Sagat is similar to this. Take a look at how much guard meter is lost if a raged sagat does low fwd -> jab uppercut. Any sagat player knows its not too hard to get the opponent to block a couple fierces or low jump roundhouses. It only takes 3 blocked fierce attacks and sagat’s low fwd- jab upper is a guard crush. You gotta be aware of when it is a good idea to use a blocked high recovery move knowing that it will crush them.
Whenever the opponent’s guard meter is flashing and I knocked them down, I stand over them for a second with Sagat, block low briefly, then close s.HP xx dp+LP them for the guard break, close s.HP xx super. <---- one of the biggest things I learned from watching John Choi play.
Now that you mention that I’m actually using a “high recovery move”, you reminded me of how my friend Juan uses Geese d.HK canceled into nothing whenever he realizes the guard meter is just about to break too. The Geese d.HK recovery sucks so you always want to cancel into Reppuken right? Well not when you use it like this…
Geese d.HK, (guard break), d.MK xx super.
Awesome stuff. :tup:
you guys fail at staying on topic =P I come back after a week and see this thread extend 2 pages about geese =P
I would never put K-cammy R2, for obvious reasons
but I would put K-geese R2 if I actually used him, I think that says a lot about geese over cammy
cross up mk on blanka c hp and countering direct lightnings after repukens can not be used in geese’s argument, because, as mentioned, that’s gotta be a special ed blanka, in which case, even Dan would have the upper hand
geese vs cammy is also an invalid argument for who’s better, cuz that’s one matchup, and geese doesn’t have a terribly hard time with cammy anyways
I’ll admit that K-cammy is probably better than K-blanka overall, but only because of her use as a R1, R2 K-blanka can hold his own, K-cammy can not, which I think was the decision of the original poster, I can’t remember anymore
bah, I’m going back to class
I’d still say to take k-blanka over k-cammy, just for the versatility bonus, k-cammy is friggin 0 dimensional
and, you know, that would make a-blanka leaps and bounds better than k-cammy in the long run, if only for the fact that there are a good number of ways to keep k-cammy under control, but no consistent way to stop a-blanka
people over-emphasize health differences too much
cammy has 1200 less health than blanka. that’s just one fierce. it’s not that big of a deal people
seriously…especially with rage, it becomes like none. k cammy is a very good r2.
i’d take k-cammy as an anchor OVER blanka and geese ANY day.
k blanka is r1, k cammy is r1 or r2, straight up. k blanka is not as good an r2.
It’s one matchup out of how many top tiers/commonly played characters?
We’ve also been discussing Geese vs Vega/Blanka, more or less and Cammy.
I forget why we’re suddenly lovin Geese on this thread but that’s three often played characters right there. Can we get a few more?
So far as K-Cammy R2 goes, these days that’s just asking for a loss. Not because she sucks, but the matchup’s she’ll be facing there will more often than not have a stronger game than hers, even with rage.
The whole life thing is often taken for granted. It shouldn’t be, while it’s expected say against an R4 that he’ll bust up your first two R1’s and your last R2 should take him, your First R1 will likely beat that R4 if the matchup’s in his favor.
Well, before I jump on Geese vs. Sagat, I want to mention one last thing with Geese vs. Blanka.
I usually like to small jump and jump in with short rather than forward. I like to think of it as Cammy’s short except at a deeper angle. It beats alot of crap that Blanka can throw out randomly. Jump-in forward should beat Blanka’s st. RH though.
Now, with Geese vs. Sagat, I feel that Geese has a hard time vs Sagat’s fierce altogether. He can’t crouch it, it beats alot of stuff that he has, if Sagat does far fierce at the right range, Geese cant’ sweep it but can still get hit.
On the flipside though, Geese might as well do the same thing for the same reasons except range. I don’t know too much about this matchup. But IMO, it doesn’t look good for Geese.
why are u ppl saying k cammy r2 isnt good…i dont understand? best k groove in america uses r2 k cammy
Who’s the best K-groover in america? I’ve never heard of such a person, just a bunch of upper-mid tier K groovers.
leezy imo.
How is that suppose to work? So does that mean A-houh is good since Justin made top 8 at evo with him?
Shes a decent R2 and a better R1 character.
A-haoh is good:wgrin:
I never said she wasn’t good. If I want to clear an arcade of scrubs I’ll sit down and play K Cammy R2 as my first. Thing is she’s like your basic lvl K-Scrub character that everyone seems to play similar-like, from scrubs, intermediates to top players… The difference is probably the stronger handle on footsies, as well as a more intuitive understanding of the matchups.
On the other hand, she’s such a…Linear character.
Exceptionally strong horizontal control. Force her to relinquish control and where is she?
Her utility has surely dropped. It’s been a while since I’ve seen with my own eyes an A-Cammy, though I’d imagine P is still out there. K will always be.
I got some catching up to do. I know Geese’ far s.HP is virtually identical to Sagats, range wise, frame data, etc. Except his hitbox according to Halcyonryu’s wiki is even more vulnerable below since he’s stepping forward.
So far as I know Geese doesn’t have normals that can tackle Sagat’s s.LK.
I know his 70 stun combos posted a whiles back were meant for Sagat:rofl:
I don’t really do stuff here at work, Base is closing down. I’ll brush up and check my notes tomorrow and post.
Think this thread will be closed soon anyway:sweat:
Sagat’s not easy. Mainly because at mid range every form of offense that you can start up requires a small mistake from him to get started. Up close your games are pretty much equal with Geese having a slight advantage due to his more damaging combos, but at mid range Sagat is still top tier whereas midrange/longrange Geese has no move that you can really challenge Sagat with. Just like all of the top tier matchups except Cammy, Geese has to be Brass Balls Geese to win. Use his fierces against him whenever you can and once you get him to hesitate on fiercing you in the grill you have to just make an angry geese face and run right at him and make him block a low jab and put yourself in your sweet spot.
You really dont have much of an answer to stand short either but that doesnt hurt and a little known fact about sagat’s short is it actually leaves him at -1 on hit or block so if you can actually run into it so that after the hit you are in your attack range, you can counterhit anything he does after with the proper timing. If you JD stand short it is even possible, although difficult, to get a free jab, the move is alot laggier than it looks. The reason people think Sagat has frame advantage after it is because it usually pushes the opponent back into the range where sagat’s fierces or 2nd short will stuff whatever you do anyway. Your own fierce will trade with his short too pretty often if you are in your fierce range. If he really just spams the short kick then remember that if you can take the hit from it up close you get frame advantage, if you can JD it then you get huge advantage, and your own fierce can trade with it if you can get it out there in time. Also if sagat has no super, dont be afraid to mid counter from time to time just to keep him thinking. Risk/reward isnt so bad if he doesnt have meter, youll probably eat a fierce if you miss but if you hit youll do the damage of a fierce and put him on the floor next to you. Brass Balls ftw.
By use his fierce against him I mean you just have to be strong on the ground and a strong JDer. If you JD stand forward or fierce then thats free sweep every time or low fwd -> super if you are in range, if you JD a low fierce or a low jump roundhouse then you can get frame advantage even though you get no free hits. Be aware that although it requires nuts of steel you can run directly through his standing fierce and get a free combo. If you can get him to stop using stand fierce recklessly then its a pretty fair fight, low fierce isnt so bad cause you can punish whiffed ones alot easier with your fierce or sweep and low fierce isnt that long of a range compared to your attacks, and up close sagat can die to geese just like anyone else.
Only other things are never ever hang out at the range where a jump roundhouse will hit you with the tip, move up closer so that if he jumps you can actually antiair him. At tip of his foot range you have no antiair except a balls out high counter which you will find yourself getting supered for doing half the time.
If you arent K groove Geese then um I dunno what to tell you haha. Being able to JD and punish the stand fierce and being able to quickly run up when I get a chance is just way too important in how I play this match. If I couldnt do that I guess I would have to throw alot of RC fireballs which is basically asking Sagat to do a combo on you. Or random activate. Or mid counter alot more than I like to do. This match gets alot harder without the just defend. I’d say it’s 6-4 sagat if you are K groove Geese but any other Geese is 7-3 or worse.
Awesome insight again. I never thought about just NOT hanging out in the range where Sagat can kick me with the tip of his j.HK in the first place. Don’t try to fight it, but play around it instead. I saved your posts onto my computer. :tup:
Teach me the right way to anti-air with Geese a little more? My d.HP beats Vega’s jump-ins every time supposedly. I don’t think I do it right, or Vega is mixing up the timing with when he presses his jump attack or something though. One of my friends keeps telling me that I need to hit the d.HP as late as possible. That is the right way to do it right?
I read the wiki where you talked about the difference in the horizontal and vertical ranges on Geese’s air-to-air attacks. What are some common character specific situations I want to use j.MP or j.HK in the first place? (Obviously not against the Sagat max range j.HK)
Pretty much I use the jump roundhouse if I am air to airing someone from pretty far away, and the jump strong if they are going to be close to me or above me.
I dont hit the fierce late, I hit it really early so they land on the point of it and I dont usually have too many problems as long as they are at the right angle. Basically you wanna use the low fierce if they are right above you, if they are out in front of you a little then itll lose out sometimes. If they are not in the right place to use low fierce then you should try low jump strong maybe, although I’ll admit I rarely try that on Vega cause I am not that fast. I generally just low fierce Vega and I havent had many problems. I usually try to stick to vega like flypaper so he is usually the one sweating to antiair me rather than the other way around though.
I added a bunch of stuff to that wiki. It’s kinda helping me out some to write things down so I’m gonna do it there. Sometimes it helps me think of things in matches if I’ve written them down somewhere.
I don’t know how you guys are choosing R2s, but when I’m picking an R2, the first thing I ask myself is: can this character take sagat
yeah, so, ok, cammy has better matchups against a bunch of common R1s, which is why, you know, she’s top tier as R1
of K-Blanka Geese and Cammy, cammy has by far the hardest time against sagat, I don’t know the specifics of the matchup (I don’t use either char), but I’ve come to understand that non-P cammy gets scrubbed for free by low tiger shots, I don’t know how exactly that matchup works, but that’s what I’ve heard
while all 3 of them are at a disadvantage vs sagat, blanka is only at maybe 4-6, and geese…well, I’ve personally never played K-geese on a sagat (I played C-Geese when I used him), but halcy seems to have proven that geese does stand a fighting chance vs sagat
all this I’m saying is based on that 90% of the cvs2 demographic uses R2 Sagat, as that’s how I remembered it a year ago back when i still played, if R2 sagats no longer make up over half the demographic, then I’ll accept a R2 K-cammy (or if someone had found a solution to her low tiger shot and I just happened to miss it…), until then, putting her at R2 is just suicide
1 hard is a lot of damage, health isn’t a huge problem, but it shouldn’t be ignored, if you think about it, for most characters, 11-12 hards is KO, so that 1 less hard is almost 10% less health, I dunno about you guys, but 10% sounds pretty significant to me, just not overwhelming
oh yeah, and who can possibly not love geese after they realize his ground medium punches consists of smacking himself, groping the other char’s boobs/man boobs/nuts (if their name happens to be sagat), and karate chopping their toe =P
to make it clear, yes I agree K-cammy is better than both K-geese and blanka without taking ratios and reality into account, but since the original poster was asking for who to put R2, I would not want to mislead him into putting cammy R2, as that would be by far the worst possible choice of the 3 (can you say, instant at least 80% lose rate?)
What’s the second?
I really don’t ask myself “can this character take Sagat,” I assemble a team and ask it, “can you three take on other teams?”