You do know if Sim is in the air jumping back and you cannon drill he can round house drill himself right?
Spoken like a true Dhalsim player (i.e. reactive game plan, if they do X then you do Y).
For Cammy, it’s often worth the trade. Cammy is not the type of character who can play a mostly reactionary game, she has to be played by peolpe who aren’t afraid to take a hit in order to gain position.
Obviously, though, :hk: drilling is not something you want to do categorically vs. a jumping Dhalsim. :mk: or :lk: drill will get you closer, too.
Gotta mix it up.
Don’t worry, I already have that covered 
Crossposting this from the Honda thread because it probably interests you guys:
So last Tuesday I played some HD Remix with the local Montreal crew, and the biggest surprise of the evening was a Cammy player who teared it up. I think he’s the second Cammy I’ve actually been afraid of (first being Sirlin). Now Sirlin’s #1 tool in that Cammy v Honda matchup is vertical jumping MP, everything is based on it, but this guy’s main tool was actually the crossup dizzy combo.
He did crossup jumping short, something, something, drill (KD, dizzy), then repeat. If I tried to jab headbutt or buttslam it, I just sailed under Cammy and he could throw the recovery, then repeat. If I supered, it traded with the jump short (then someone gets thrown) or it outright lost then I ate dizzy combo. It really felt like fighting Bison, because that dizzy combo was basically an instant win and he landed it 100%.
He also liked to mix it up with Hooligan after a blockstring or two if I blocked it, such that HHS or standing jab didn’t beat it (only headbutt did).
So I had to wise up a bit and just block that crossup, and not even try to slap it out of the air. Then I could ochio (if he misspaced it and whiffed the crossup) or block until the drill (then ochio), or block until the hooligan (then headbutt), or block until he just stops, for a reset at midscreen. I also had to tone down the random headbutts because he could just jump over them and punish with the dizzy combo for an instant win. Again it felt a lot like fighting a Bison with a DP, his whole game was based on that combo and some quick throws.
Pretty often he just blatantly walked up to me and crossed me up while I was downbacking. That kind of worked because of the drill threat (beats HHS startup, trades with headbutt when extended, safely chips your block) + vertical jump threat (beats headbutts, fierce HHS).
So how did I beat this? Surprisingly enough, what worked the best at close range wasn’t the HHS or headbutt, it was the jump. Jump anything beats the drill, backjump beats everything but gives up position, forwardjump early splash (:d:+:mk:) beats everything that’s not a DP including that annoying jump short. I ended up doing jumping splashes a lot, more of them at midrange and less at longrange. I also had to train myself to wait in block, then quickly headbutt hooligan “tick throws” because that’s the only thing that really works, mashing these punches for the usual ochio / HHS just gets you thrown.
Also, just blocking is pretty good, if you can afford to take a bit of chip. Just blocking mostly beats the whole crossup situation, and lets you punish DPs and misspaced drills. Better to take a bit of drill chip than to try to counter something, whiff, and instalose to that dizzy combo.
I’d first like to thank Thelo for this heads up as it provides some glorious insight for one of the most difficult matches in ST in general, if not the most difficult. Also, While I don’t know the specific combo that was used to dizzy, I do know that Cammy’s ToD (Touch of Death) combo from ST that did 50% damage and dizzies was a cross up fierce, standing strong, low forward two-in-one into a roundhouse Spiral Arrow (Cannon Drill) and worked (at least in ST anyway) especially beautifully on Honda.
This is by far Cammy’s toughest match up as we all know but don’t let it psych you out. If you play disciplined, aggressively, intelligently, and can read Honda’s charge status (charging back vs. downback vs. jumping back) quickly, victory is within the realm of reach. This is what crossed my mind while reading his adjustments to the Cammy player, feel free to critique…
so Cammy players, Cannon Spike.
So…do nothing and allow for Honda’s position to be given up.
So…obviously Cannon Spike.
So…adjust from hooligan tick throws into tick short cannon spikes or standing fierces depending on the spacing your tick created. You can also Fierce (either that or Jab, can’t recall which) Spinning Axle Knuckle off of the tick as it will pass through honda’s headbutt.
As AzN_Skater eloquently put it,
Brother Milo finessely added this Law to it
That withstanding, Cammy players, you have to be able to consistently interswap tick hooligans for tick cannon spikes, tick drills, tick spinning axle knuckles, and tick throws, in addition to being incredibly aggressive and smart in your approach. Cammy can give anyone a hard time if she can properly mix things up because her speed and delivery is what makes it so nerve wracking.
Oh, and on a side note, does anyone have any thoughts/advice on how cammy can address guile’s jab sonic boom top/down mix-up?
You guys are gonna think I’m crazy, but two of my hardest matches happen to be Gief and Hawk. I have major trouble getting in against both of these characters, especially Gief. Crossing up almost never seems to work, and hooligans are almost always stuffed. Any advice??
Probably needs more short cannon spike/thust kick (uppercut) and less jumping.
Yep I dont play Cammy, but Hooligan throw against Zangief or Hawk even sounds like a bad idea, throw in few more safe on the block cannon drills in the mix too.
Preferred method: hit/throw him so he can’t sonic boom.
Alternative method reversal cannon spike. Depening on timing, the roundhouse version might even reach far enough to catch guile through the sonic boom before the mix-up.
OK so less jumping and more safe drills. I am guilty of spamming her j. mp, which may be my issue for the hawk and gief fights.
Against Hawk:
- st. mk takes out his dive but make sure you don’t throw it out too late
- watch out for the SRK after a dive, bait it and then punish
- he will probably be jumping and throwing jabs, space yourself so that his jump lands on your cr. mk and then start the 2-in-1’s
Against Zangief:
- st. mk is your best weapon, it beats his jumps and even his jumping RH
- st. fierce can also be an AA if at the right distance, but don’t try it if you don’t know how to do it (its risky)
- drill his lariat, once he hesitates to use it then hooligan
- j. RH is a good opener
- if you throw out st. mk he also won’t be able to do the hop-in SPD fakeout, and with enough space his green fist will recover right into it
ALSO: I usually never cross these guys up, its so much easier to reverse with them. Just keep chipping them to death and using your normals to give them hell.
Are you talking about how guile does a jab sonic boom and follows behind and uses cr. mk/f+hk mixup?
As for Gief, I like to keep him away with cr. mk/s. mk and put in some j. neutral lk/hk. I always try to keep at least a sweep’s distance away from him. If you manage to get him into the corner, you severely limit his options. cr. mk will keep him away, a jump can be baited and beaten with thrust kick/cr. hp. I will try not to cross up gief because the lariat will beat it pretty clean and you definitely don’t want to be knocked down vs. gief.
For hawk…pretty much same strategy, but he can dive at you and has a decent DP. I like to use neutral lk/hk in this match too. I’m not 100% sure (someone confirm this for me), but I think if hawk hits you too high with the dive and you block it, you can hit him with cr. mk when he comes down. Crossing him up is not as scary as gief IMO, but you don’t have to risk it since you can play it safe and keep him at distance and let him play your game.
Actually, I really like neutral j. lk. I’ve been using it a lot in the Honda matchup. In my experience, it has stuff headbutt attempts from above just like j. mp AND attempts to hit you on the way down in front (which j. mp can’t do). It will also ward off butt drops since it will hit it on the way up. The great thing about it is that it comes out pretty quickly and lasts till you hit the ground. After being hit a few times with this, he’ll turtle up a bit and it should allow you to start pressuring him up close.
Because Sirlin raised the bottom of the j.:mp: hit box, that attack requires Cammy to be deeper (i.e. lower to the ground on offensive contact) than she had to be in classic ST.
Against tall characters (Zangief, T.Hawk, Sagat, Claw, maybe Boxer), if you don’t hit deep with the j.:mp:, you can be hit or grabbed easily after it, especially vs. the grapplers, since your opponent can just mash SPD.
Best not to jump in on an undizzied grappler unless you are crossing him up or coming at him from afar with :hp: or :hk:.
Yup, that is the exact mix up I’m talking about with Guile, any thoughts on beating that?
And I’d also want to second Gief help, because his crouching roundhouse just kills me and Gief in general is just a brick wall for my cammy of late so any additional info on how to beat Gief’s ground game (knock down game, lariats, etc.) would be much appreciated. I’ve tried a jab spinning axle knuckle on wake up and the like which kinda works but still, Gief has me stuck.
- stay outside his sweep range, use cr. mk > drill to chip away.
- st. mk is your anti-air and general poke, keep throwing it out
- don’t use the knuckle, its a free lariat for him or SPD
- hooligan when you’re expecting him to sweep
- general plan is this: cr. mk > drill
- after the drill if he sweeps, you hooligan; if he lariats, you drill; and if he throws jabs, you hooligan
- use st. fierce after a knockdown just to keep him on his toes, but beware of giefs who know how to reverse SPD upon getting up
Don’t get into that situation? :bgrin:
I don’t know exactly how you can deal with it. You can’t reversal since you are stuck in block stun (I believe) by the time he goes for the cr. mk/overhead. I guess you can block low then immediately switch to high block if there’s a delay? I know if they try to do a meaty boom into this mixup when you get up after a knockdown, you CAN reverse it, avoiding both the boom and hitting their sorry asses in the process…
So I’m pretty sure Ken is broken in this game. If not, he’s Cammy’s 2nd worst match up. Can’t knuckle through fireballs without perfect timing, and his SRK cancels out every single thing you have. Did no one notice this during development? I’m sorry but I think at least ONE of her 5 special moves should beat out Ken’s SRK.
I do agree that I personally believe Ken is worse than Ryu for Cammy (they’re both bad…) but its not like the matchup is 0-10, playing Damdai and GoldenArch taught me that. In particular, you have to bait out the DP and PUNISH HARD. Cammy’s poking game and mixups are really good in close. Don’t be afraid to test the Ken’s reaction with some nicely spaced st. mk and cr. mk. Don’t forget, if you bait the DP, you can poke it or TK it on reaction and then the mixup begins,
Backfist is useless, but Cammy’s walk speed is not! At full or 3/4 screen don’t be afraid to walk forward and vertical jump. If he FP SRKs you, that’ll happen if the spacing is bad, but if he misses, you get TONS of damage on him. If it hits, its only the last hit of the SRK which is not much damage at all. You have to pull out all the tricks, but Cammy has a deep enough bag that you can get the better of Ken a couple times.
She’s the bottom of the tier list for a reason. Only thing to do get is out of the fireball-sweep pattern range and start using intelligent poking. Block the tatsu and throw, punish SRK with st. mk and cr. mk. When you get a chance: cross up!
Yeah I do bait the DPs but for whatever reason I can’t punish him fast enough - the recovery on lp srk is so fast that he just throws out another one and it cancels out whatever I try. the only thing i’ve had success with landing is c. mk. is there anything better to punish with that i just need to work on my timing with?