Does s.hp stuff some of Vega’s pokes?
Yeah I feel this way sometimes also, but with Cammy you really have to say fuck it and just go in hard with dashes straight into a button like st mp. If they block the mp I’ll throw out a st lp and or st lk to see if they hit a button. If not I can usually walk in at that point. It may just be the rank of people I’m playing but they usually get nervous once I get close and don’t want to get caught by a st mp. If they are hitting buttons at close ranges that’s when I’m usually dominating. It’s when they don’t that I have a problem as throws just kill your pressure and it usually takes two throws before they start to tech just giving them more chances to catch you messing up. Birdie’s a perfect example. You always get that fat fuck in the corner and have to grab his ass because you can’t jump on him with the cr mp of his. If you mistime his wake up or your frame traps once it’s like an easy 50% damage combo for him on you, but you have to set him up to tech, put in the work, guess right 5-6 times to take out that tubby bitch.
It might counter some stuff based on timing like his whiffed f+hp (good luck hitting his st mp with claw though), but honestly you shouldn’t be trying to play the poking game with Vega as that’s where he wants you to be. He has better walk speed and his poke range is better. He is the master of whiff punishing pokes in this game . If you want to beat Vega go in on him with dashes or a fairly safe jump if you can manage it. He has no invincible AA reversal, so you can cross him up for free basically. Once he is in the corner all he can do is v-reversal if you keep the pressure on. For example once he is in the corner on wake up walk forward and hit st lp, st mp, st lp frame trap followed by st hp XX CS on counter hit to catch him mashing his fastest move st lk or st lp (if he doesn’t have claw), if you keep holding forward while pressing the last lp it will even catch jump outs but it’s iffy. If he tries to jump out you can even walk back a little and catch him with b+mp or critical art as it catches cross overs. If he does cross you over just hit grab to throw him back in.
What’s the best poke to use against Sim? I played over 20 matches yesterday vs SimSim, but I couldn’t figure out what pokes to use (couldn’t afford it, lol). I always had to do everything I could to get in his face.
I just tested, Karin’s st.MK is actually slightly longer range than Cammy’s. It is also 2 frames faster and the hurtbox retracts more quickly (even though it has longer recovery). In training mode, even when I knew the exact time Karin’s MK would come out I couldn’t whiff punish it with Cammy’s st.MK, it would either trade or whiff. I wouldn’t get in a footsie war against her in that range, I’d either stay slightly back and counterpoke with st.HP or get closer in like you said.
First, I really appreciate that you took the time to pretty much address all my concerns about her and what was frustrating me so much. I’ll practice more in the lab with her and also with Ken…they are my 2 favorite characters in the SF franchise (add in Makoto as my 3rd…I really hope she becomes DLC), and I’ll be learning both of them.
I still have problems dealing with Rashid and Vega though. Necalli is just a beast and seems to out-poke me every time, LOL.
With Vega, my problem is getting in on him. His reach is so long and he seems to be able to AA anything I do.
Rashid just pisses me off. Maybe I’m not reacting fast enough to his Eagle Strike… I have no problem waiting him out and gaining ground by avoiding projectiles, but every time I bait that move, I can’t seem to dash in and punish in time. What am I doing wrong? It’s gotten to the point where, anytime I see that I’m fighting a Rashid player, I land one move or one chip to avoid a perfect, then I just get up and go take a piss or cook dinner or change my son…anything that would be time better spent than fighting against Rashid.
Apologies if this has been asked already, but how are you guys dealing with Necalli?
I try to keep Necalli out as long as possible, but if he does eventually get in i like to use V-Reversal, on his stomps. Also, you should AA almost exclusively with DP against him, as his Divekick can screw up the timing on you normal AA’s. Another important thing you should do is get in the habit of using V-Reversal to reduce your stun in an emergency.
Once you show them you can AA they typically will do one of the following:
- Go fullscreen and try to tag you with V-Skill
- Go slightly less than fullscreen and try to get in using that unsafe slash attack (the charge move)
- Dash up grab (especially common in V-Trigger)
- Actually attempt to play footsies and fish for CC with st.hk or st.hp.
Keeping him out is obviously easier said, but if you can keep him at bay for most of the match and then finally eek out the KO when he gets V-Trigger stocked you’ll be fine. Since his V-Trigger is 3 bars he will most likely be one decent combo from death, at which point he’ll try to go apeshit to finish you off.
Also, having a DP is great against him because the second he hesitates or stops his pressure in fear of a DP he loses his greatest advantage. Make him respect your DP.
TLDR: Keep him out, AA that ass, V-Reversal is your friend, make him respect your DP.
Edit: The especially ballsy, after seeing you can react to/beat his dash up grab BS Necalli’s will dash up and actually DP you. It’s rare, but just be aware it’s a possibility.
Edit2: After some testing, here is some data
Lk stomp (If he cancels from cr.mk or any light it IS NOT a blockstring.)
- Reversal st.lp xx DP (138/250, Heavy Arrow does 120/205)
- CA (330/0, for some reason I couldn’t get the dummy to hit this quick enough on block but when I was initially testing you could punish with this.)
- V-Reversal (60[White Dmg]/0)
- Anything else is either too slow or doesn’t reach.
Mk/HK stomps are safe, can only be punished with V-Reversal on block.
All slashes are really unsafe if blocked deep, but are relatively safe if they hit you with the very tip due to pushback. If they hit you with the very tip I’ve only been able to punish with CA.
http://sfv.fightinggame.community/
Click on “character matchups”.
We can’t take too much from it at this point but it should be pretty obvious Cammy has some less than average win rates. In fact, she’s only got positive win rates against 4 characters (Karin, Ken, Laura, Mika) and neutral against one (Ryu) as of today.
I don’t think she’s a good character but not nearly that bad. I’m taking this as “she’s not beginner level” but it may or may not ruin the whole “Cammy is the best character for new players!” kind of talk.
Against Necalli you want to stay away and force him to make a mistake. His slash is fully punishable on block and you can jump in on his V-skill if he gets repetitive with that from a distance. On wake up try to bait the dp with walk up shimmys or cross overs. You will need to use meatys on him on wake up a few times as he will most likely be mashing that jab. Once you catch him a few times he will DP so just walk up then walk back quickly. His upclose game imo is better than yours as his jab is seriously the best in the game and he has an overhead and command grab. The Vhozon’s news that his mk cancel into stomp is not a true blocksting is new to me but if that is true Necalli is going to have a harder time now as that is his pressure when you are blocking. If we blow that up he really will have no way to get in now.
Against Vega you rush him down. He has no invincible reversal so he can’t handle pressure well. Jumping in on him is not a good idea unless it’s a cross over. The best thing to do is walk forward and block his poke, repeat until he is in the corner. Sometimes he will wall dive out but you can AA it and push him back some more. Once he is in the corner you can basically go ham on him. After his roll I usually hit st. lp to stop any follow up as they tend to try to hit the tip making it safer. The thing you do not want to do is play footsies with him like you can with other characters. Stay out and try to AA or go in hard with dashes.
I haven’t played many Rashids yet but I seem to be able to sweep every single one of his eagle strikes after block and apply pressure after. V skill goes through his fireball and catches him pretty clean. I think the hard thing is he seems to be able to move across the screen so fast, but once you catch him he doesn’t seem to be able to do anything.
Against Karin has anyone discovered a consistent punish for her double kick special. I know it’s negative on block, but I’m running into an issue if they mix it up between the lk or mk version. The lk version allows you to punish with a nice cr mp - CS, but if they use the mk version the cr mp whiffs and you eat the overhead, so I switched it to b+mp TC, but if they use the mk version it just knocks them out of the air and you get denied a punish. You can punish the mk version with a st hp after the last hit overhead, but you really have to punish after the two kicks as there is no way to tell the difference between the two that I know of (not sure why capcom didn’t at least have a different audio cue here). The only consistent punish I can find is mk CS, but if you mistime it you are fucked. If anyone knows of a more consistent punish for her kicks special please let me know.
That’s cool you can actually knock him out after the cr mk. This goes for all versions but lk is much harder to time as it’s faster I guess that’s the trade off for it being safe on block I’m assuming. So mk and hk you want to hit him out before it comes out with like a jab or anything 3 frames or faster, and if it’s the lk version you’ll probably want to block and then punish unless they are doing it from a distance in which case the jab doesn’t work where the hk CS would have after the cr. mk. Honestly I tried it against a gold Necalli and failed 3 times so it’s definitely not the easiest punish, but nice to know it’s not really a block string like I’ve seen it being used in matches.
I want to get this down before I go to sleep. The Karin match up seems to be mainly in the neutral and comes down to who has better hit confirms. No one really wants to throw out a unsafe special because if you do you are most likely to get punished making this a fairly lame game. Our st mk is good against her for the most part as it beats all of her safe pokes (note if you catch them with st mk you can v trigger into CA, you will need to use this a lot in this match trust me) but loses to cr hk. The thing is they are a little scared to throw that out because it’s unsafe on block so you have to be smart about the st mk, try to bait the cr hk and punish with SA or CS due to distance. In the mid to point blank range they tend to dominant with their normals (namely cr. mk) so you want to get in close (point blank) or stay out for pokes/anti airs. Once you get up close, usually after a knockdown, they know to turtle as your normals and hers are about the same start up and we are mainly frame trapping up close so they will be waiting for that or a grab in almost all cases (note for this reason you will see a lot of Karins neutral jump on non meaty wake ups to avoid pressure/grabs, especially after you just grabbed as we lose our pressure after a grab unless in a corner and they don’t want to jump back to lose ground). Be wary of this as it’s pretty fast and I’ve been caught by some neutral jump kicks into super combos that hurt. In hindsight I should just be using b+mp to catch their fall, but I need to train that reaction a bit more (note b+mp anti air works wonders in this match up for catching her quick jump ins). Also a dash up after a grab and then lk CS will catch them if they neutral jump. From up close I’m liking the cr. mp to cr. lp counter hit st hp to start to see if they are hitting a button otherwise fishing for a cr. mp, cr. mp x special hit confirm is usually the safest and easiest option. Of course the basic cr lp to grab or cr lk to grab work here as well to condition them to tech. Once conditioned to tech you can switch to cr lp b+mp which seems to hit them out of techs really well if they’ve been teching after cr lp. Quite honestly I think b+mp is our best tool against Karin. That 4 frame start up beats a lot of her stuff because of priority over lights and the faster start up over her mediums/grab. I also find it effective in punishing her special kicks after block and her overhead hands after block with b+mp TC if they are dumb enough to throw one out. The downside is the range, but if she is close try throwing that out. I was surprised when I caught her a few times with it and just went into TC special CA. Once we get her in the corner we can really start to dominant her . This is where the rush down panic seems to set in and you can usually get a jump in on them if you just keep the pressure on. I had a higher level Karin who did nothing but v-reversal as soon as I got her near a corner so I know they are fearing it because they can’t escape the pressure. The catch is they can also dominant you in the corner so definitely be using your v-reversal if she gets you there. I’ll be honest I haven’t been using it as much as I should when cornered. I’d avoid using your v-skill against her. Any decent Karin is going to hit you out of it just like the hooligan, but go ahead and try it once to test if you want. Good luck on the Karin matches.
EDIT: I also wanted to add if you are having trouble with Karin. Play her in training against the CPU at level 6 to 8 to figure out the neutral game. It will punish you every time you make a mistake with mk. It also loves to do a lot of her punishable specials so it helps you learn the timing on how to punish those. If you can deal with the CPU on 8, Karin’s become a lot easier to deal with in matches as they don’t have the reads/reactions the CPU does.
Now if I can just figure out how to deal with birdie without taking ridiculous amounts of damage. I swear if they get one random bull horn to CA, grab or cross up you’re so screwed. The damage and your life just don’t mix well in this match up. I’ve lost to more random Birdies then I like to admit. I’ve had the most success just walking right up to them and mashing st lp catching every button press, jump, special they try to hit, then after they finally realize they can’t hit a button I go in for grabs in the corner. If I try to do a jump in I always get caught by cr. mp and if you mistime a meaty or something its so easy for them to win with that damage. I swear it’s two wrong guesses and you lose against them. I honestly think that is Cammy’s worst match up.
The annoying thing about stomps is the pushback on block. It’s just far enough that a lot of Cammy’s shit will whiff if he he just blocks after it. Supposedly his stomps are projectiles, so we possibly may be able to do something with that.
What are you guys doing against FANG?
So, what’s the best way to win against Ryu?
I played against MDZ_Jimmy and Cammy doesn’t seem to have problems in this MU.
My impatience after round 2 however… well it killed me.
He is by far the best Ryu I know.
You play basicly the groundgame and stay ready with your fireball counters, I’m currently also testing if we can punish blockstrings into hadoken.
Parrys are hard reads and only work if you do obivous stuff.
M Hooligan is a viable fireball counter, just use the grab.It goes over fireballs is pretty fast and the throwrange is good.
Cammy basicly beats Ryu in the footsies game and she has good ways to stop him from throwing fireballs.
Like Mike Ross said, Patience Gootecks,Patience!
Well for starters blow that ass up for tossing too many Hados when you have meter, especially V-Trigger. It may actually be to your benefit to let him toss them out early on to condition them so you can blow them up for it in the clutch. Make sure you don’t get too crazy with V-Skill though. Any half-way decent Ryu will parry or DP that shit on reaction. Speaking of half-decent Ryu’s, they will stop throwing fireballs when you’re stocked, so if this is the case you can start to bully him with your superior buttons and walkspeed.
For ranges, you want to either be out fartheir away (especially if you have meter) or close-midrange (~cr.mk range). There is a funny range in the middle where he can toss a fireball and you can’t punish it without a read and you pokes won’t reach him. He can also counter-poke you at about this range iirc. You can do the same of course, but you want to be just a bit closer.
Be ready with LK DP or b.mp for the inevitable cross-up jump in.
Don’t be afraid to just block against him too. If he gets in and starts to pressure you with st.mp, just block until he pushes himself out or goes for a throw attempt. If he pushes himself out you have the range advantage, and the throw attempts can be pretty telegraphed. But if you’re gonna eat something eat the throw. Ryu his like a freight train.
Don’t jump in, you probably won’t make it unless you have your extra strength prescription reading glasses on. If they like to parry jump ins for some reason you can start empty jumping and blow that boy up. If you’ve fought parry happy Gouken’s in SF4 it’s the same concept. Don’t start flow charting st.mk because it’s seems especially susceptible to parrying in my experience.
Obvious point is obvious, but it’s imperative you keep the huge mistakes to a minimum. His punish game is on point.
Make sure you watch out for the dash ins too. His dash is decent and it can be hard to react to. Try not to get caught sleeping.
I don’t think any of Ryu’s cancels into fireball are true strings btw. Even if he spaces properly to avoid a blocked punish, you can. Interrupt with HK Cannon Spike.
On the first stomp I test with st. lp. If it whiffs due to range and they go for it again I will attempt the CS interrupt after mk as it will not whiff at any range that I’ve tested. This probably works on ryu in fireball strings as well, but I’ll need to test.
I’m playing a Laura user now and he’s so bad, but he’s beating me. The score now is 4-2 and it’s annoying me because I am so much better than this dude. I definitely need to practice with Cammy.