At Laki, your information is very out of date. Very little of that remains true.
Just to name a few in the last year and some to come. Peutro Rico, Canada, and Europe came to Genesis, so technically that is international, as will be Pound 4.
Where is the evidence for that? Sounds like they think it is.
hmmmm apex, genesis, pound 4 is in a month. smash has had plenty of national tourneys. oh yeah, evo 09 too even though that was like a week after genesis so alot of people didn’t come.
not to mention
Revival of Melee 2
Pat’s House
ActiveGamers
and other stuff
all had players from both coasts
I was really disappointed with Brawl
I would like for you to explain to me what parts of my info are untrue. The frame data OBVIOUSLY hasn’t changed and is highly relevant.
The matchups are all about right though you could argue that some are maybe 55/45 as opposed to 60/40. Meta DEFINITELY counters marth/ddd/wario/icies and the only way Falco isn’t a soft counter is when tournies have anti ledgecamping/planking rules.
Not trying to come off as an ass or anything but it would be nice for you to explain WHY you think something is wrong when I was stating either fact(frame stuff) or matchups that are for the most part agreed on as true. If you bring up char boards, most of there matchups are pretty wrong/biased aside from Marth boards.
Also @ smashchu: I’m pretty sure this was all looked at by the hackers in the community who have looked through the games coding and I believe that there is an article somewhere saying that brawl was released to early though I can’t really look right now >_>
Hackers are doing AMAZING things with Brawl.
Check em out ESPECIALLY Brawl+, it’s all the extras of Brawl with balance and skill!!
Marth-yes
DDD- No
Wario-Lamo, what?
Icies- hahahahahahahahahahah, no.
No, most of them should be listed as 50-50. As in, Falco, Snake, Icies.
Maybe it was agreed as true like, 5 months ago. Its really outdated stuff. Somethings are just flat out wrong too. like this:
It LITERALLY always trades. That’s what transcendent priority means. I could go line by line. Let me assure you, many things you posted are either wrong or outdated. If they miss a shuddle loop, they ARE going to get punished, unless the player sucks. Shit, that move is basically useless against D3. DDD rapes shuddle loop. Inhale > invincibility
No, that’s not true at all. I’m REALLY not sure where you got that idea. Only the pros opinion on the D3 matchups matter. Nothing else. Only their experience. Some are out of date because the guy who runs them is reluctant to change, like Olimar should be 55-45 DDD and Wario should be 65-35 DDD as well, based off Seibrik and C018’s experiences.
Also, Brawl+ is incredibly easy.
Atmosk/Seibrik have both in the past called it 50/50. Both players would regularly lose to top metas in there areas and now play meta themselves predominantly. Coincidence?
Fiction was anti-ban and called the matchup even or wario advantage till he played m2ks meta. Related or not, he said the matchup was a disadvantage, ended up switching to pro-ban side and then quit brawl for melee. Other warios who actively post on smashboards say meta is warios worst matchup @ 60/40
I also remember DSF trying to use wario to counter meta and it not working.
Meep a top ice climber player quit brawl recently after discovering that is indeed legal for meta to get a percent lead and glide back and forth under stages to time his ass out. He went on to say that if icies don’t win the first game, they can’t win the set because they can’t win when counterpicked stagewise correctly. Sure iceclimbers destroy aggressive metaknights, but thats meta playing the matchup wrongly and is irrelevant to discussion. When metas play the right way and camp, it’s definitely in metas favor. If i wasn’t lazy, I’d link vids of meta getting owned by lain and then learning how to camp and 2 stocking him >_>
Falco is 55/45 meta IF ledgecamping isn’t allowed. Falco can’t really deal with ledge campers. Though falco himself can camp very well and it’s not unreasonable to think that he could keep a lead so it might be 60/40 at worst with planking.
Shuttle loop isn’t an approach. It’s a punish, an approach stuffer, and a gimping tool. It’s also arguably the best attack in the game. The move is useless to approach ddd maybe, but it’s fairly good when ddd’s recovering and meta has whorenado to harass DDD with anyways >_>
Only the pro opinions matter? No point in thinking for yourself when there are pro players who change there mind/suck at judging matchups based on them simply being better at playing but awful at objectivly analyzing? You just eat up what other people say without questioning amirite? So long as there “pro” of course. Also, lmao at 65/35 ddd over wario. Thats one of the closer matchups in the game and is highly stage dependent. Also you talk about 5 months ago, seibrik said all that stuff 3 months ago so meh.
WOW. I’m sorry, but you really have NO IDEA what you are talking about. NO IDEA AT ALL. WOW. Completely no idea. Holy shit, you really are a dumb fuck.
I laughed so hard when you said the Fiction went pro-ban after losing to Mew2King. NO. He went pro-ban because of another Metaknight player abusing Metaknight, HOWEVER, this player has yet to won a national tournament.
And Meep has NOT quit, and NO, that’s NOT legal. That’s stalling. Its putting yourself in an unharmable position. Its no more legal than Sonic abusing his homing attack under a stage, WHICH IS LISTED IN THE RECOMMENDED RULE SET UNDER AN EXAMPLE OF STALLING. As for Meep losing, MEEP WASN’T PLAYING THE MATCHUP RIGHT. He wasn’t abusing desynched blizzards which is the entire way the matchup is suppose to be even. Every Ice Climbers and Metaknight worth shit will tell you.
My favorite is your statement about D3s, because they are hillariously untrue. Like, so untrue that the shit just seems stupid. I’m sorry, but you really don’t know shit about D3 versus Metaknight, not at all. C018 does NOT frequently lose to Metaknight’s in his region, he goes about even with Seibrik, who got 9th at Apex. Saying that they lose to players doesn’t really mean much, because our Sagats lose on occasion then Sagat isn’t as bad as people say? No, the player is just better.
IF YOU HAVE THE LEAD
the mk can only do one of 3 or 4 things.
SOLUTION:
Instead of ftilt, read his approach, and simply stay on ur side, then when u think he’s gona running shield, u do a dash grab (no shield) and meet him half way. That way your grabbing his approaching shield.
SOLUTION:
for spacy mk’s mixup between dash shielding==>grab (if they do recieding fairs), sh bairs or utilts out of shield for spacy dairs, be very patient with this…
like shield 2, even 3 dairs before making a move, if they’re too high, try to time a full hop uair or fair after abotu the third or 4th dair, if they land before then, grab/dsmash the landing depending on spacing, only other option is nado which if ur shield is low either roll away or try to utilt it. if ur shield is fine (they did nado before doing 3-4 dairs on ur shield) then just hold shield, try to predict if he’s gona stay inside u, OR retreat. if he retreats u can actually time a roll in that direction to move with him, and finish ur roll where he lands, this seems to be the only consistant way to punish retreating nado, if they stayed in ur shield at all, and it avoids the mindgame of -retreat, just kidding hit u while u run-
SOLUTION:
DSMASH-sounds weird but it destroys mk’s grounded spacing game once he’s passed ur ftilt range. just hold shield accordingly, when he fuks up, give him a swing.
itss sooooo good and soooo big. and hurts, and puts them above u. i <3 dsmash…
SOLUTION-This one you gota watch out for, as it can shut out like ur other two solutions if u pick wrong. (IE he has a rock that beats ur scissor and lizard, BUT you have this paper) this one will seem the most blatent if u pay attention enough, and aggressive, they will run full speed and jump AT you, not near you. thats ur que to either throw out utilt, try to grab it, OR the safest thing, shield. -----the issue is when they read ur shield, and instead of jump nadoing, they just dash grab ur shield, so watch out for that.
instead of linking specific vids, since i do all these strats often,
i’ll link u here instead.
watch the latest vids vs mk to see these strats in action.
As for upb, its still punishable. AND NO ITS NOT GOOD AGAINST RECOVERING D3, DO THAT TO US AND YOU’LL GET INHALED TO INHALE RELEASE TO UPTILT OR DDDCIDE.
And TORNADO HASN’T BEEN A PROBLEM FOR AT LEAST 6 MONTHS NOW. DDD can handle tornado INCREDIBLY well. Tornado is NOT a huge problem.
As for the Falco, PLANKING IS STALLING WHICH IS BANNED. I don’t think you understand anything at all.
No, he HAS been saying that for about a year, (oddly enough, when Mew2King played DDD against Wario, he did the same thing except no one noticed until recently. Wario can’t handle bair spam. Afro used Wario as his D3 counter, being a Snake player, and once Seibrik figured out the bair reaction strategy to shut down Wario’s options, its basically over. Wario can’t really kill D3 easily, D3 sure as hell can.
The other top D3s recently picked up this same tactic in the last month, and have reassured its effectiveness.
Sorry, but just no.
The problem was I found no evidence about how the game is not finished. Not on what the post said or anything I saw in the thread is an actual reason the game is unfinished because all games have those problems.
Lots of games are unbalanced. A lot of good competitive games are not balanced as developers can not spot everything and people find game changing discoveries. Constant patching is the only way to keep a game perfectly balanced, but the cost will overcome the benefit. Also, in Smash’s case, the game is designed with moire of a focus on 4vs, but other things like items, stages and final smashes, all the effect the balance, are removed or minimized, creating a void where a character like Meta-Knight, one who works well under the new conditions (where they were not the norm in the development process) can take control. Of course, he is by far not a problem. Lots of games have a character who has no bad match-ups. (I post this on Smashboards, but people just think I’m a scrub because I mentioned the words “item” without insulting it).
Also, glitches are also in every game. Humans are not perfect, and will make mistakes and miss stuff. That fact does not make Brawl a beta game. Most of the glitches were only found in the Stage Builder. Example: If you have a block with a passable platform at it’s bottom, you can jump though the block if you jump in a gap between the block and the platform. This can be created in Stage Builder very easily. Between the 41 stages in the game, only Rumble Falls has this glitch (it’s in the bottle neck right before the midway point). I will say that Brawl doesn’t feel as tight as Melee in terms of these bugs and what not, but I blame Game Arts not being as skilled as HAL labs. Either way, it doesn’t hinder gameplay.
As for the character specific things, most of them have no proof. Also, on Meta-Knight, he’s a catch 22. He isn’t great in 4vs because he’s weak overall and his beat killing method, to chase characters off the edge, isn’t as useful in a 4vs when someone else can take advantage of this and out compete you in KOing power (one reason Ike is so good in 4vs). If he was nerfed, he could become a garbage character in the 4vs realm and be good for nothing. But, he’s really good at 1v1. If nerfed, they’d have to be really specific on what they do.
>_____________________>
Post got deleted and I don’t really value winning this debate so I’m just gonna say that if you look at vids of top D3s versus top metas, you see seibrik getting 3 stocked by halzy and atmosk losing to allys meta ally…meta, suprising
Also, planking isn’t considered stalling and isn’t banned by the SBR. Technically since m2ks in the smash backroom, if you do think plankings banned, you’d have to call m2k a dirty cheat. Hmm…I actully remember Dr. Mario Guy, a B-roomer and top wario player who advocates “gayness”/planking/camping etc. saying that the community should hold a national level tourney and encourage planking so that data can be gathered to see if it really is game-breaking and should be banned since there is no definite conclusion and thus is currently not banned in the SBR ruleset.
For fiction, my bad though aside from the m2k being the meta, everything else was right. Also winning a national is something that only m2k, ally, and ADHD have done and since the tourney that adhd won was snes I believe, many folks don’t consider it a nationl (though since as I said I’m not trying to win an argument, I will admit that the comp at that was very high and it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t technically a national)
As for meep, I was going off of a post I remembered him making saying that he was quiting due to a combination of school, being too old for smash(?), and gayness of brawl.
Lastly since you implied you are a top D3 player, i would be curious as too your smash name and if you had any good vids of yourself playing.
Seibrik doesn’t main D3 anymore. Next you’ll talk about how because Mew2King lost to Ally while using DDD that DDD must not beat Snake. Look at what Co18 does to Seibrik A METAKNIGHT OF EQUAL SKILL LEVEL. They go even. Nice try but no. WHY DO YOU THINK ALLY WON?!?! BECAUSE HE’S ALLY! Atomsk is IN NO WAY at the same skill level as Ally. Just because Diago beats Sagat’s DOES NOT MEAN THAT SAGAT DOES NOT HAVE THE ADVANTAGE IN THAT MATCHUP. Just because wong beats our Sagats DOES NOT MEAN SAGAT DOES NOT HAVE THE ADVATAGE IN THAT MATCHUP.
Mew2King DOES NOT PLANK. Mew2King plays a VERY offensive metaknight. HE DOES NOT PLANK. AND SECONDLY, YES, EXECESIVE PLANKING IS CONSIDERED STALLING SINCE YOU CAN’T BE HIT OUT OF IT, WHICH IS THE DEFINITION OF STALLING. There is a difference between occasionally planking as you attempt to get back on the field and just plan planking to put yourself in a situation to where you can’t ever be hit. Planking used as a tactic to overcome a matchup would require it being done the entire match. The majority of tournaments would consider this stalling.
I never applied that I was a top D3, only that you didn’t know what you were talking about. Keep johning about Metaknight.
Wait, first you were dick riding Seibrik as a top D3 and only his opinion matters, now your saying his loss doesn’t count cause he’s not a D3 main anymore? Awkward.
Now we take Ally who’s obviously top 3 but we forget the fact that this is the first time or at least the first recorded time that we’ve seen Allys meta against high level opponents and we’re gonna say Atmosk losing doesn’t count cause he’s not good enough? Even though Atmosk is a top D3 and in a state infested with meta mains so you would think his greater matchup knowledge would give him the edge if this were indeed a 50/50
Yes m2k is offensive, but he *will * camp if/when it’s necessary and did plank/circle camp meeps icies causing meep to at least consider quitting brawl. [media=youtube]1OztKYId64M&feature=player_embedded That Was just gliding but caused whining. I also believe there was a match that didn’t get put online that was more hardcore planking. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8721796&postcount=506 Also theres a difference between tournaments considering planking stalling and it being in the official SBR ruleset which again it isn’t. The reason being like you said, occasional planking OK but extend planking not? Makes for an ambiguous and hard to enforce rule. I suppose you could compare it to meta IDC banned tech. You either completely ban it or you let it be legal, in the case of metas tech it was outright banned since it is 100% uncounterable. Where as say Neo http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8731484&postcount=620[/media] would consider what m2k doing as only broken vs some chars in which case you just cp and get on with your life. And SBR decided that tournies could ban planking at there own discretion but wouldn’t put it on the official rules. Hence I said falco is 55/45 disadvantage non-planking and raped with planking since even though many tournies doubt majority do consider it stalling, it’s not on official rules and not only tournies find it illegal.
I swore that you said " Me and the other top D3s" as opposed to the other top D3s and i think you edited your post since I trust my memory but I could be wrong and it doesn’t matter really since you apparently are reluctant to give your name/don’t have anything noteworthy to show. That sounds more offensive than I mean it too and shouldn’t be taken as an insult btw. Also, I’m a meta fan, me saying that he’s better than you think and/or has better matchups than displayed I would hardly call johning. Lastly, is English your second language or is it just random bad grammer due to apathy. Occasionally you type things that look…funny.
Final word on planking: DMG a B-Broomer considered a top Wario and an advocater of gayness/camping/timing out/planking etc. proposed that there be a national tourney held were planking was encouraged by all entrants so that data could be gathered and if it could be determined whether or not planking really is a game-breaking tactic or just something that people should just deal with.
Its one thing to understand a charecter and another to actually pull it off in match, which requires some frequent practice with that character. Mew2King CPed DDD randomly against Mew2King and lost for the same reason. Believe me, if anyone knows anything about matchups, its going to be Mew2King. Mew2King is a ball of genious, he always knows what the right thing to do is.
fixed for you. He only loses to a few Cali players and DDD mains because DDD versus snake is gay and because Cali plays so differently than us and he hasn’t learned how to deal with them yet. ADHD has won once and until I see him in winners finals I won’t considered him in running for top player.
Atomsk admits to not playing the Metaknight matchup right because he is too impatient and must 'always be doing something.'
Ally ALSO beat other players, METAKNIGHTS even, and STILL won, certinally you won’t say that that matchup isn’t 50-50.
A match is over in 3 minutes and you are complaining about stalling? Get out of here with that!
That’s more my lack of ability to correctly read off a computer screen and type correctly. I sometimes type words that sound like what I mean, but it isn’t what I mean, and for no reason at all, and then I can’t proofread anything off of a computer screen either as I said before. I’d have to print out my post and proffread it, and the winter cold doesn’t make my typing any better either.
Still, Brik was top 3 in the country among D3 players. I doubt he suddenly has forgotten how to play the matchup and either D3 isn’t even with meta so true or Halzy is way better than brick which…isn’t completly implausible.
M2k beat ally the last time they played. Those two are on about equal footing. I actually think m2k raped ally at C3 >_> Also Ally said he can’t really fight marth well in general atm if you are refering to haze.
Atomsk admits to not playing the Metaknight matchup right because he is too impatient and must 'always be doing something.'
Ally ALSO beat other players, METAKNIGHTS even, and STILL won, certinally you won’t say that that matchup isn’t 50-50.
What metas did ally fight and beat besides atmosk and Shadow? Shadow played ally fairly close and Atmosk is like…second on the PR in arguably the toughest region in the country though it seems Atmosk played the match wrong so that’s not really relavent.
A match is over in 3 minutes and you are complaining about stalling? Get out of here with that!
The point was the techniqe and as I said, there was a match were m2k did the same thing only he decided to fully time out meep that wasn’t put online. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9104395&postcount=14722
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8732551&postcount=665
second post wasn’t what I was looking for but if you check in that thread, you’ll hear all kinds of arguing back and forth over what is and isn’t stalling and/or bannable. Neo thought it was fair play fyi.
And now I know.
Anyways on meta, I’m not really for the ban and really enjoy meta as a player though honestly I don’t think banning meta would be unreasonable though given the “mood” of the community it doesn’t seem like it will happen anytime within the year. Having said that the year is 7 days left and if ally goes all meta from now on and nobody can beat either him or m2k, you may see ban discussion come up again.
MK will never be banned.
The BBR is intelligent and mature enough to know that it’s unreasonable to ban MK simply because he’s “too good.”
then maybe you guys should stop bashing the backroom…?
loll
Two things:Who cares if it’s not on the SBR’s official rule set. Tournament organizers are allowed to do what ever rules they want.
Secondly, planking isn’t hard to point out. They go to the ledge, and they just sit there. The only time it might get iffy is if someone is recovering, but even then you can tell if they are when they refuse to move from it. It’s not hard to enforce, just say “Hey you, get off the edge and fight.” If they want to make a big deal about it, a ref says “OK, you lost the tournament. GG.”