Okay, so Gunter’s provided a good list of why Sakura is beastly… and I already know that Sagat is beastly. Still, it seems to me that A-Sakura has just a little bit more going for her than C-Sagat does, and with less problem matches too. So, Gunter or anyone else, can you explain why Japan (as far as I know) still puts A-Sak and C-Sagat on equal footing? I would rank Sagat the #2 character myself…
Wtf Jason you never showed me that one before. Trying to keep me down eh. :lol:
Anyways I honestly never knew that but I really didnt start playing games like this until CvS2 so im working ass backwards. There are still alot of OS tricks I dont know about and I still suck at all the older SF games.
I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else for that matter. But if you really have to be a punk and challenge me online like this, then practice up and we’ll meet up at the next Evo.
You go breaking down all the things Gunter said, but can’t you obviously see that almost all of it is right? Once that bruise on your ego heals, I suggest you come back and read his post once again… thoroughly this time.
Alpha counters all day are not free, and you can’t super or dp 80% of the time if I’m doing a pressure string like c.MP xx hurricane. None of the characters in the game can even hit her after.
Keep rolling all day versus Sakura’s corner trap strings too. Better for me in the long run.
A-Sak is weak, but her BnB combos/high damage CC and moves that can be RC’d make up for that.
Sagat is alot stronger then Sakura and doesn’t have to rely on his meter to kill an opponent. Sagat has one of the best moves in the game too, his s.jab is really abusive and he has decent guard break combos aswell.
If you put both of them against each other Sakura would most likely lose if she misses her CC/Sagat alpha-counters it or if she eats a super. Sagat might be in trouble if Sakura abuses him with some nicely placed RC hurricane kicks or eats her whole CC. It would be a close match up but things could turn the other way in a split second.
Make sense? 
Only scrubs RC roundhouse hurricane kick from half/full screen so Cammy can walk back and roundhouse her as she lands. Anything less than that, proximity blocking gets in the way when my Cammy tries to walk back.
Sakura dive kicks are a lot, lot better than many people think too. I’ve seen Vega die to nothing but dive kicks because he keeps trying to walk forward, c.MP every time Sakura does one. The roundhouse dive kick from full screen away is too cheap. I do jump forward LK with Cammy to knock Sakura out of the air instead.
With sak jus throw lots of standing jabs to place her where you wan’t,she won’t be able to walk back as muck,wait for wiff RH ,slowly advance her in a corner,if you land a blocked dive kck s.FxxF.fball=like 50% gaurd,you can small jump in on her,try for crossup.I don’t think sak looses this fight it’s jus that they have to play the same game to get in,so its like patiance vs wiffs,it sucks that cammy can get lvl3 of her poke though,then again if sak sees a wiff rh you can activat CC to shoryuken(?)
Nice info to know. I do Dive kicks, but I only do them to gain meter…
Well, I just tested things right now, and Vega c.MK loses to dive kick 95% of the time and trades the other 5%, regardless of range. She does have a couple frames of recovery when she hits the ground, so maybe the Vega was trying to c.MK to hit the recovery and pressed the button early.
Cammy’s s.RH, on the other hand, will reliably trade with dive kicks if timed right, just as long as the dive kick isn’t too close (i.e., it wouldn’t have hit you if you didn’t press roundhouse).
He said C.MP not C.MK 
Haha… OK, I admit I can’t read.
I tested the Vega c.MP, and while it isn’t as pathetic against the dive kick as his c.MK, it’s still not half as reliable trading with the dive kick as Cammy’s s.RH (and it does less damage, too). And, as far as I can tell, dive kicks from a full screen away will beat Vega’s c.MP EVERY TIME, whereas Cammy’s s.RH will trade or beat a full screen dive kick pretty much every time.
Health from Timer
Sorry that this is off topic, but I figured this was just about the best place to ask/discuss.
Does anyone know the formula that calculates how much life you gain back according to the time left on the clock when you win a round? I checked the system faqs on gamefaqs but neither one had the exact formula or even an estimate (unless I missed it in some random place other than the 'timer" section of the faqs, but I'm pretty sure I checked them adequately).
Here is the reason I ask. When I first started playing this game (which was only a few months ago), I read a lot of info saying that you had to use a 1-1-2 ratio. However it seemed that no one knew why, only that it gave you more HP, but that didn't make sense to me. I'd been planning researching it, but forgot about it until I read about Ino's team losing to an R4 raiden, and how surprised everyone was. So here's what I found:
Let me explain it. First off, you have to remember, the main thing we are considering here is DAMAGE POTENTIAL - NOT HP. This seems to be what people are forgetting. You could have a character with 1 million HP, but if he only does 1 HP damage per hit, he is no different than a character with 1000 HP that does 1000 damage a hit - if they were to fight, they would die at the exact same time (provided they hit at the same rate).
This concept carries over to weight classes. My research/calculations were done using the R2 14400 weight class because this is the middle class. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't extend to the other weight classes. This is because (theoretically) all the classes have the same damage potential. In other words, an R1 Chang and an R1 Shin Akuma in a fight will die at the exact same time, because although Chang has more life than S.Akuma, S.Akuma will be dealing more damage than Chang in the same ammount of time.
Ok, so first, I tested to make the sure HP percentages and Dmg percentages that I got from the systems faqs on gamefaqs were right (hell, I was gonna do all this work anyway). So that top table is where I recorded the overall data. Interestingly, I did find one exception, when an R4 fights another R4, instead of doing the normal 140% damage, they each do 104% instead. The best reasons I can come up with on why is Capcom figured "hell, they each only have 1 character, make the fight longer."
Now onto the meat. The bottom table shows how much damage a 1-1-2 team will deal to other teams in the time it takes to kill them. For example, the first column, The first R1 will deal 7266.46 damage to the R4 before he dies. So will the second R1. And then the R2 will deal 11076.92 damage which excedes the R4's HP, meaning he dies before the R2 does. Furthermore, the difference between the damage the R2 could have dealt and the life the R4 had left was 5449.84 (in other words, if the R4 had 5449.84 more HP they would have died at the exact same time).
The next two columns continue in this fashion with one exception each. In both columns, there is a matchup of equal ratios. For example, in the 1-1-2 vs 1-3, the first fight ir R1 vs R1, and theoretically, they will die at the same time. Therefore, the entire match is the same as one R3 fighting and R1+R2. The same goes for the 1-1-2 vs 2-2. The last fight is R2 vs R2 and they cancel each other out. However, there is the small detail in the 1-1-2 vs 2-2 that the second R1 will actually kill the first R2 on team 2, so he will continue to fight the second R2 and then die. This wasn't accounted for because the ammount of time it takes the second R1 to kill the R2 determines how much life he gets back, and in turn determines how much damage he deals to the second R2.
I hope this isn’t getting too confusing ^^;
The last row (1-1-2 vs 3-1) is the most confusing because there are no cancelations. Therefore, this was calculated assuming no life regeneration. To sum up that column, the R2 finally kills the R3 early in it's round (after the first two R1's chipped away at the R3 bringing it down to 700.3 HP remaining) taking only 819.36 damage in the process, and then the R2 goes on to kill the R1 on team 2.
Notice the difference between a 3-1 and a 1-3 fighting the 1-1-2; a difference of about 1500HP simply because the R3 fights different people.
So, it would appear that the second best team to fight against 1-1-2 is actually R1-R3, but this may not be as it appears. In that fight, the only life gain on either side is when the R3 defeats the second R1. On the other hand, in a 1-1-2 vs 4 fight, not only does the R4 gain life twice instead of once, but he will also gain more life because he kills R1's faster than the R3 does.
So now back to the original question and point of this post. In the case of 1-1-2 vs R4, if the R4 is able to gain 2724.93 life back for each of the first 2 rounds, he will be exactly even with the 1-1-2 team. And when you consider how quickly an R4 can kill and R1, this seems pretty accurate. Furthermore, should the R4 gain any more life that that, he will actually be at an advantage when going against the R2.
Also note, there is a strategy against fighting an R4 with 1-1-2. The R4 will not recieve nay life back after defeating the 3rd character - the match is over. So placing the R2 in your last possition is actually an advantage for the R4 because it takes him longer to beat an R2 than an R1. Therefore, adjusting to either 1-2-1 or 2-1-1 increases your chance to beat an R4.
So if anyone knows the formula, or can give approximations, I'd love to know, because it seems that an R4 team is not as unreasonable as everyone thinks. I plan on doing some research to try to get an idea of life gain given time left, and I will update you when I have some numbers.
PS: If something is wrong here, or if I left anything out, or anything is unclear, feel free to tell me/ask, I’m more than willing to explain further or make ammendments.
-Hunter
Um, what you posted looks real cool and interesting but damn yo, I got so confused half way through it. Good luck ont teh rest of your research. I hope any of the other guys like gunter, apoc, sabin, kcxj, cambell, etc… could put their 2 cents in on what u came up with. peace
SKJ
The higher hit point characters, based on ratio, will do more damage to the lower ratio/hit point characters.
But that depends on who you use and at what ratio u have them.
Ya i took that idea alot more simplistically and thought the same thing,that an r4,seeing as how it cankill the r1’s quickly could be pretty eavenly matched vs the remainding r2,but every match is not textbook as i wish,meaning that if i screw up and eat a sak-a combo IM still hurt reall bad,wheras if I land a level 3 shes dead,I have 0 bar and still two characters to fight,thus a small advantage to me but no other characters to mixup the game and make them reajust to styles.Even if R4 had way more health and damage I still think they would be at a dis advantage.I play p-groove and i thought,well if I ever get a parry with blanka and counter with a fierce thats like a powerfull combo,It;s true,but if you have a bad match theres no hope you loose.
About the life gain formula, it’s been added to the newest revision of my systems faq. I’ll have it online soon.
2/11/04:
One of the biggest problems Blanka has against Sagat is that he doesn’t have any anti-airs that can’t be airblocked outside of a super. Blanka does fine on the ground, but often will lose the match due to Sagat jumping over a limb and landing his lv2 combo.
Luckily for Blanka, it just so happens that at the range Sagat is most likely to jump from, Blanka’s low fierce works perfectly as an anti-air for some reason.
Once you successfully deter Sagat from jumping recklessly, you can concentrate on Blanka’s ground advantage over Sagat and outrange him.
As far as up close goes I have always used roundhouse, or ducking strong for AA with Blanka vs Sagat.
…
Against Sagat I use low fierce or (if he is too close) front/down fierce is a good anti air…timing is tricky. If this is not an AA just tell me so…but it seems to work pretty much every time for me.
Roundhouse is not bad…but I’m not sure of it on reaction…its good when you try to surprise him. I think it is calculate random to catch low jump.
buck how do i beat roll activate/roll super besides throwing them?
Block? :lol:
Buk…
About the cr FP antiair for Blanka. I often find that cr FP antiair can be beating by simply sj in at that range and doing j LK (or empty sjumping and making him whiff and going straight to cr LK). Usually I think Blanka has to get his cr FP out there at an early time, or else Sagat’s j RH might CH hit him. So usually SJ can offset this timing and also makes the Jumpin right on Blanka, so cr FP is not at its best range. Of course Blanka can always just slide the jump LK instead cr FPing. But still, I don’t think any thing really will completely deter Sagat from jumping since all he needs is to land one jumpin and he potentially has beaten Blanka (since the lvl2 cancel makes Blanka wind up near the corner alot of the time.