Whoops. Well, I’ve never seen you do it! -_-
Anyway, my slightly optimized version is:
a) Low forward, jab grab
b) Low short, low forward, dirt, arm
Mix up a) has to be jab grab; it’s the only thing that will reach.
As for mix up b), low short looks exactly the same as Yama’s low forward, and it offers slightly more frame advantage. This makes it easier to time the low forward so that your opponent can’t jump out/interrupt it. It also leaves you closer so that you can get a full low forward XX dirt XX arm combo on most chars.
Athena’s strong uppercut is actually a real anti air. The startup has upper body invulnerability, so it’ll reliably anti-air most any jump in that doesn’t point downwards. Characters whose jump ins can’t beat Athena’s strong uppercut include Sagat, Cammy, Iori, and possibly even Bison and Chun Li.
I THINK you can CC off of Athena’s strong uppercut. Not quite sure though. Of course, you could just RC fierce uppercut for pretty much the same effect…
buk, what about rock’s j. rh, ryo’s j. rh, terry’s j. rh, etc. Lots of jumpins are very high priority in this game. I think Athena’s j. rh beats Athena’s strong uppercut too. The list is too long to list.
If the DP has invulnerability, it should win vs normals. It follows that upper body invincible moves should always beat high attacks.
It was posted before (by buk regarding sagat’s DP) that the DP may pass through the attack boxes, but not hit the character in time, so their move is still active when the invulnerability ran out and wins/trades (whats the rule on trading anyway?). The technical explaination is that the DP whiffed (since it was definately not hit or blocked), but on the screen it looks like it was beaten out.
The way I sometimes anti air with Athena is with the jab DP, early so that her … psycho energy or whatever hits the enemy by the tip. That way it gives her more time to activate into sj mk etc. But knowing about the strong version sounds better, thanks.
Would it be more effecient to just do low jab x 2 instead? Its enough to verify off of. That way you won’t be giving up any damage if your initial meaty attack hits. If it hits, cancel the last jab into low short–>Sand kick–>snake arm, if not, command grab(your still in range for the jab version), or standing fierce–> snake arm. I think Shiro does a similar pattern.
Really, when it comes down to jumpin vs. anti-air, it’s all a matter of guessing. If someone like Ryo decides to jumpin with an early jumping rh, and you wanted to do a deep uppercut, no matter how much invincibility you have, he will trade with u if you didnt see it coming. On the other hand, if you expected him to do the j. rh early, and u did your uppercut early, and then he doesn’t kick because he wanted a deep jumpin, then he will airblock ur uppercut and ur fucked. So it comes down to guessing. The only time you don’t guess is by doing anti-airs that come out high and are normal moves (can’t be air-blocked) such as Guile’s s. strong or c. fierce. Those are no-nonsense anti-airs that screw any jumpin up.
Mmmmm… You get invincibility for your uppercuts for the sole purpose of having invincibility… If you trade with someone’s early jump in, then you are doing your uppercut too early. Jumping vs. anti air is a matter of reaction speed and your execution skills.
no that’s the whole point, if u don’t do an early uppercut, then u will be forced to block the jumpin. i’m talking about early jumpins which point downward liek Ryo’s and Sagat’s.
I just tested it, and it works against EVERY high priority jump-in I could think of (the ones you listed, Kyo’s d+fierce, Blanka’s j.rh, Vega’s j.rh) as long as you do it deep enough. The only problem is the uppercut is a little slow to come out… think Joe’s short uppercut.
EDIT: Oh, I just tried it against Bison’s j.rh and Chun’s j.short. Beats Bison clean every time, trades with Chun 90% of the time. If you do the uppercut REALLY deep then you win clean.
Oh and yes, you CAN CC off of it. It’s kinda hard, though.
Hmm. That’s really good too. The main difference is, if the opponent tries to jump out, s.fierce isn’t fast enough to catch them on the ground. If you do low forward into the low arm at that range it won’t combo usually, and a lot of chars can crouch the mid arm.
It is borrowed from Ed. Probably 75% (if not more) of my Yamazaki is taken straight from Ed, then tinkered with a bit to fit how I play.
Anyways, there are a few things I do off the low forward option tree. Low forward into knife combos more reliably than low forward into snake. Something I found out by screwing up this input is that very close low forward 2-in-1 into overhead will hit most characters (Rolento, Cammy, Hibiki, Nako you have to be right on top of).
The main things I do (in order of priority)
Low forward (block). Jab headbutt/super.
Low forward (block). Low forward xx fierce knife (I assume the 2nd will be blocked).
Low forward (block). Stand jab. (This is anti-Blanka or anti-jump forward). After jab hits, run and skid right next to them. Low forward again.
Low forward (hit or block) xx overhead. (It’s a 2-in-1, so it’s pretty much a flat out guess. Works about the same either way).
Low forward (hit) xx dust xx whip. (You can mix this up with not doing the whip and instead do run, skid, super. This mixup sucks but is ripped straight from KoF98 which is the only reason I do it in the first place).
Low forward (counter hit). Low forward, jab knife.
Low forward (super meaty + counter hit). Stand fierce xx fierce knife.
My new toy in this little pattern comes off the stand jab pattern. Run a bit and super jump with short. You’ll land right on the other side next to them and can do low forward mixup again. Since I started playing N groove, almost always do jump over short into level 1 super.
Pointless overload of information that nobody will use is finished. Just read the first 2 options in the tree, that’s like all you need. If you meaty the first low forward right, you can’t be reversed on option 2. That’s pretty much all I ever do against non-Valle.
Also, this entire option tree works almost exactly the same off towards+MP (non-command overhead). That’s Viscant mixup version 2.0. Nobody does it with good reason. Towards+strong doesn’t seem to counterhit anything whereas low forward beats a lot of random stuff like flash kicks and Kim wakeups for no apparent reason.
I don’t think u guys are getting what I’m saying. You can’t reliably do a deep uppercut if your opponent doesn’t do a deep jumpin himself.
If your opponent does an early jumpin, unless you’re psychic and/or could see it coming during that 1/4 second extension of the leg, then you will have to block it. If you tried to do the uppercut, you WILL trade with an early (let’s say) Vega j. rh.
No, an early,medium, or late Vega RH will lose, the catch is that vega actually has to be in range of the DP while it is invulnerable. That is spacing, not timing. The point was that if you do a DP that’s actually going to hit, it’s not going to lose to another move. Noone is assuming the WHOLE DP is invulnerable, we’re just talking about the part that matters.
I’m not doubting that an uppercut’s start will go thru anything. I’m saying that doing it so that the uppercut can’t be airblocked and/or won’t trade depends on the person doing the jumpin. Anyway, it’s obvious we’re not getting through to one other, so i’ll just let the issue die.
I’m told this is really old, but I accidentally found this myself recently so…:
With Kim, kick throw the opponent, then immediately do an empty super jump forward. Kim will appear to land behind the opponent, then he’ll pop up in front of them for whatever reason. I’ve done this like 4-5 times and it’s NEVER been blocked before. If you want to actually cross up the opponent, just walk forward a tiny (almost imperceptible) bit before you super jump.
Well I know that Sagat’s dp starts hitting from the ground even before he leaves the air. So no matter what, if you do Tiger Uppercut deep you can’t even airblock it if you wanted to. I’m pretty sure that Iori’s fp. dp works to that same effect. I think this is the point they are trying to communicate to you.
Any other dp’s work to that effect? Ken’s and Akuma’s fp. dp’s look like they start hitting before they leave the ground, but is their invincibility the same as Sagat’s? I know Buktooth will answer faithfully, the well of wisdom that he is.
Airblocking only works on air to air attacks, any attack that comes from the ground, you cannot airblock. If someone air blocked your uppercut, it is because you performed your uppercut too early, so it is considered an air attack at that time.
