Campbell's Tip Of The Day

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
461

Good shit, Buk. For your next post, what about the stuff about abusing alpha counters that you said would make the other alpha-counter-baiting post make more sense?

Also, why is C-Sagat considered tied with A-Sak again? A-Sak kills most K and P groove characters easily, and has less problem matches (in both number and severity, it seems) than Sagat. Is it just Sagat’s huge damage potential that keeps him on even footing with A-Sak?

And whatever happened to Balrog countering Sagat? Sagat’s height gives Balrog lots of options; in particular, I remember careful s. fierces and RC dash punches from the right distance were trouble for Sagat…

462

I’ve tried to figure this out for a while now but I’m just wondering if in Buk’s infinte knowledge of the system, or anyone else’s for that matter, they can help me out with this.

With C-Ryu’s corner combo (j.HP, c.MK, qcfx2+MP lvl2, qcb+LK, qcbx2+LK lvl1) I can’t for the life of me work out how to get the level 1 super to juggle consistently. It’s REALLY embarrasing cause I ain’t a noob but I stuff it up sometimes. It makes me look ridiculous :(. If anyone knows when to exactly cancel the lvl2 or any other information as to help me out I’d be glad to hear it. I really no idea why sometimes it just doesn’t juggle.

463

better late than ever I suppose. -_-

2/9/04:

Cammy vs Sakura tip:

If the Sakura player isn’t experienced in this match it can be a real frustrating one. Even if Cammy is in P/K groove, it’s pretty tough for the Sakura player to get close enough to get her CC started.

What does Cammy do in this match up? The same thing she generally always does: jiggle around at about half-screen distance and roundhouse anything that moves. Sakura does a random RC roundhouse hurricane kick? Walk back and roundhouse as she’s coming down. Random dive kicks? Walk back and roundhouse to trade with the dive kick at any range. Sakura playing it safe and whiffing dive kicks to build meter? Roundhouse it.

As long as you keep Sakura out and refrain from taking any stupid risks, the dreaded CC usually won’t even be a factor in the match.

464

thanks!!

465

True, but IMO Balrog generally doesn’t counter Sagat because he can’t antiair him from far away for the most part (except Strong headbutt maybe? i dunno.) If Rog gets pushed to the corner somehow I don’t think there’s much he can do. Sagat j. rh from far away is too much.

466

I dont think Rog counters Sagat. Sure the RC dash punch adds alot to his game because of Sagats height, but from up close or in the corner Sagat can beast on him. RC dash punch from close to point blank can be thrown easily, which makes it real easy for Sagat to get him in the corner.

467

Can’t Balrog use his anti air dash punch (kick button) as a far away anti air against Sagat, seems to work to me.

468

ya i dont know the frame specifics so it makes sense now, i guess it was just strick timing…thanks…

oh and i posted this in another thread but IMO sak is only top tier against p/k grooves…im only taking consideration of p/k/a/c/n…and even in p/k groove IF (big IF) sak doesnt have meter and your parrying skills and jds are good its probably 50/50 depending what character you play. again this is just my opinion…

im outi

Roberth

469

in the srk footage here u can see combofiend vs calipower i think? 5 matches… he only wins once with balrog… but u can see balrog can soooo pressure him if he wants too… and if he gets in and has CC… well ye ggpo i guess…

470

well is was ratio 2 sagit vs balrog =\

471

Sakura gets free damage on them with her CC, but it’s not just her CC that makes her good. She has a good anti-air from close up (s.fierce/c.fierce) AND from far away (RC rh HK), a good long range poke (s.rh), a damaging BnB off of c.short that sets up crossup mixups with her dive kick, roll, AND j.forward, she has a good corner trap with her RC fireball, excellent air to air with j.strong… if you think she’s only top tier against P and K you’ve never seen a Sakura used to her fullest potential.

472

Yes strong head butt and light rc dash punch very hard to throw him out of that one if ur trying to zone rog in the corner

473

sakura is in a league of her own vs p/k,it’s basically 70-90% your probobly gonna loose,In those grooves i tend to stay in the air alot,maybe bait out a antiair cc,and jus eat it.If she somehow gets under you on a jump and tries to activate i usually try to parry first hit and shoryuken/dashback out,still 2/3 times i get hit by it.Ohh ya dont punish a far roll,unless your 100%%% sure you can throw her out don’t try, jus jump back

474

hey buk, i’ve got a question…

what does japan think is the most powerful team in each groove? i’d imagine a C-groove team with sagat, probably team BAS in A-groove, no clue on P, i’m guessing nobody really uses S, unsure on N, and something like K-geese/sagat/blanka?

475

whoever said Sakura sucks except against P/K… I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Sakura has one of the strongest up close games in all of CvS2. The only thing she doesn’t have (that would truly make her cheap) is a two frame crouching jab. A super fast dash like Ken’s wouldn’t hurt either. Maybe standing short that gives frame advantage like the shoto’s would be good too.

As for her strengths, being able to combo a knockdown off crouching short (which also does big damage AND doesn’t require meter) is huge. Un-techroll-able punch throw which seems to grab from ridiculous ranges at time is big too. She has the generic shoto 3 frame standing fierce AND 3 frame crouching fierce as a bonus. As for her light attacks, crouching jab yields +7(!) and crouching short gives +3. Up close, Sakura controls whether she wants you to move or not. She does crouching short, tick throw even better than the shoto’s do (shoto’s have +5 crouching short).

I’ll gladly play sakura up close against any character, any groove, anytime. Not many characters in the game are stronger at this range than Sakura is, regardless whether she has death CC or not.

476

no i have, and ive played against bas’ sak 2-3 times, and i play k groove, and i still didnt have a problem, i found it to be fairly even…unless of course bas doesnt use her to her full potential…

there is no RC fireball corner trap if i have roll and alpha counter or aphla roll, she has one good long range poke (imo that doesnt qualify for anything if you only got one), many characters have damaging bnb off c.whatever, many characters with better anti airs, rc hurricane kicks are hella easy to deal with if you have roll or alpha counter…

also if its not just her cc that makes her good she would be good in any groove that has roll but yet she is like 99% exclusively played in a groove…basically what im saying is she wouldnt do shit in any other groove, and if she is in any other groove, p groove and k groove dont have problems anymore…

and ill glady play any sak up close with kyo, geese, sagat, ken, cammy in k groove and you can play sak in c groove if think she is good in any groove, actually we can play for money if you want at next evo…(this part is not for gunter haha)…and ill gave your roll groove cause i think i would be stealing your money if you didnt have the ability to rc with sak…

im outi

Roberth

477

He doesn’t. He can only do the CC going to the left (he mashes it going to the right). When he lived with me, he would practice that thing every single day, and Buktooth could still do it better than him.

Bas’s Sakura is the weak point in his team. He even took her off the team for a while because he kept losing to Sagats and Blankas… or if he would win, it would be with very little life left. He depends on Bison and Blanka for his wins.

**

Of course there is. Traps have, BY DEFINITION, holes. Otherwise, they’d be a block infinite. That doesn’t make them bad. If you have to use alpha counter or alpha roll, then it’s just as good - you no longer have one full meter. That’s a mini-victory in and of itself.

**

When it is all-purpose, it qualifies for everything. It’s actually better because you don’t have to worry about which one to use. You use the one that works almost 100% of the time.

**

But they don’t set up as many mixups as hers does. Most c.short BnBs don’t even knockdown… and if they do, they don’t position the combo’er for an ambiguous crossup. And if they do, it’s only one KIND of crossup. Sakura has 3 different kinds of crossups to use.

**

Sakura’s s.fierce hits BEHIND HER HEAD. Not many one button anti-airs hit with as much horizontal range as hers. It’s similar to how her s.roundhouse is an all-purpose poke. If they are jumping at you, you press fierce. More times than not, it’s the correct anti-air. And RC Hurricane Kicks are best used as a far anti-air as I stated before. In that situation you can’t roll or alpha counter… because you are in the air. Ground to ground, you use it to go through moves. That is the reason it is being RC’d. If you just want to use it to pressure (and thereby be bait for an alpha counter), you don’t need to RC it. As with all moves you need to use it intelligently. You don’t do it all day long so that they know when to roll/AC it.

**

Untrue. To my knowledge, the only national tournament to date that enforced one team throughout (and thereby provides accurate data) was SBO. There were 6 A-Saks and 3 C-Saks. That’s 9 total, and only about 66.7% were A-Groove. She needs roll because of her AC, and at the time, N was losing popularity. That leaves A and C, and A is her better groove… but not by much. Her role changes in C (more of a battery than a user), but without meter, she is still a good character.

**

Basically what I’m saying is that you are wrong. DEAD wrong.

**

I won’t be going to Evolution anyway… but I’m sure I can find some people who would be willing to take you up on your offer to play for money.

478

ouch

dis! gunter rules

479

The way I see it, Sakura is like a tentacle monster. Being in A groove makes Sakura into a tentacle monster with a large penis. And P/K groove would be squealing Japanese schoolgirls.

480

of course i said its just IMO, maybe i know that match up too well BUT, i will try to respond to gunters post.

“Of course there is. Traps have, BY DEFINITION, holes. Otherwise, they’d be a block infinite. That doesn’t make them bad. If you have to use alpha counter or alpha roll, then it’s just as good - you no longer have one full meter. That’s a mini-victory in and of itself.”

yes there are holes, but if i have the option to roll i have more options to get out of the trap than k groove and pgroove, if i alpha counter it nocks you down and puts me in a better situation you have to deal with my wake up games, if i alpha roll your eating super or a bnb or its putting you in the corner or both since her moves take a while to recover since they do multiple hits, and c groove is not worried about have a level 3 as opposed to a level 2, on top of that sak now has to worry about my RCs

“When it is all-purpose, it qualifies for everything. It’s actually better because you don’t have to worry about which one to use. You use the one that works almost 100% of the time.”

IMO its actually better when you have multiple pokes to choose from that work high and low and different distances, perhaps its a preference…

“But they don’t set up as many mixups as hers does. Most c.short BnBs don’t even knockdown… and if they do, they don’t position the combo’er for an ambiguous crossup. And if they do, it’s only one KIND of crossup. Sakura has 3 different kinds of crossups to use.”

actually i was just thinking of ioris, kyos, and sagats bnbs all which puts them at the advantage maybe not as much as sak but its definately there, i fear wake up from the 3 i just listed then i do from sak…

“Untrue. To my knowledge, the only national tournament to date that enforced one team throughout (and thereby provides accurate data) was SBO. There were 6 A-Saks and 3 C-Saks. That’s 9 total, and only about 66.7% were A-Groove. She needs roll because of her AC, and at the time, N was losing popularity. That leaves A and C, and A is her better groove… but not by much. Her role changes in C (more of a battery than a user), but without meter, she is still a good character.”

i was referring to evo, i didnt see any sak used outside of a groove, except maybe 1 or 2 c groove saks…and a groove is her better groove my a lot IMO…

“Basically what I’m saying is that you are wrong. DEAD wrong.”

ok maybe i should have refrased it, she is not NEARLY as effective in anyother groove other than a…

“I won’t be going to Evolution anyway… but I’m sure I can find some people who would be willing to take you up on your offer to play for money.”

the challenge was mainly aimed at kcxj but whatever…

“That is the reason it is being RC’d. If you just want to use it to pressure (and thereby be bait for an alpha counter), you don’t need to RC it. As with all moves you need to use it intelligently. You don’t do it all day long so that they know when to roll/AC it.”

the only reason hurricane kick is effective is because it is RC, if someone didnt rc and tried to use it as pressure against me he would eat super or dp 80% of the time…

im outi

Roberth