I’ve always voiced this opinion not only about Guile but quite a few low tier characters in SF4. Think of Ryu, Sagat or Rog without Ultra…kittens! They too would have to be played technically. like we have to with Guile which in turn would make one hell of a fun and balanced game. Currently, top tiers are all characters who can land their Ultra a few different and safe ways. Playing as Ryu and Rog, it’s guarantied that you will pull off and land the Ultra…Sagat requires a bit more setting up but does hell of a more damage.
I’m seriously gonna start a movement to get Ultras removed. If that doesn’t work, I’ll mod my PC version of the game, remove the Ultra meter myself and show people why it’s a better system
I’ve disliked the whole idea of an Ultra from day one, before I had any idea that Ryu & Co. will benefit from the system that much. I never got the whole “get beat up to fill meter” ideology dear Capcom has imposed on us.
All Guile wins are well deserved because there is no BS. How great it would be if the rest of the cast followed the same principle. But Capcom seems to love BS characters?Can you think of any other reason Elf is in the bloody game but pure BS?
Uh…I don’t think so. Barlog can destroy just with footsies. Ryu and Sagat don’t even remotely need Ultra to put a hurting on someone. Just helps greatly that they have such beastly comeback potential. I guarantee that Zangief without Ultra is still a beast too.
flashkick fadc is still useful even if guiles flashkick was as safe as ryu’s light dp if you score a hit while your in the corner and fadc then jump they are basicly in the corner and your half screen where you can go back to zoneing them, also if it is blocked you can throw or dash back to safety it’s just a usefull tool to have.
while i am on board 100% with his buffs i think they are great and will help a lot i still feel there is no downside to him having a reliable ultra, what the hell is the point of having a move that is so rediculasy situational that useing it actually increases my chances of losing?
also isn’t the whole point of having 2 ultras to make the character play differently? ive seen that tossed around in a lot of interviews, if it’s not comboable and basicly is to be used explusively as punishment then that realy doesn’t do anything that tweaking flash explosion to actually work wouldn’t have done.
I fucking hate Ultras not because i don’t have a useful one but because you just shouldn’t get rewarded for getting your ass whipped. Back in the day if you got your ass whipped that was it you tried to get better and eventually you would. I’m just so disappointed in this hand holding crap, hopefully things change in that regard when SFV drops.
Well that is ideally what the point of having 2 ultras is however as of now the implementation of this is poor, at the moment it is looking more and more like these scenarios where:
One ultra is just flat out better than the other one in numbers of setups, damage, etc.
Having two ultras that function nearly in the SAME way but slightly more (which kinda goes back to the first point) - e.g sakura: Her BnB EX shuppu combo to ultra 1 will just be replaced with the same combo but with ultra 2, basically meaning just a palette/animation swap in combo, no real impact/change in her gameplay otherwise.
One could do more damage than the other just because they have a similar set up doesn’t mean they aren’t different. One could cause more stun than the other as well.
That would go back to the first point, one will just be flat out better than the other one, why would you pick the one that does lower damage if both have similar/same setups?
The only characters I have seen so far with two usable ultras, both with different purposes is Chun Li and Dan.
You know how we won’t be able to fadc ultra right? i am convinced of that.
What if we can cancel Sonic Boom into Hurricane?
That would solve the combo to ultra.
Did you not just hear what I said about stun? They could have different properties. (i.e. Shinku Hadoken & Denjin Hadoken) Similar setups/same type of super yet one does something different than the other property wise. One does straight damage and a little stun the other does small damage and large stun allowing you to do another big combo after.
Hey guys! Can anyone give me some tips on how to get frame data or how to collect it myself? With the game being like 2 months away, I’m tying to make preparations and just lay some things out as far as what I’m going to do once the games released. I know I’m definitely going to put up Guile’s new Normal-Hard Trials within the first couple of hours of me getting the game (I’m assuming a local store will be doing a midnight release for the game, and with me being on the east coast, that will allow people on the west to see whats new a couples hours before they get the game). And I was also going to do another side by side video, just comparing SF4 Guile’s moves to SSF4 Guile’s moves. This way we can easily see which ones have more recovery time or more range or whatever the case may be. And I wanted to go ahead and try to get a head start on some of the frame data for Guile too. I have a video editing program that will allow me to move the footage at every frame so I can count start up and all that but I just wanted to get some more details about how to get the disadvantage or advantage on hit or block. Anyone know? I think it’s very important to get this info out as soon as possible so we can all start messing around with it and start getting better as soon as possible. Agreed?
I’m sure there is more that factors in than just damage. Combos may be the same, but some leave in a better position. do want someone to fall down right next to you, or do you want them to fall further away, allowing them to avoid another possible mixup? The answer to that question relies on the matchup and the character you are using.
I’m kinda on the camp that stun isn’t as important as raw damage from a single combo primarily because of the damage scaling.
Shinku hadoken and denjin hadoken (isn’t that Goukens new ultra)? They’re not on the same character, I was saying on the same character, like sakuras ultra 1 vs ultra 2, as far as I can see, it has no real impact to her gameplay, all it does really is gives 2 different looks to basically the same BnB combo, you’re just changing the ultra ender, unless there is a substantial difference in either damage or stun or positioning (which goes back to point 1, having these two ultras is pointless).
And I agree there would be more factors but like I said if there are more +ives on 1 ultra than the other then pretty much that ultra will always get picked (going back to the first point)
Now looking at guile, unless they really fix up somersault explosion, I’m pretty convinced sonic hurricane will ALWAYS get picked over it.
No man I’m talking about Ryu from Third Strike, i played Ryu S.A. III so check videos of that out to know what i’m talking about. Specifically try and look up Frankie 3S Ryu he has a good one. Gouken’s Denjin isn’t the same since it is clearly fully blockable, Ryu’s wasn’t you had to parry or jump over it.
Gouken’s Denjin Hadoken becomes unblockable when it is fully charged or so it seems that way from the command list.(it would be redundant if charging it did nothing but change the timing). I don’t know how many frames it would take or if there is a way to speed it up like Ryu in 3s.
Man I hate special moves. Why the f are you getting I frames on that shoryuken? You didn’t earn that shit. Fucking I frames. Everyone should only ever be allowed to use their’ normals. TRUE SKILL.
I’m obviously over-exaggerating with them being kittens but Guile is no slouch himself.
First off, Rog without Ultra can try to outfootsie you…but Guile can keep him out quite well. I’m sure you know how hard Guiles normals own Rog trying to get in. Also, if there’s no Ultra, attempting to safe jump or jump-in on Rog becomes a plausible attempt to deal good damage. Currently, if the Rog has the Ultra stocked, you simply don’t leave the bloody ground and hope not to eat a cr.jab or cr.short somewhere along the line as that means “Up in the air we go”.
Guile and Ryu are almost head to head in the zoning and footsie department. I don’t see Ryu having a large lead over Guile outside of the Ultra set-ups (except the inherent qcf vs charge differences but those aren’t problems, they are character characteristics). His cr.mk is mighty as hell, but is Guiles Air-throw, st.hp, backfist, etc. IMO, this is generally a good match until you give Ryu his Ultra by smacking him in the face.
Sagat has always and will always be a powerhouse, but Guile would have a much better chance then he does right now.
As I said before, I’m not talking about Guile only. I’m talking about the whole cast with emphasis on lower tiers.
The large gap between top tier and everyone else is largely how well and sure the characters can combo into high damage Ultras. Otherwise, the characters are very well balanced and fairly close otherwise (at least as close as one can hope and ask for). Sure, some characters are faster, some deal more damage but in the end, the gap narrows quite a bit.
However, as far as Gief goes, I fully agree with you. Gief has no need for an Ultra as he dishes such an insane amount of damage on his normals and specials. I think we all agree that Gief does too much damage and from the looks of SSF4 vids, Capcom believes so as well (at least it looks like SPD deals a bit less damage).
i do kinda aggree with joker the ultra system is pretty floored you don’t deserve to be rewarded for getting your ass kicked, but still thats just how it is, but every character should be able to combo to ultra or none should.
extradas just hit it right on the head that is the only reason ryu guile is 6-4 it’s because ryu gets to do a free 400 damage off srk and that is bs if guile can’t do that back.
Yeah but Gief has to work hard to get his damage and the Ultra isn’t all that easy to land on a competent opponent, so it’s still fair.
SF4 would be an awesome game without Ultras, but you know what? It’s an awesome game with Ultras too. The fact that my chosen character has no way to reliably land his is a point of pride; if I win, I’m that much better for not using it. And when I play as someone who can land it, then yay for me. If I’m Gouken and I catch someone in a back throw, there’s NO guilt on my part. Fuck 'em! Put that Shin Shoryuken in your mouth and suck it! You shouldn’t have been standing there!
What we all hate is when we lose to someone we look down on as a player who beats us because of an Ultra. But when you play with your friends, or people you respect, it’s all in fun; I don’t get mad…do any of you?
