lol chill Alioune. I’ll input my take on this, purely my opinion so take it as it is.
Its pretty difficult to rate characters as it is objectively, especially when we lose to an ‘easy/op character’. Realistically, we have to factor in ease of use vs winning games. Cammy must be played with superior skills to get in and open up your opponent. Yun can just simply EX lunge in with advantage. Rufus can gamble safely with his messiah kick. Yang can free pressure with rekkas etc.
Cammy vs Yun can be an even match up. However, if we assume both players have equal knowledge and skills, then yun has a slight advantage due to the properties of his moves.
I fully agree that some people tend to cover their limitations and blame the character for it. To me, only the real top players can feel the bad match ups. For the rest of us, it’s really more of a ‘personal bad match-ups’ if any. At my local arcade, I always scream GAY when I got beaten be this honda player. Then, my friend who uses Cammy just for fun, almost won losing only to a random ultra. I main Cammy… :oops: /facepalm
What you don’t understand is that tier lists (and matchups) are only meant for top players, not for casual players like you and me.
I understand from Alioune’s post that Cammy has no bad matchups like back in SSF4.
Do some damage in some majors and show us why Alioune. All the other top characters get highly represented in high level action and I’m tired of the potential talk. Let’s see it.
IMO opinion both alioune and vryu have shown what a lot of hard work and polish can do for a character. The problem with the omg dey no win major!!! NOT TOP TIER argument is less players use those characters at that level. Air beat 2 cammys at scr? Were they anybody? I’m sure he beat a lot of other characters too. Cody/cammy/makoto and any other character (except the complete bottom of the barrel) can win a tourny. The problem is nobody puts time into it. And yes I agree with alioune/daigo or anyone else who says it, cammy is one of the best characters in 4.
Then the question becomes, why is nobody worthwhile(besides the ones that don’t go to tournaments) putting time in?
Why put in 80 hours learning cammy when you could do have the time with Rufus or fei and still have the same effect. Daigo said it best in an interview in Kuwait. He’s looking to win (more so since he’s sponsored). Simple answer is simple characters over technical. There’s one exception to that and you still don’t see a lot of her. Take some thought into it next time so u don’t ask such a pointless question. And I believe if alioune wanted to he could easily take any tourny in Europe. Why don’t you go to a major and rep her yourself?
By your logic Yang was not a viable tournament char in the US? but is magicaly in Europe or Japan,same with Cammy in ssf4 or even vanilla Sagat? I’ll do my best with the upcoming tournies in 2012 but winning a tournament with Cammy will not prove Cammy is top tier or not.(cf Iyo in vanilla). If u are tired of the potential talk maybe u should put the work instead to make the char work for you.
I wrote a big thing out but I dunno. I eagerly await to see what people do with her in this version.
Seems like this Daigo stuff was a mistranslation from what I saw here, not sure if its true or not:
gamefaqs.com/boards/626633-super-street-fighter-iv-arcade-edition/61489934?page=3
According to this what he said is that Ryu, Akuma and Cammy are his favorite characters in 2012 and would main one of those but wasn’t sure which one.
Not that I think she’s not really strong, she’s easily top 10 and maybe top 5, but to say she’s for sure 1 of the 3 best in the game she HAS to appear more in tournaments and do something, if not then it’s just all theory stuff, everyone is tired to know what she can do, her very damaging combos, her crazy okizeme game, unblockables and whatever, if that doesn’t work in tourneys even for very skilled players then it doesn’t matter, Rufus will still be the dive kick character doing well out there with his ‘going crazy’ gameplay and one combo all day.
Cammy is not a very popular character because she requires a lot of effort to play.
I don’t agree binding tier list with tournaments though. Not many people have the chance to join major tourneys to make an impact. Whenever there’s a major tourneys going on, its usually that same bunch of players making it to top 10. Naturally, we’ll see just that few characters.
We don’t see codys at the top until momochi came along. Same for poongko and seth, sako and cammy, marn and dudley etc
Ryu was deemed mid tier only in Super and Daigo won EVO with it.
Well, I tried looking at it from both characters’ tools on paper, as well as from results of early AE 2012 play at the mid level. Now there’s more evidence of this matchup being advantage Ryu from the very highest level of play: top player Daigo vs Rai, the #1 ranked Cammy in Japan.
Daigo (Ryu) 12 - 3 –Rai- (Cammy)
At all levels there are strong indications that Ryu is a bad matchup for Cammy. Not a great look since Ryu will most likely be a commonly played character in tourneys in 2012.
I’m sorry but there’s no way -Rai- is on Daigo’s level, that would be similar to using Air vs those SCR Cammys as an example… **Banbaban **will probably overtake him in points before Feb anyway… someone like him once he learns his matchups or Kindevu’s Cammy if he mains her (and he considers Cammy Top 4 in this game) would be a better guide.
You can’t get a good read on highest level play if the best people using certain characters aren’t as good as the highest level. It’s kinda like who you can’t use MOV’s Ken as a guide (and even than he still bodies Mago’s Fei in tourneys) since Momochi’s is much better… but Momochi doesn’t play Ken seriously anymore.
Ryu matchup in super and ae was 6.5/3.5 for cammy.
2012 still feels in cammys favor so far. Like cammy can dominate and shut down ryu. 2 wrong guesses and it’s an almost guaranteed round win.
By the way there are some vids of decent/good cammy beating air in a set. Recent matches.
Well, Rai beat Kazunoko’s Seth 7 - 1, then later he lost to Kazunoko kinda bad too, but just to beat his Seth like that one time he must be pretty good since no one besides Daigo is doing well against Kazunoko. From what I saw, Banbaban is not THAT good with Cammy, and I really doubt Kindevu would beat Daigo’s Ryu in a long set using Cammy, even Sako had a hard time against his Ryu when Cammy had her crazy cs, he won 10-9, but he had the best Cammy of all time in her best incarnation, and I think Ryu is better in 2012 than in Super, even with no escape tatsu.
edit: lol 6.5/3.5 in AE, funny, funny. What was Ryu/Yun matchup then, 9/1?
Yes, ae ryu was the worst version. Matchup did not change much from super. Big damage and stun combos are similar to NOW. 50/50 setups where still present but different like After hk sa, hk strike and ex strike would still cross up. Mk strike is fake… All are safe and force whiff dps… Etc…
His crmk was garbage. Ryu can’t throw fireballs freely when she has meter or u1.
Ryu had still to make a horrible guessing game on his wakeup in ae. This fact didn’t change.
AE Cammy was her worst version too, but that doesn’t matter, the matchup is just not like that, she never raped Ryu as she does with Dhalsim and some others, not even in super when she was godly for real, so the numbers can’t be even close to a 7/3, even to say it’s in her favor you could already be wrong, if you said 6/4 I wouldn’t laugh though(even if I think it isn’t), just don’t go over the limits.
His cr.MK wasn’t garbage, it was still better than any of her pokes if you really compare, still going under a lot of stuff, very good range, just cause he had a hurtbox extended doesn’t make it bad. Her 50/50s wasn’t as good as in all other versions, she had some unblockable ex strike because of the shit position you had after HK spiral but the dude could just not quick stand and you would waste a bar cause you had to do it very fast, so it was hard to see if they did quick stand or not. And it’s way easier to zone and antiair Cammy after Super since her cs has to be done so high, it’s something that helps Ryu in this match.
But sure it doesn’t help if you see Alioune beating some poor Ryu’s ass and then he comes here saying she’s like his worst matchup, it’s pretty obvious that this is a wrong statement, but some people will believe because he’s a great player.
And I still look forward to Alioune saying she has no bad matchups in 2012 too, just like in super, she’s like AE Yun, even vanilla Sagat had a bad match agains’t Akuma, but she has none. =)
edit: oh yeah, and pretty much everyone has to make a horrible guessing on wakeup against Cammy, it’s what she does, real problem is how easy is to put them on that situation.
“Rai is japanese therefore he is the highest level of play”, him losing to Daigo means Ryu is a bad matchup, scores are dictated by matchups and being japanese, over 1 random set without any type of footage, anyways yeah Cammy is bad .
Lol at frauds talking about match ups when in ae almost no one combo’d into hk sa x2. And most jumped ship in ae and screamed cammy shit tier when all the Japanese (ur gods) ranked her high in the tier list.
Lol at “high ranked” #1 ranked cammy. Doesn’t mean anything. Odin jumping sin was ranked high and i thought he was shit. -6 had good footsies and anti air but only used 1 failed combo.
Ever seen someone named Nike(insert random digits) matches? He’s pretty high ranked on xbl. But IMO he’s cammy is garbage.
In ae NO ONE explored cammys potential or how strong she was. Not even the Japanese. She was overshadowed by team china (easy mode).
Di,
lol to bad you weren’t in japan in ae times to show them how to play cammy with your far hp links =/
and well, to be a fraud i would actually have to be known by someone, i don’t even live in your country, so you wouldn’t know. =)
but doesn’t matter, just for what you say here it’s easy to see you don’t understand that much of the game, I won’t ever forget, cammy vs ryu in ae is 6.5/3.5, like pretty much the same rating as cammy vs dhalsim, dhalsim or fei vs ryu, yeah, you really know what you’re talking about, right?