Cannon Spike! The Cammy Thread

Hey Dodgers, I very much am new to Cammy, but if you’re building on your front page, here’s some of the things I’ve scene and experienced with Cammy. I hope to find more expirenced players discuss these insights, be it for good or ill, I hope we can all learn/teach something.

C.mk/s.mk/s.hp -> lk.Cannon Drill

This is the bread and butter to my Cammy. This is easily spamable as the poke (C.mk/S.mk/S.hp) puts her often at perfect range for a lk.Cannon Drill, which keeps her safe. The biggest part of this though is seeing your opponents reactions immediately after. Often times you just want the poke-drill to be on it’s own. It leaves you safe and gives your opponent the sense that you loose control of the match after the sequence (Which is a falsehood).

Some opponents continue to block, allowing you to move in to try this again to force their reaction, while others try and gain control by throwing out a poke/fireball/dragon punch maneuver. The nice part of this is alot of players are pretty consistent, and since this maneuver is for the most part safe, you can actually extend the pressure appropriately.

If you find they try to take back the control/pressure/attack by sticking something out, the reaction time of doing a Cannon Spike by buffering it behind lk.Cannon Drill is amazing, giving you the knockdown to set up the trap again. Sometimes if they block you can maintain the illusion of pressure by repeating this maneuver until they try something rash as an appropriate response.

Lastly, because you have used this to ‘train’ your opponent to expect poke-lk.cannon drill, you can actually switch it up to go into Hooligan Combo-to-Frankenstiener Throw. It should be noted that for Hooligan Combo to Frankenstiener Throw to be effective, it should be completely pushed out of your opponents mind. Some players will find awnsers that snuffs both drill and spike (Well executed Shoryuken for instance), so you have to be sure you trained the responce out of your opponent. Once one of these hits, your opponent tends to panic, waiting for the next one (If this is the case, it should never come out a 2nd time, it’s done more damage to your opponent than any combo could).

Spinning Backfist

One of the staples to Cammy’s offense is to suddenly burst through an opponent’s zoning game with Spinning Backfist. This is a move that is often under great scrutiny, as it’s not safe, but offer’s Cammy one of her best options to get in on an opponent. During it’s hop motion, Cammy cannot be struck by projectiles (Save for Akuma’s air fireball), and is immune to low attacks. LP varrient sees the most action from agressive cammy players, as she is able to do react to common attack strings that end in fireball, alowing Cammy a knockdown and a chance to gain control of the match. Also, it means her footsies are considerably better than most, since many characters rely on a low hitting crouch poke to do anything, cammy can bypass these and two-hit them.

Another common point is Cammy is fully comfortable just holding back against projectile characters and just spamming lp.spinning backfist to build meter with there opponents. This can lead to some interesting trickery, as using LP.Spinning Backfist sets you up closer to your opponent, enough so that most shotos may try for another fireball.

This is where HP.Spinning Backfist comes into play. Where as LP varient is excellent for awnsering close up zoning and projectile pressure, HP can seem to come out of nowhere. It’s not even remotely safe, so you have to set up your opponent at roughly 3/8ths screen distance. The big advantage is with Cammy having some of the best movement speed, she can very well go from full screen to half-screen distance in a blink, making it hard for an opponent to be sure if the projectile he throws will be enough to stop you from reacting with Spinning Backfist to knock him down.

I think this may have been mentioned before but this early in the mornign im far too lazy to go searching. Whats tool should you use to deal with a lockdown dhalsim? Ive been shut down in the corner with yoga flames and his normals, how do you escape this, thrust kicks or c. strong? Or should i poke him with cannon drills?

Straight Jump MP.

What would you say is the best way to use the jumping strong, unlike a jumping jab the strong comes out relatively briefly leaving me alot of vulnerable in air time. Should I just be jumping and then hit strong on reaction to my opponent doing something? Or maybe there’s some ideal time to hit the strong like just before or just after you reach the peak of your jump, though either of those leave you very vulnerable on the way up or right before you land.

Also, in honda match ups what do I do if he’s at mid screen (instead of full screen) spamming torpedos and mixing in the occasional hundred hand slaps as from that distance the slaps will often be on me so quickly I don’t have time to switch out of whatever tactic I’m using? If I spam jabs I can stop the torpedos but they take out almost negligible life totals while as soon as he comes in with a hundred hand slap I seem to lose in an instant double the life I’ve taken out of him in the 20 seconds I spent landing my jabs. If I spam low strongs the torpedos eat me alive. If I jump strong, well as stated above the problem is he often catches me during those moments before or after the strong goes away and again all he has to do is get one good hit on me and I quickly find myself behind in life after what felt like an eternity of stalling and occasionally poking him and minimal damage.

One thing missing off the first post, the cancel option for the hooligan throw. I’ve had some success baiting with it from a distance, cancelling and watching them DP into thin air for an easy opening :slight_smile:

thanks alot MacabreDerek. Come strong, come often

To be honest, if Honda gets you in that position, the best thing to do is to jump away and hit Strong on the way down, and reset the match. Trying to win at that position is painful.

Of course, the joke is on Cammy, in the end, because she HAS to get into that distance to win if she’s behind. But at least try to get there on your terms, and not when Honda is spamming attacks on you.

Of course, if you are in the corner, it’s tough because you can’t jump away. At that point, however, I would do a lot more Jump Straight Up and Down in the corner with Strong. If he Headbutts and you happen to be timed right to hit him on the way down, you can cause him some major pain.

And then the Honda will realize his mistakes and go back to turtling. Grrrrrggh…

  • James

Okay, I have to do this, because I need to see maybe my biggest problem is that I’m still stuck with vanilla ST habits with Cammy. but I SWEAR she’s worse off in this game than in Vanilla ST. The Cannon Drills are nice and so is the Spinning Backfist, but they only seem to make her better in matches that she wasn’t too bad in in the first place. So this is how I see things right now.

CHARACTER / OLD WIN RATE / NEW WIN RATE
Vs. Ryu: (3-7) / (4-6)
Vs. Ken: (5-5) / (5-5)
Vs. Honda: (0-10) / (1-9)
Vs. Chun: (4-6) / (3-7)
Vs. Blanka: (4-6) / (3-7)
Vs. Zangief: (7-3) / (6-4)
Vs. Guile: (2-8) / (2-8)
Vs. Dhalsim: (7-3) / (5-5)
Vs. T.Hawk: (9-1) / (8-2)
Vs. Fei Long: (5-5) / (4-6)
Vs. Dee Jay: (2-8) / (2-8)
Vs. Boxer: (3-7) / (4-6)
Vs. Claw: (6-4) / (4-6)
Vs. Sagat: (2-8) / (4-6)
Vs. Dictator: (4-6) / (4-6)

I count that as 4 matches as getting better, 4 as staying the same, and 7 as getting worse.

I can go into more detail on each match on why I feel this way, but it really doesn’t feel like Cammy got better at all. Her improvements haven’t helped any of her worse matchups at all, save for Sagat. And the matches she used to win, she no longer wins as well, especially Dhalsim, where losing her Jump Strong REALLY killed her in that match. Now she fights him like every other sad person who can never jump at him from any distance. It’s very irritating.

I dunno, I’ve been playing exclusively her online recently (instead of random select) so I can get a true bead on her, and so far, I’m really not happy with the results.

  • James

how did chun and blanka got worst?

pretty much giving up on my BnB (crossup lk, cr.mp cr.mkxxcannon drill) vs shoto’s… it just does NOT work mid screen!!! :frowning: I can get this on just about any character except for them.

So in vanilla ST, one of the main problems with Chun is the Lightning Kick and the Fireball. Both are really hard to get past, especially when combined with each other. The one move that allowed Cammy to stay competitive was Jumping Strong. You could usually hit Chun in the head before she could stop the Lightning Kicks (if you predicted it) and jump over Fireballs for free if you were close enough.

The problem is that the Jumping Strong always hit her in the head early, or she had time to run under you. Simple fix: the Cannon Spike. If you hit her in the head early, she could Throw you when you landed before you could do anything else… except Cannon Spike. If she ran under you, you could land with a Cannon Spike as well, preventing any run under + Throw.

Now, the problem is, Cannon Spike isn’t safe in either of those situations anymore. In fact, I based a HUGE chunk of my anti-Chun Li game on the safe Cannon Spike. And most of them would connect right next to Chun, which is not safe anymore in this game.

Granted, she can’t kill you with free D/F Roundhouses anymore, but that’s fine… she can now Turtle you to death, which is always Cammy’s biggest weakness. Spin Knuckling through Fireballs can only get you so far, because that move is so damned slow. I feel like it needed a speed increase to go along with its new hitting range… right now, it’s good for people who aren’t used to it, but once it becomes a commonly used move, it’ll become useless again. It’s just too easy to hit her out of it.

For Blanka, you used to be able to Cannon Drill the Blanka Ball back. Now you can’t, so he’s gained an ENTIRELY new offensive tactic vs. her that he was missing before. And he already won the fight before because Jumping Straight up and down really hurts Cammy. Now he has the freedom to even do Horizontal Balls whenever he wants, giving Cammy something else to worry about.

Nothing she gained helps her enough in those fights to make up for the things she lost. It’s frustrating to say the least.

  • James

Can anyone explain to me the difference between lp/hp spinning backfist? I haven’t noticed too big of a difference between them and they both have been working to get me past fireballs fine

Also, is one better than the other for a meaty attack? Thanks for whoever it was that suggested it a couple pages back though… meaty spinning backfists have been destroying a LOT of my opponents as long as I can time it right

i see, thanks for the insight. can you explain the vega match up old and new?

just what is the cannon spike/thrust kick not safe against anymore compared to vanilla ST? it still feels semi-safe to me in hd remix. either that or people havent found ways to punish it yet.

as for blanka, true you dont get a free cannon drill after a blocked ball, but if you hit him out of the ball now, he takes extra damage so that should make blanka players more wary of trying to go offensive with the balls

it’s true that you can get thru fireballs now but it seems like you can almost get baited into doing it and then they can retalate with a sweep so it’s best used if you are anticipating a fireball, the LP version seems to cut the time between when the actual punch comes out (but it could be just me?)

also just an idea… lets say you are ahead but don’t have a full meter and you aren’t too anxious to get in… why not just stand back and jump thru fireballs with the LP knuckle if they are a full screen away throwing fireballs… if they can’t reach you there is no reason to jump over them… that is if you’re not trying to be agressive at the time… because then with a full meter instead of jumping through the fireballs with the spin knuckle you can go through them with your super instead

regarding safe cannon drill vs safe thrust kick… yep… it wonder if this was a good trade? I actually think they should have left thrust kick how it was. I don’t think this would have made cammy overly strong.

Thanks… guess I’ll start using mostly LP knuckle now unless it’s a meaty one

Really wish it was safe thrust kick that was kept instead… Cannon drill loses to most specials from non-fireball characters and can’t go through fireballs, so the safeness on it only helps with pressuring and cornering your opponent situations

Gotta say this thread’s been pretty helpful though, my ratio with Cammy’s gone up from 1-1 to roughly 2-1 ~ 5-3 now… though my Ryu has gotten much worse (or other people are just getting better) :smiley:

What else do you want? That works out pretty well already.

I want my safe lk cannon drill into safe lk cannon spike from CVS2 lol =\

Since when was Cannon Spike in CvAss ever been safe on block?

Anyways, after a lot of locals games in my area for STHD, I’m still liking Cammy, and on knockdown I’m able to get dizzy combo’s off of meaty j.shorts into standing strong, forward, rh cannon drill. Though, her cannon spikes on block would have still been nice.

Is there a point to playing a character that will always lose on counterpick ?

I mean if you want to get good at HDR and want to start going to tournaments.

Is there any point to trying to main cammy since you will always lose to a counterpick or main Honda ?

From sirlins balance article on Honda: “I was willing to admit the problem was real. And yet, it felt very wrong to give any of these nerfs. Even if they are justified against Cammy, they certainly aren?t against Guile because that match is so difficult for Honda. When the players were discussing ochio throw nerfs, I once blurted out that Honda deserved to do 100% damage with that move if it hit Guile. (If you don?t believe that, try playing against John Choi?s Guile. Or Kurahashi?s or Muteki?s if you?re in Japan.)”

He fixed the Guile problem by making jab headbutt go trough projectiles.

Yet he did not balance the Cammy - Honda matchup even after being shown how ridicolous it was.

Did he just not think people would care ?

…He plays Honda, that’s why! :rofl: