Depends on how fast/slow the CA comes out and what attack was countered.
I Dont think you guys undestand what Bucktooth88 is saying?
If you U guys ever get your “counter attack” Baited you will be like… Wtf:wtf: just happened… :lol: :lol: :lol:
Say… like… “A bison” just missed his cc and he’s doing…Dp,fp,slide(guard break) cc.
So your blocking…looking at your guard bar… waiting tell the last second to counter attack.
A BISON has you in the corner now… your gaurd bar is like on “E”/empty… Now’s the time to counter attack…
You go press Foward+mp/mk… But your “AC” dosent come out!.. You end up wiffing mp/mk:eek:
Bison get his counter hit… and he paints Fence.:mad:
You Just got baited.:lol: :lol: :lol:
Bison new you were going to “AC” at the last second… so he just held back his guard break cc at the same moment you wanted to counter…
No D
Buk, what’s better in choosing characters? choosing characters you like or choosing characters who work for you? same thing for style of play, mastering what you like or what works for you?
I like what works for me =P I don’t see how you can like something that isn’t working.
I dont get how you can’t see something that works…jk!
hmmm, i dont think this situation is very practical at all, but I have been baited before to alpha counter. But I mean, I can see people waiting for their meter (ie if you are also a-groove and you are waiting until you get a level 1 so you can counter) but waiting until they are almost guard crushed? And for the most part i’ve only been baited trying to ac a jab… because if you try to ac a sagat c.fierce for example you get guard crushed usually… of course this is only the case where I am being heavily pressured and usually on my last guy who is close to c.fierce xx death… Waiting for your guard bar to be on empty before you counter attack is just taking unnecessary damage…
oh yea, and i know people will probably misread my first line because they wont read the quote… so, yea, im not saying baiting AC is not practical, im saying the situation nod described isnt…
I agree with both windyman, and Buktooth. It’s hard to miss a CA if you wait for the attack… But if you set it up well enough and they anticipate too much, they might take the bait and try it.
If they’re very low on guard damage (flashing), and getting up from knockdown, and you’ve been low fiercing the guard down all match with rolento, and you’re jumping in for crossup while they’re getting up, and you’ve got full meter, and he doesn’t have a DP, and he’s gonna get busted by your patriot circles ANYWAYS… there’s prolly a good chance he’s gonna try counter attack.
Windyman: K-Groove thread talks about JD recovery.
I would rather bait the counter attck and try to hit it though if I knew it was coming. Cancel into RC or super or special to avoid or something. Just for the stupid reason that it looks cool. I can never get it to work well tho. 
Yeah… I am not saying its practical. But I just wanted to give an example on the whole Baiting AC thing. It seemed like some guys did not get the concept. I am a C groover. So I usually allways have a level 1. So for somebody waiting for me to get a level 1 (to bait my AC) is “Impractical” for me thats all. I play against A goove all the time. I can remember many a match where I tried to AC but I ended up getting CC because they paused, or broke their rythem(stop, start,stop,start,stop,ect…) when I was trying to AC.
“Bucktooth88”… speaking AC,when is a good time to AC.
Apoc stated that most people dont know when to AC… they usually wait tell the last sec to AC. Which I heard is the wrong time to AC.:o I think he was talking about Alpha 3 though…
No D
I don’t think any AC’s will hit blocked jabs and shorts. They all recover before the AC comes out. I’m sure there are some exceptions, like maybe Dhalsim far jab or something but I don’t know. So you can bait lots of AC’s that way, by just jabbing and if you see the flash just block and if the AC is like an uppercut or whatever, you get a free combo.
You can JD and parry a few frames before you can block. Stupid random concept but yeah, your mind isn’t playing tricks on you.
Since Bison’s GC CC isn’t guaranteed to crush a full guard meter, many ppl don’t choose to AC their way out of it. IF however, they see that they ARE in fact going to get crushed by it, THEN they will AC out. It’s different with Sakura, who WILL GC you no matter what, unless you AC/counter roll out… so you’ll often see the “wait till they’re almost crushed to AC” situation against Bison.
Wouldn’t they just check their guard meter when he starts the CC and then decide if they’re gonna AC it? That would give a very large window to do it in, making trying to bait an AC useless. The whole idea of “baiting” whiffed moves through attempted ACs in general seems absurd to me, if I understand you guys right, and I think I do.
Hmm. I guess I got a little ahead of myself with the counters to Alpha Counters lesson. I’ll post up some tips on using and abusing Alpha Counters another day so that the previous tip will make more sense. I will say that my last tip had nothing to do with CCs though… For now I’ll just move on to something else.
1/28/04:
Most beginning Honda players don’t know what to do when they get crossed up, so they just RC fierce headbutt away to safety. What they don’t know is that Honda’s standing fierce is a near perfect anti-air for the area directly over his head. Beats pretty much everything clean, can be done very late and does a huge chunk of damage (1600 + counter hit). It also has a lot of vertical reach to hit high jumping cross ups like Blanka’s and Chun’s.
Another bonus is that when Honda tries to do his punch throw and gets his fierce it’s totally safe if blocked. If they try to jump away from the grab the fierce snags them out of the air for free, making for a nice option select situation.
Buk: how about ratio-ing ur team?
from ur previous posts it sounds pretty much like u’re gonna favor the ratio 2 slot to the ‘anchor’ but i just wanted to know ur opinion
Gunter, I wanted to aske a question about A-Kyo’s Dizzy CC,is there any version of that CC that dizzies characters who have higher stun than 60?
yo buk from your system guide…
“6 frames! That’s quite a long time. That’s theoretically long enough for you to
interrupt any attempt at a tick throw (non super/roll cancel) with a quick jab
or short, even beat them to the punch with a throw of your own while you’re
still in “can’t be thrown” mode. EVERY throw attempt can be pre-emptively
jumped out of.”
why is it sometimes i would have a move CLEARLY out like c.mp, and i get thrown out of this move completely, my moves wiffs the opponenets body completely is this because when he is throwing and has the throw coming out he has invincibility??? or theres no hit decection on my move or the frames for my move to be detected as a hit ran out? or whats the deal yO?
im outi
Roberth
**YES THAT SHIT HAPPENS TO ME MORE THAN IT SHOULD AND MAKES ME ** :mad:
I could be wrong but I think, the move hasn’t gotten to its active frames yet. Since the move might be a 4 frame move… like say, cr MP of most chars, the move is still at the 3rd or 4th frame when the throw starts executing. IMO thats what it might be.
As for the AC things that people talking about. I think Buk was talking about people expecting an attack will coming, and you purposely whiff to bait it out. Like say Cammy’s j LK crossup, into st FP, blah blah mixup. People with say Rolento may not want to deal with this, and feel that since his AC is nice and safe. They will try to AC the st FP, cuz the blockstun on the j LK is short so you might miss it. Well, if the Cammy player does j LK, into st LP whiff, the Rolento player may try to AC assuming the st FP is coming out, but it doesn’t. And they get the stupid Pogo stand, which then you punish with a upward super.
Plus another thing is, it important to AC moves early in the block stun, cuz if you do it too late, they may recover. I think most jabs and shorts recover in time. Cuz I know Sagat can’t AC another Sagat’s st Jab, which is pretty useful to know if another Sagat is about to guard crush you, mash on a reversal super or TU, not an AC since it can be blocked.
I think against rolento and other “safe” AC chars(where it doesn’t matter if it was blocked or not, they have the advantage), if you have a safe super char, like Ryu, Sagat, Akuma, Blanka, it is best to jab and do a super if you see an AC coming. Cuz Rolento can run for a shitload of time, if you end up blocking his AC, which is annoying.
hoho
…uh… lol… sorry for everyone that saw that…
I think I forgot to log out at my GF’s…
Some Questions
A few questions:
-
RCing moves your character a bit forward correct? So could balrog mix-up headbut’s to jump over corpses? I am trying this but I cant seem to get a steady mix-up game with rog like i can Morrigan/Iroi.
-
When Rog RC’s his headbut does that give him any extra invicibilty while he is in the air. (any way to take out wake up DP, or let it pass through). Im trying this, but once again my timing strength could be off (i can’t yet do jab RC’s).
-
Any advanced strats for counter movements?
Just do a faster move. Your c.mp is probably still coming out when your opponent grabs you. If you try to hit your opponent out of a tick throw attempt too late (or do a move that is too slow) then the throw will beat you to the punch.
1/29/04:
By request, some Balrog tricks.
After realizing that Balrog gets little love anywhere, I sat down and messed around in training mode for about 10 mins and came up with some cool stuff. Note that these are all more effective against fatter characters like Sagat and Blanka.
Here’s the flowchart:
I. Roundhouse throw
A. Walk back a tiny bit, roll. REALLY deceiving fake cross up. From there do c.jab x3 into super.
B. Charge straight down roll. Barely crosses up. Do c.jab, c.short, then fierce headbutt if the opponent didn’t block.
C. Walk back like a pixel, roll. This effectively randomizes which side you end up on. However, since you lost your down charge by walking back, just go right into a sweep. Safe if blocked. No time to charge for Lv3 twisty super though =(
D. Any cross up/non cross up roll. Wait a millisecond, roundhouse throw again.
II. c.jab, c.short, fierce headbutt
A. Dash, dash (cross up), wait a millisecond, roundhouse throw.
B. Dash, dash, c.jab.
1) wait, c.jab (if hits should be counter hit), link low strong into low rush.
2) roundhouse throw.
III. Point blank sweep
A. Walk back a bit, fake cross up roll. A little difficult to make the fake cross up convincing, but probably easy with practice (I only worked on this for like 10 minutes, heh).
B. Late roll (cross up), sweep/jab, short, fierce headbutt.
C. Any roll, wait a millisecond, roundhouse throw.
As you can see, the roundhouse throw sets up a ton of crap. The fake cross up into super combo is REALLY deceiving, and is probably Balrog’s best non-turtling method of landing his supers. Unfortunately, the mix ups to the fake cross up aren’t nearly as damaging, but they do set up other things if they hit… like another roundhouse throw.
A-Balrog can link his CC after a point blank sweep, which makes his mix ups all the more powerful since he doesn’t have to worry about charging.