good stuff 
Iāve had Guileās Flash Kick blocked numerous times in the air. Sometimes I thought I did the deepest (uppercut type) flash kick and it was still blocked.
As mentioned earlier, certain anti air type moves can be blocked in the air if performed too early. And if performed while on the ground (deep), it connect each time.
My question is, how would one know when the flash kick is performed from the ground (deep) so it connects each time like a deep uppercut?
Thanks in advance for the reply.
it can be airblocked at all pointsā¦ like other special movesā¦ like Blanka ball and Honda headbutt.
Buktooth88, do you have any ground breaking stuff for rock, or king 
I donāt think you can air block hondaās headbutt on the first hit, since heās still on the ground.
Ok, mechzangieft, you gotta understand that ādeepā is relative to your opponentās jumpin. You cannot do a deep uppercut on an early Vega jumping rh unless you are psychic. If you do attempt to uppercut his leg (which means u did an early uppercut, which means ur psychicā¦or u just plain guessed, which is what Iām saying), then he will be able to airblock ur uppercut if you guessed wrong. Hence the guessing game.
Also, Hondaās jab Headbutt cannot be airblocked if done deep. Again, u can trick Honda by doing an early jumpin and he is forced to block it. This is one of the ways u can get in on Honda. If he switches up anti-airs like using s. fierce or short Buttdrop, u can use attacks which outpriotize the s. fierce or just block the Buttdrop (yes it can be airblocked). This is again an example of guessing when jumping in.
This is why jumping in == bad. Itās a guessing game, not always in ur favor.
Btw, Iāll add my little trick here that i just discovered while playing my friend on PS2. I dunno if its consistent but he did it 2-3 times and Guileās forward Flashkick beat my Blanka crossup forward CLEAN.
Ok lets start all over again, I am pretty sure I am not the only one who is confused. Please explain by what you mean by early jumping roundhouse?? I am just saying, you can wait till the last possible moment before their character hits you/gets near you, and uppercut, you should be able to take advantage of the invisbility frames and beat their attack out. It really should not matter whether they attacked early in their jump or lateā¦
Look, first, do u know the difference between a deep and an early jumpin? They hit at different times. During a deep jumpin, u press the button as late as possible. During an early jumpin, u press the button early. So, ur opponent can either connect his jumpin early or late depending on whether he did it deep or early.
Now, there are 4 things taht can happen:
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If he did it early, and u are used to doing deep uppercuts, u will block it, because u did not expect him to stick out his leg while his body was still that high in the air.
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If he did it early, and u anticipated the early jumpin, u will hit his foot with ur invincible uppercut, and no trading will occur.
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If he did it deep, and u expected early, ur uppercut will come out early, and he will airblock it in the air.
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If he did it deep, and u expected deep, u will hit him clean.
So, as u can see, itās a total guess when ur talking about uppercutting GOOD jumpins.
1.No, I will not block it, I will still perform an uppercut and beat him cleanly. Why would him attacking early scare me from uppercutting is beyond me?
2.If you do an early uppercut, then you are not going to have invisibility so that is when you will trade or not trade based on priority of that attack against your uppercut.
3.If you perform a deep uppercut while he is deep too, then you are going to knock him out of the air. The only time he will airblock your uppercut is when you attempt to anticipate his jump so uppercut too early(you leave the ground the same time or before he jumps) therefore making it an air-to-air attack and him being able to block it.
4.Yes, you are correct.
Why do you think fireball/DP traps were so deadly, because DPs beat out ALL JUMP INS. If there were so many mixups so you claim to just jumping in, I am sure lots more people would be attempting to abuse this, but there isnāt.
Itās because in old SFāers, the Shotos had FULLY INVINCIBLE SHORYUKENS. Thatās y.
And the reason some ppl donāt abuse this is because they donāt know about it. And there arenāt many times u want to tradeā¦but there are times u do, such as when ur a higher ratio then him, and u know that tradin a few times with a big boot to his face will dizzy him in a few trades.
ST didnt have fully invincible uppercuts.
Yet the fireball DP trap is still just as potent.
Anyway back to cvs2.
If you roll cancel Hondaās 360, you can jab and the jab will still be invinceable.
Which if someone had perfect execution, you could do that shit all day, and would just plain win. You get jabbed, or you get 360ād, or both.
Too bad no one can do that shit.
I think what (THE) Geese is talking about is something weāve all experienced at one time or another.
Any Sagat player in old game (hell, even the new ones) had to deal with this kind of thing. If they throw the attack early enough from the right spot, you get kicked in the face if you tried to DP. Either you just got beaned BEFORE you DP, or you traded out of your DP.
I think I know what he means by it being really hard to do the correct DP if they throw the proper attack from the right spot. (ranged Yama j.MK anyone?)
But hereās the thing, we were just timing it wrong. Then you learned to stay ducking so your opponent HAD to hit you deep.
(THE) Geese says Vega j.RH wonāt beat it, Buktooth said he went in training and it worked for him. I suggest you (Geese :)) go and find a scenario in training or whatever where Vega j.RH does in fact trade/beat with Athena MP DP. Tell us the distance, and how early to do it (do I hit the tip of Athenaās head? a little earlier? etc) and weāll all go try it out. Then you could easily prove your point.
Philth, when RC was first discovered (on SRK anyways) people discussed trying to abuse RC 360/whiff with honda.
Some said invincibility lasted long enough, some didnāt. I think it eventually settled on it NOT lasting long enough to be safe.
Is it something ridiculous like you have to cancel the roll on the very first frame or else it doesnāt work or something?
I donāt see how that would plain out win eitherā¦ but thatās just me. interesting though.
This is just a myth that was spread around (ironically, by myself and tragic) right when RCs were discovered. This was when it was thought that RC invulnerability lasted as long as the characterās roll (which many people still believe). If RCs did indeed last for the full length of a roll then CvS2 would play WAY differently right now. The average roll is 31 frames, which would make certain whiffed RC moves totally safeā¦ not to mention Blanka/Bison/Honda torpedoes would be invincible ALL the way across the screen.
Anyway, the Honda grab thing was completely forgotten about, then like last week I ran a test on it and thereās indeed vulnerability time at the end of Hondaās grab. Itās really short, but itās there nonetheless. Hondaās whiff grab is a mere 17 frames long, so if you add the 1-3 frames extra start up time for RCing , you can deduce that RC invulnerability is definitely no longer than 17-19 frames.
12/29/03:
Another pretty old trick, but still one I donāt see used nearly enough. Most of us have seen at one point or another somebody activate a CC while their opponent clearly had a normal move sticking out, then the opponent somehow cancels the move into an uppercut and knocks the other guy out of the CC. This was called proximity cancelling, and was basically another form of kara-cancelling mainly being used in A2/A3. This applies to pretty much any Capcom game with some kind of super flash though, and also applies to supers in addition to CCs. Successfully proximity cancelling with a DP is much harder in CvS2 than it is in other games since inputs arenāt valid during the super flash, but youāll still see it from time to time. Certain characters have a MUCH easier time of it, though. Namely: Blanka, Vega and Hibiki.
All three of these characters can just mash on KKK (or in Vegaās case, PPP) and proximity cancel almost any normal move they had sticking out into an invincible back hop, back flip or dodge. This works because in the small period of time after the super flash where inputs ARE vaild (usually about 3-4 frames for a super and probably around 4-5 for a CC), itās a lot easier to do 1 input (b+KKK) then 3 (f,d,df+p).
In short, youāre Blanka, and A-Bison activates CC while you have a low short out. Dead Blanka, right? However, he does a low forward, and you mash on b+KKK to proximity cancel your low short and hop back to safety. Of course, thereās a million ways to counter this, but it comes in handy a LOT.
ICā¦ this is what I think I was talking about in the other thread which turned into a discussion about unblockable CCs. So you can actually DP the āunblockableā CCs (go low before they can go into a crouching block from standing)ā¦ since they give you a bit of a time frame to cancel into a special moveā¦ or can you only input a command if you stuck something out?
What this isnāt A2, i havenāt seen any unblockable CCs proven yet, but that has to do with blocking, proximity cancel wouldnāt be affected, so the escapes would still work.
Unblockable CCs are in the game, but they are the kind that start with grabs.
I just wanted to say thank you first and foremost, all this is nice information. I have a question though, and Iām fairly serious about it. Would you say any char within the top two three tiers are usable? Or are the top three just way too over powered? I only ask because Iām going to play a little bit, and I like some of the 2nd/3rd stringers and enjoy playing them, but Iām also serious about competeingā¦ Serious enough to pick viable chars and let the fun charās stay in casuals.
I could ask you some other things, but I should probably try and look them up before I just go asking, right?
-R
Yea,
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread46776.php
that was what I was referring to as unblockable CCs. I figured unblockable is the easiest to use term for them. My only question about this is, how come, you have like a 4 frame input to enter a DP or some special moveā¦ but assuming you are not in a blocking state before the flash and they do the āunblockableā cr MK or whatever the hell you want to call it, how come you canāt go into a blocking state? So this 4 frame window for inputs after a CC activation is only to cancel a whiffed normal into a special? You canāt use it to block if you had not stuck out anything but were not blocking before the flash.
I went into training and tried the blanka KKK thing.
I set rolento to CC, then d.MK. I timed it so the MK would be unblockable or whatever if not already blocking. If I wasnāt in defensive crouch, I got hit everytime. I couldnāt KKK backhop out of the d.MK at all. Even set KKK to one button. mashed and mashedā¦ Tried it a bunch oā times too. Is it just me?
Oh yeah, Iām lovinā this Athena strong DP thing. I can even hit Rugal dive punch thingie everytime if I do it deep. Good enough for me!