Or you could V-Reversal?
I think vreversal has to be one of cammys hidden gems in her tool box. Being able to toss someone whos presured you in the corner right into that corner by simply blockig is so stupid lol.
You can V-Reversal throws now? That’s definitely not a thing. DPing throws is definitely a thing.
I think you missed Basics’ point, which is this:
With a full CA, when a character knocks you down in the corner/is frame-trapping you/is resetting you into some mix-up you just really don’t want to deal with, then DP xx HK CA is a janky option select because…:
1./ If they tried to attack you, they eat a DP into CA.
2./ If they tried to throw you, they eat a DP into CA.
3./ If they tried to bait the DP and block, you get some chip damage in and fly to the other side of the screen and out of the corner.
The only option this is bad against is…:
4./ They tried to bait the DP to whiff, in which case the CA doesn’t even come out so you’re really no worse off than just having done a DP without the CA buffer.
This isn’t some all-powerful tech or something, but it’s actually a pretty amusing way to either get some damage or GTFO if you have a full bar and don’t mind spending it. Not the kind of thing you break out in every match, but it’ll definitely catch people off-guard if you keep it in your back pocket for special occasions.
TL;DR
V-Reversal doesn’t do half of this shit, so I think you missed the point.
Yeah it’s definitely one of the better V-Reversals in the game, especially given how well it compliment’s Cammy’s overall game-plan.
I’ve been doing that CA escape option thinking it was scrubby. Glad to see people better than me have been doing it as well. Firstly I want to thank everyone who shares info in here, I have been able to take down my nemesis Chun because of these boards and the information here. If you are new here to these threads listen to these guys they know what they are talking about.
That being said every time I go up a league or super or ultra I find a new character who shits on me. The million dollar question. What the hell have you guys been doing against Dhalsim???
Is there a Cammy player here that has a great understanding of the Birdie match? This is the only match that just frustrates me at times. Win or lose.
I think this could help some people here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAMn9gZay08
No I don’t made this.
That would be great cause I’m convinced she loses this mu badly. Like 3-7 bad. The damage output. Health advantage. And I feel like he has really good buttons to shut her footsie game down. Could be wrong but it’s what I believe regarding this. Some tips and/or tech to at least make this feel more winnable would be appreciated.
Having trouble with my friend’s extremely turtle Birdie as well. Over at eventhubs it shows the matchup as 5.1-4.9. I don’t believe it lol.
Cammy-Birdie is 6-4 without and 5-5 with V-Trigger.
Cammys walkspeed and her pokes are Birdies first main problem, she can bully him to death just by dancing around on this maxrange.
Walk in and out on his maxrange and stay ready to whiffpunish everything with st.hp xx HK Arrow.
His next problem are TK EX Divekicks, they’re hard to react to, his only option to stay ready to beat them is Bullhorn or better EX Bullhorn, but this would mean he has to hold 1-2 buttons,what limits his neutral against Cammy and puts him at a serious disadvantage.
His next problem is Cammys pressure, once she’s in his only way to get her off of him is his V-Reversal, what delays his V-Trigger and his V-Trigger is his most important tool in this MU. He has no way to get her off and blocking a lot just increases the risk of eating a lot of damage.
The last point would be his can/banana. He can’t use them from any other range than fullscreen, because you can always react to it and punish him midrange. His only ways to use this tool against Cammy is either fullscreen away or on a knockdown. Then again most can/banana problems can be solved by simple walk forward block and NOT to jump.
And don’t forget that everything Birdie does is unsafe as f*** and Cammy can punish him most of the time.
Is this all based on theory? I agree with a couple things but the rest, I’m left scratching my head. I haven’t seen a Cammy bully a Birdie yet.
Shit and the whole time I was sitting here hoping you had an answer for him.
I honestly haven’t found a legitimate way to beat a birdie that has good reactions for teching/anti air. Bullying from afar isn’t the best option as he can catch your mk and it hurts way more than yours does. The st hp does catch some of his stuff but you are in his range at that point so if you mistime it again you are getting hurt way more than him. Even when you have him in the corner you have to guess right so many times to get enough damage to finish him off, but if he guesses right once with critical art its over. You’re timing, blocks, and AA definitely have to be more on point vs Birdie than any other character imo. To say it is 6 in our favor I’m just not seeing it.
Everything Cipher points out can work but again if you mistime or get caught it’s 2-3x worse than what you will be catching him with if you guess right most of the time. TK EX Divekicks don’t net that much damage and he can just block it plus you need meter. Again it’s fine if he is mashing buttons but if he is turtling waiting for your mistimed poke the dive kick ain’t doing much plus you need that CA damage in this match up with his health. The best place for him to be is in the corner, that’s where I feel like you can finally win, but again if they are blocking and teching non stop it gets tough as you are forced to delay slightly to catch late techs and when you start delaying that’s when his moves have the chance of connecting too. I mean if he catches you with any lk or mp or god forbid a bull horn it’s 60% of your life easy. Add in one simply chain grab while dashing in, a poke, or anti air and Cammys KO’d. Now if we land a solid jump in combo 3x times (not some bs reversal after an unsafe move that does dick for damage) he still isn’t KO’d. We have to land a few more pokes, grabs, CA, or V-Trigger in addition to KO. All more chances for him to catch us with that easy to confirm 60%+ combo. In any other game where you told someone you have to guess right five times but I only have to guess right three times you’d say that person is at an advantage. But hey Cammy has better walk speed right, so that totally makes up for the damage and life discrepancy. I’m being sarcastic, but these two characters are on complete opposite spectrums where it matters. Life and damage. It may not be 3-7 in Birdies favor but it’s definitely in his favor and was designed that way. There is no doubt about that. Actually I might say when he has V-Trigger active it probably is 3-7 as he gets even more damage and walk speed, were just lucky it takes 3 bars to fill up.
I’ll test out some more stuff to see if I pick anything up. I’m honestly only beating the ones that can’t deal with the pressure. That ones that have good reactions and timing just feel like I’m trying to sprint up a mountain and gassing out at the top. I’ve lost so many while pressuring in the corner to have them catch me with something into super when they had one hit left and I had more than 50% of my life. I do have a bad habit or going into hard sometimes, but that’s why I picked Cammy.
Same boat here. I’m still waiting on Vega but can I also request a video of Cammy bullying a good Birdie around? Cobelcog is arguably the best Cammy for now and even he says she’s got problems in this matchup.
i’m honestly getting sick of people telling me that cammy has better normals than birdie at range. birdie has like 3 normals minimum that outrange our best, st. mk, he’s got moves with armor, he’s got crush counters he can just throw out during footsies. his st. mk starts up in 8 frames and does 70 damage to our st mk that starts up in 9 frames, does 60 and doesn’t go as far. and he most certainly does not struggle to keep cammy out of the air.
The only thing I agree with is that he loses to Cammy’s pressure. Most of the stuff Birdie does that is hella unsafe is random, not-high-quality Birdies. Good Birdie players aren’t throwing out random chains and things like that.
EX Dive Kicks require meter, so it’s a tool to be used as it’s available.
Cammy can’t just sit there and poke Birdie. Any trade is out of her favor. His life + his damage. Three pokes is the same as one of his. And the range that you play at to stay outside of his max range opens you up to EX dolphin dive. You can’t just sit and be comfortable in the neutral at any moment at that range. Between his pokes, his safer slide (unless you have V-Trigger DP or CA), EX Dolphin Dive, his random headbutt into V-Trigger…there’s too many options to think about. Cammy has to play a flawless game whereas Birdie can take risks because only combo is half her life.
Birdie doesn’t need can/banana because he can contest her neutral. Between being able to challenge her strengths, having more health and high damage, and the ability to take a few risks, he wins. Once he has a life lead, you’re in even more trouble unless you have the meter to go for an EX Dive Kick and hope he gets clipped.
He is the only character I don’t have an answer for. Nor does any other higher level Cammy I’ve spoken to about the match (Cobelcog, Juicebox, Beni_Best, Danslip, etc). Nash gives me trouble, but I am still learning how to deal with him. That’s me, not the match-up. Birdie is the only character I see as a problem for Cammy.
I’ve only found that establishing an early life lead and forcing him into the risk options works.
I am “FULLY” willing to admit I am wrong if someone can just show me the way, but no experience, no replays watched, or anything else has shown me that this match isn’t bad for Cammy. @Angerus (Birdie player) believes that Cammy should go in on Birdie, just rush down and get him cornered, so maybe there is something to that. Maybe Kazonoko is gonna show us something, or Poongko, or Kbrad, or someone, that makes this match much easier. Who knows?
For those who didn’t see, some good play coming from the Final Round teams tourney. Kazunoko OCV’d FChamp/Ricky/Justin, Noel/Moons/AlucarD, and BAS/Dogura/GO1 in the team tourney. Fairly good insight into the matchups.
Sadly no birdie though. Most noticeably for me was his spacing against karin and dhalsim, and I like how he dashed in exactly when ever someone jumped back to maintain that spacing. He also had amazing hit confirms with mp and his dive kick delay was varied heavily to catch stuff. I honestly don’t know how he does it though. When I try to vary the timing I hit in completely the wrong spot but he seems to be able to react and confirm the placement. It’s like he jumps and waits to see what is going to happen then hits it, but damn it takes really good timing and awareness on your part.
One thing I saw that seems to be a problem for all Cammys is the runaway and the feeling you need to keep rushing in. In all matchups he lost it was mainly due to the opponent running away and him getting caught by trying to chase. Then once he was behind on life it just got worse as he had to go for an unsafe spiral arrow or more predictable dive kick to try and get in.
[quote=“Ramma, post:214, topic:179049”]
This is what I’ve found to be the most effective as well, and is what I try to do but it’s easy to get caught when you are pressuring that much.
I’m glad I’m not the only one at a lose against birdie.
The only character I hate to play against and the only one I have no idea what to do no matter how much I play him.
Definitely want to work on a counter pick for him.
^ Well, if you want to counter pick, I think Laura is the way to go.
Honestly, I do believe there is a way to make the match manageable. It’s just a matter of putting it together. Just fought a Gold birdie named ChiefGief. As soon as he made a mistake I swarmed him, and won the set convincingly, so maybe there is something to it.
Right now, I still think Cammy is outclassed because of health and damage output with the ability to contest footsies.
Not just theory, I used this in matches.
The point is not that you outrange Birdie with your moves, the point is that you stay at max range of his moves and then st.hp a lot.
It’s the same trick I use in the Vega MU and Birdie fall for them the whole time, if they notice that I just wait for their moves, they start doing stupid stuff and I start to overrun him.
I usualy don’t share stuff that doesn’t work from my experience, the thing is if others can do this too and if they understand what I do.
I play pretty flexible and adjust a lot during a match.
Well appart from my salty adventures, but thats another story.