If cammy plays perfect she can win. 6-4 at worse. The only bs thing birdie has is the ex dolphin jump throw thing. You cant react and punish it like the regular move.
I’ve started making the specific match-up threads. James gave me the okay.
All done
Yeah Kazu didn’t play too well at NCR, but the first round is basically that match up in a nut shell. The extra 100 life keeps Birdie alive and allows him to get that one extra chance other characters don’t have. Kazu catches him 8 times whereas LPN catches him only 4 times in that round to win so it’s much easier to get the win when you have to open your opponent up far fewer times. I’ve lost to so many birdies getting caught just like that on last hit. Kazu made a lot of mistakes though like using mk too much at birdies st jab st mp range. Birdies st jab and st mp will catch cr mk and st mk unless standing mk hits birdie at the tip. It’s better to use st hp or cr mp to try and catch birdies buttons. If you watch round one he loses for using cr mk, but in round two kazu catches him with the st mp into SA. He should have been using st hp at that range against birdie more. I think you’re best bet against Birdie is either at your max st mk range or point blank, the range in between that is too risky to get caught. He also had a hard time adapting to Birdies push back. He is one of the few characters you can only punish with a hit into a special for little damage vs two hits into special on a lot of his unsafe stuff. Kazu missed punishes because the second hit whiffed and the ones that did hit did little damage. I also noticed Kazu was missing a lot of meaties or was just letting Birdie get up free which was really odd as Birdie has no reversal really. I mean at one point Kaz lets LPN get up and then just dashes forward for what seems like no reason only to get grabbed.
It does feel like you have to play Birdies much differently in general though. His delay on moves is so slow it really throws you off. It almost feels like it’s your turn but then bam you are getting bull headed into critical and once you do slow down to assess the situation the EX swan dive is coming out of no where to take 30% of your life. Birdie also has a greater grab range than you which throws you off as well, you have to do at least two st lps then shimmy rather than one st lp shimmy to try and grab techs like you can for most of the rest of the cast. Trying the normal timing usually means you get grabbed instead. Kazu even loses it to cammys grab whiffing but birdies reaching in the final round. You just have to play Birdies a little different and it really throws you off, add in his high health, your limited chances to get max punishes on his mistakes and it’s just a really up hill battle. I mean you have to rely so heavily on corner pressure and grabs to get things moving otherwise they will just turtle and wait for that one mistake you make to either beat you or tie it up on life. As you can see in the video jump ins or ex dive kicks really don’t help you in this match up. I’ve had the most success against good birdies playing footsies catching them with st hp into CS/CA or V-Trigger combo to get the damage you need. Once I get the lead I try to make them come to me, just have to be ready to jump the EX swan dive or EX command grab to get that last big combo in to finish. The rush down pressure just doesn’t seem to work as well as with other characters as the grabs aren’t really a big threat to birdie if he does get caught 5-6 times with a grab. He only has to hit you once to get all that damage you did back and it’s not that difficult to delay tech grabs in this game especially if you know her grab setups. The only thing I think Kaz should have tried since he was doing risky stuff anyway was a close up v-skill to maybe catch LPN on the other side.
I think the video someone posted here showing cobelcog playing a high ranked birdie for like an hour shows the match up well though. You can tell it’s really hard for Cammy to win the thing compared to Birdie. It’s doable it just harder.
The only thing a good Birdie usualy throws me off with, is the high useage of lights.
I honestly struggle against the LP’s more than anything else he has.
Other than that, every Match from Kazunoko I saw so far, he played still like in IV.
“Oh I got knocked down, wakeup DP!”
“I lost 50% because of this. Just do it again!”
“Omg I eat a punish! Wakeup DP!”
And if he doesn’t do wakeup DP it’s always a jab.
I never liked this guy before and I don’t do it now, I never will anyway.
Kazunoko should never go for stmp crmp frame trap string vs birdie. The crmp will almost always miss against standing birdie. Should have used crlp ch stmp sthp/crmk xx arrow.
Birdie has no answer to ex tk strike into cammys frame trap mixup. At best he trades.
What’s annoying is his stupid far reaching buttons and that ex Dolphins dive. Cammys Stmp from far away works pretty well and is hard to whiff punish. Sthp is also good.
Meter management is extremely important in this mu,
my assessment for cammy as a character overall:
good things:
- she can mule characters that dont have invincible dp. she forces the opponent to use vreversal to push her away. or you have to guess. good luck gussing against cammy. (she has a similar 50/50 divekick/throw game as sf4 if not stronger). and also in the form of very strong frame trap/throw mixup.
- ex tk dive kick is very cheap. on hit resets into that 50/50 guessing game. on block you are in the 50/50 guessing game too. so it doesnt matter if it hits or not
- strong pokes, stmp, far reaching st mk (can combo if you want to end the round with vtrigger into dp or super).
- lol 3frame dp. back mp is a very good anti air.
- very good vreversal.
- one of the best punishing characters in the game. she practically can punish almost anything from anywhere. very versatile super.
the bad:
- average dmg compared to other characters.
- no overhead (other than instant jlk which is char specific)
- limited vtrigger. very easy to burn it with 2 moves : (
- she is pretty straight forward. there is no gimmicks. no magic. you must have good understanding of the game to do good with her.
- the worst thing about cammy is that she is boring : D. and dry. lol. again its because of how straight forward her design is.
her low health and low stun is another one for the bad. It’s possibly her biggest problem in the Birdie match.
Olympian, you’re playing Cammy? Glad to see you’re around. What’s your CFN?
do you really consider her damage average? that surprises me
I’m pretty new to competitive fighting games in general, so please correct all the stuff I’m wrong about >_>
I keep seeing people saying Cammy has a great V-Reversal. I get that it is a cross-up and knockdown and a great way of getting out of the corner under pressure, but it is -8 on block. Right now (and certainly at my level) that’s not a problem, but as people get used to it I can see that V-Reversal getting punished pretty reliably. It’s only a 17 frame start-up, so one needs fast reactions to deal with it, but it is incredibly flashy and has a big red marker that comes with it. I have read in places that it needs to spaced correctly, but I haven’t found any evidence anywhere that the spacing changes the frame (dis)advantage.
I guess my question is: are the people saying Cammy’s V-Reversal is great really saying it is a useful, but occasional, surprise weapon, or am I just completely wrong here?
You can V-Reversal while your opponent is in his recovery frames, it cancels the blockstun. I use it against moves with lots of recovery and never got punished for it, I don’t think that was possible.
That said, her V-Reversal is realy good, if you know how to use it. If you just do it every time they bait and punish it, but that works against every V-Reversal.
It is spacing dependent because if someone does something long range, and you V-Reversal, you could land in front of them for a free punish.
That said, IMO, it’s the best V-Reversal in the game because it’s a free out of the corner option that you can confirm easily enough. Forget the fact that it hits cross-up so that it requires a little more thought when blocking it. It’s just a great option.
I think it’s the deciding factor on why Cammy beats R. Mika. She has a better neutral game, great frame traps, and can take Mika’s biggest strength from her and not only escape, but put Mika where she gets wrecked (the corner).
don’t know if anyone has posted this stuff before but here’s a list of counters to some notable moves from this doc.
Chun IA Legs: To beat this move you need a crouching normal that hits high. When dp’ing, input it as 323 to get it while crouching.
cr.HP (can risk a trade but is in our favor), HK CSpike
Nash Moonsault:
It looks like a very strong move, but since it doesn’t hit behind it’s possible to walk under it if done from close. The hurtbox extends below to you can also beat it with an anti-air.
b+MP, st.HK (CC) > HK dp
Mika Dropkick: This move’s weakness is its startup. When fully charged, it starts up in 33f so every character can simply neutral jump after seeing Mika start chargeing. But if your reactions are too slow or the spacing isn’t right you can get hit during your jump and take big damage, so I’ll introduce more options. A lot of these options are low damage buttons like jabs, but since you get the pressure when they land the risk reward is pretty good.
st.MP, st.HK (CC) > MK Arrow
Dhalsim TK Teleport: It’s not possible to cover all 4 of Dhalsim’s options, so it’s best to chose an option that covers both in front and behind teleports. If he teleports backwards, he just creates space so simply walk forward (but be careful not to walk into j.HP). Fast projectiles like Ryu’s EX fireball and Vega’s V-Trigger will knock him down so the reward is good. Every character can beat the forward teleports (both front and behind) with a standing jab but the reward is small, so if you want a more damaging option you can use one of your characters Crush Counters. Using a fast move is ideal if Dhalsim teleports back.
st.LP, st.HK (CC) > HK Spike/st.HP xx Hooligan
EX Cannon Strike: We need an option that covers both EX Strike (or normal strike) and a regular jump in. It’s possible to make EX Strike whiff with low profile moves. Certain characters can low profile under it and punish the recovery. Another option would be an anti air that can beat both the dive kick and a normal jump with the same timing. This will generally be a DP or neutral jumping with a normal that has long horizontal range.
MK CSpike
Vega EX Barcelona: In the corner, EX Barcelona is hard to block, it has a good hitbox so it’s also hard to anti air. It’s a hard to react 50/50 and if you try to get away you just get hit, so you’d think this is a strong vortex, but if the third hit doesn’t connect the recovery animation changes and he becomes punishable. You can use a low profile move/high invincible move to make that last hit whiff. Not every character has that luxury though, and if yours doesn’t just use a dp or an anti air.
LK CSpike
Rashid dash Eagle Spike:
MK arrow, dash -> close LP xx HK DP, HK super
Rashid Whirlwind Shot (canceled into roll V-Skill?): *The first thing to keep in mind is that there is no reason to block HK Whirlwind Shot. The best answer is to interrupt it.
Rashid will most likely Whirlwind Shot from st.MP, f.MP (1), st.HP or cr.HP (1).
st.MP or f.MP (1) xx HK/EX Whirlwind Shot has at least a 5f gap so you can jump or even interrupt it. [That sounds off, f.MP xx EX Whirlwind seems like it has a 3f gap so you can’t jump, needs further testing].
cr.HP / st.HP xx EX Whirlwind is more dangerous. It’s not a true blockstring but you can not jump and can not interrupt it without an invincible move.
To sum it up:
st.MP / f.MP xx HK Whirlwind : Can jump or interrupt easily. Don’t block it.
st.MP / f.MP xx EX Whirlwind : 5f gap so you can jump on reaction [Again, need further testing on f.MP]
cr.HP xx HK Whirlwind : Press a button on the timing where you would have blocked an EX
cr.HP xx EX Whirlwind : 4f gap so it’s hard to interrupt. If you try to jump out you’ll get hit airborne, the correct answer is to block.
st.HP xx HK Whirlwind : Can interrupt
st.HP xx EX Whirlwind : Has the smallest gap at 3f. You jump you die. If you see the flash, block and maybe V-Reversal.
So there’s 2 things to keep in mind
After blocking st.MP or f.MP, if you see a HK Whirlwind press a sweep or another button, and if it’s an EX jump out.
After blocking cr.HP or st.HP, press a button on the timing where you would have blocked the EX Whirlwind.
*
Karin Rekkas: First, remember this: if you block a rekka just mash low jab. It will punish the rekka if she doesn’t do any followup, beat the elbow (down+P) and the throw (up+K) will whiff and land behind you.
Karin can only backdash (K followup) to make herself safe, or use the palm § or slide (down+K) to beat the jab.
If she has a full gauge, she can do palm xx super as a scrub tactic elegant strategy to beat the jab, so you might want to focus on blocking if she has the meter.
cr.LP x2, or just MK super if you have the bar, hits ALL followups
Karin sweep: Everybody can sweep it back if badly spaced, but from max range it gets harder. The hurtbox stays out for a little bit after the active frames so you can hit that with a fast move.
cr.LP xx MK Arrow, raw MK Arrow, MK super
b mp is good vs iall
Stand strong punch beats all of dhalsims teleports. Stand jab if they start teleporting with a short kick.
Nvm
It’s all done: Cammy Match-Up Thread Index
Messaged you a few days ago.
Ready for merge whenever you are.
If you haven’t done the lab time against Alex yet…
- B+MP stops head crushers and stampedes
- Chops can be whiffed punished like gief’s charged HP’s with st.HP x arrow
- Blocked NON-EX chops can be punished with st.LP x arrow
- Blocked EX elbow can be punished with st.HP x arrow
You should note that non-EX chops can be spaced so that Cammy cannot st. LP. For example, st. MP xx LP Chop is not punishable by st. LP, nor is a well spaced st. HP xx Chop
Cammy can punish HK Elbow if it isn’t spaced out from about 85% screen (meaning max range). Elbows are also punishable by CA,
Also, you can punish Alex’s overhead with HK CA only from what I found. LK and MK gain 2 frames of travel. HK works because of Alex’s height I guess, so you maybe gain 1 frame of travel. Needs to be reversal timing.