground during startup and blocking the whole thing, or Guile scooting forward during ultra startup just far enough to make it a one-hit anti-crossup knockdown reset. I actually find myself using it as a crossup escape more than as something that does game-changing damage.
Nice, first serious buffs we’ve seen in about 3 days interestingly enough. I’d be more in favour of slight health increase while leaving the stun meter where it is howver,as i don’t get dizzied much anyways so even with a stun increase i wouldn’t notice
Leaving it at the same value while increasing health by 50 would be more valuable imo,while stilll giving him a weakness
Correction to my statement: The only other useful combo I see coming out another frame of hit stun on c.lp is c.lp > c.lp > s.fp xx super > ultra. But I mean hey, doesn’t Guile fucking deserve a diesel super hit confirm?
I initially said c.lp > c.fp > s.fp which is horrendously impossible (but would be brix-shittingly awesome ^_^).
In most SF2 games, his FK defended against poorly timed crossups on wakeup, but a properly aimed/timed one would consistently beat it out. That’s a hell of a lot better than what he’s got now, though.
Yea, just about anything is better than what he has now, that’s why i’m all for getting everyone to agree on buffs
The guile forum had some really,really good ones imo. The bolded text in that quote was from someone i quoted, badly timed crossups would probably be dealing with an extension of flashkicks hitbox, which is fine. It’s having an absolute defense against them that’s probably broken, and imo that’s not where Guiles REAL weaknesses are
Well I’m of the opinion that bazooka knee should act like a shittier version of Tiger Knee. If you hit deep with it you should be punished (naturally), but if you space it correctly it should leave both parties neutral (think Ken’s Tatsumaki). That’s why 3 frames less recovery would be a perfect fix for that move.
Here’s another idea.
Being able to cancel overhead knuckle into a lk flash kick. Overhead knuckle wouldn’t be forward + mp, but fd + mp. Lk flash kick would have a special property (only following overhead knuckle) which says charge time is reduced to accommodate the link at the very final moment of the opponent’s recovery.
I’ve been wondering about a different kind of update to Guile, one that retains his style, feel, and two special-move core, but gives him a small boost. This is purely speculative, so please bear with me if there are reasons that would make this worthless, but I think there’s an area we haven’t touched on with regard balancing.
We’re all familiar with damage scaling - how about Guile’s scaling-curve isn’t as steep? Rather than the *third *hit being 80% (or whatever, I’m sorry - I cannot check right now) have the *fourth *being 80% (or leave the 3rd as is, shuffle down to 4th, 5th hit having dmg scaling delayed, whatever!). This will keep Guile’s basic game the same, but allow some of his combos to do a touch more damage. I’m not looking to negate damage scaling here, just give a boost to the original combo king
I think this would be nice in that it leaves Guile able to turtle (should that float your boat…) and allow people to play him in the old (SF4) style, but would also be a neat reward for those who are looking to be a touch more offensive. This could be a nice little wink to Guile’s past, and a bonus that you’d have to work for. We’d even possibly have a reason for the c.lp-c.mp risk for noobs like me
Of course there are details to be examined by those more technically gifted and intuitively involved with SF4 than myself, but I think it’s an area for balancing that has yet to be explored in a worthwhile way.
Nice if it happens, but EX is so damn fast. Would the only way to capitalize on EX be using it in a combo? I foresee a whole bunch of full screen crumples followed by Guile jumping towards opponent only to restart the projectile battle once they quick up…
4 EX booms would be 370 damage, that’s half of Seth’s life and at times could totally be worth the gauge XD.
Additional things this would cause:
Stand fierce XX EX boom, crouch strong XX EX boom, dash, crouch jab (Only for purpose of making more time for charge.), crouch strong, flash kick for (120+100+63+80+21+42+80) =506 damage for 2 gauges. That’s Sagat damage right there!
Also since EX boom takes quite awhile to execute
Stand fierce xx EX boom, Ultra if done point blank.
First, for Vega and Guile, their Ultra input windows would be lengthened greatly. Once that is done, this idea works.
First, EX Sonic boom crumples, which allows for the super/ultra to hit. The input would overlap because the input window is increased (I’m suggesting a 30 frame input). We could also make the ultra vacuum to make it hit cleaner.
For the EX Flash kick, we can add an extra 3rd hit to juggle high. That allows you to do a Sonic Hurricane Ultra afterwards similar to the Boxer’s setup. This third EX kick hit could either be a projectile like the vs series or just be a high juggler. You could also EX boom afterwards to juggle.
None of these options are hardly overpowered since it takes 25% bar and scaling.
EX boom x4 wouldn’t work, I take it you’ve never FA2 > FA2’d someone? (They fall down and aren’t re-crumpled, else you’d see FA combo spam for free damage)
120 + 100 + 56 + 70 + 18 + 35 + 64 = 463 damage. The first two hits are 100% damage, the third is 80%, and from there it’s 10% less per hit (70, 60, 50, etc%).
That combo wouldn’t work the way you wrote it, you made the assumption you could dash out of his EX Boom somehow? Even if it was a focus attack level 3, EX boom is 11 frame start up and 39 frame recovery… 50 frame total means you are -not- dashing after it to continue a combo.
The combo would work however, if you FADC’d the second EX boom. Sooo… Four bars for 463 damage? Is that really that unreasonable? That’s on par or weaker than a combo involving someone’s super.
Reason for FA2 FA2 is because once they get to their knees that’s akin to being in juggle state, you can near rapid fire EX booms. Guessing you’ve never tried L3 focus back dash EX boom, or taken the time to check how close to rapid fire you can get EX booms with 464 motions for it
As for the combo I already factored in percentages unless you think crouch strong changes strengths without scaling in my combo. D8!
I actually don’t assume dash out of it, I assume that if you have someone cornered that would be no issue as you can already follow up jab booms with additional hits with ease, thus why it’s , dash as opposed to XX dash. and focus stun should give you time to get that, thus why I have a dash in there in the first place.
Check your corrections before trying to correct someone. Though something you didn’t point out that needs to be corrected is a split second of walking forward after the first EX boom which means your timing would need to be on point for the crouch strong or you would need to crouch jab crouch strong.
And helpful hint, if there are numbers that don’t end in 0 someone already did scaling on it.
No, the scaling was done wrong. You assumed that crouching strong (70 damage initially) was scaled to 90%, not 80% (90% of 70 is 63, which is what you wrote, not 56, which it is)…which further skewed the rest of the calculation because you didn’t understand how the game scales.
You get full damage for the first two hits, then 80% on the third and 10% less on each hit afterward as I very, very clearly laid out in my post.
Jab booms and EX booms aren’t the same thing… Why did you even bring up Jab booms? EX booms are only +4 on hit, Jabs are +10 on hit, obviously you can follow up a jab boom with more things you’re left at +10 frame advantage.
And even then, you’re telling me you really think a focus crumple will give you what like 3 full seconds to work with? EX boom, ok, now you’ve got 39 frames to wait. Dashing is 19 frames… So 58 frames after landing your EX boom you’ll be able to connect a hit. By then, they’ll be too close to the ground for you to hit them and not reset them. No. You can not just dash after an EX boom and start up the next part of the combo -you have to FADC out of the EX in order to do so-. 58 frames is 2 frames less than a full second of game-time.
Furthermore, the distance is still an issue. You have to be extremely tight on that FADC, the distance you’re at allows for just a single c.lp into c.mp, which means you’d have to give yourself enough time to get the next charge which is approximately a third of a second. It’s entirely possible to connect, don’t get me wrong, it’s just that you really need to have a good sense of timing, it’s not something you can do just mashing shit out.
Yeah, I’m aware of that. That doesn’t mean it’s correct.
I forgot to mention: You can’t just walk up and c.lp > c.mp > boom someone. The forward motion breaks the charge, the c.lp > c.mp doesn’t give you enough frames of charge to release a boom afterwards (you need 55 frames of holding back before you can boom, c.lp > c.mp is less than that…as is 2x c.lp > c.mp), 3 jabs before the mp would, but even then, you’re telling me that after 2/3s of a second you’re still going to be able to hit them? Don’t count on it. In fact no, it doesn’t work.
Here’s a little example of pointing out why: Guile’s FA2 recovers faster than his EX boom does. Try to land a c.lp after landing an FA2 without dashing out of it. You can’t. Not only can you not reach, at that point they’d already be too low to the ground to combo off of.
No, your combo doesn’t work. No, EX. Boom focus crumpling wouldn’t be a big deal. It would fix his damage output and give him a solid ultra connection at point blank range. Standalone an Ex.Boom (crumple) + Ultra would do 502 damage.
Keep in mind also that the EX.boom has quite a bit of knock-back. Things like j.fp > s.fp xx ex.boom > ultra aren’t possible, they’re too far away from you. (Even if they took out the pushback of the second hit, the first hit pushes them out of range of the ultra’s first kick and the second kick would come out after they’re already on the ground).
You wouldn’t even be able to combo the EX boom off anything and still ultra, they’d be pushed just -way- too far away.
You’re assuming you have a -lot- more time to work with than you actually do. EVEN if the EX.Boom was the equivalent of a Level 3 Focus attack (which also recovers faster than Guile’s EXboom) you do -not- have enough time to walk up and combo afterwards unless you FADC.
Try looking into what the hell you’re talking about before talking shit ok?
Up damage by 10 on his booms.
Fix his hitbox on flash kick.
There, guile is good again.
That’s bare minimum for what he should get imo
Here’s another idea.
Being able to cancel overhead knuckle into a lk flash kick. Overhead knuckle wouldn’t be forward + mp, but fd + mp. Lk flash kick would have a special property (only following overhead knuckle) which says charge time is reduced to accommodate the link at the very final moment of the opponent’s recovery.
I’m convinced many of the people asking for an insane amount of buffs (9272) just don’t know how to use Guile. Switch to Ryu/Sagat if you can’t handle Guile’s two-move awesomeness.
