Making LK Spiral Arrow safe on block, regardless of the lost damage or positioning, would instantly make it the only version of Spiral Arrow worth using. There’s no incentive to actually learn your links after that point because you’ll have the crutch of a safe special to cancel into. Hell you would be opening up an entire Pandora’s Box of gimmicks, gimmicks that would only cheapen the character rather than improve the experience.
Learn your combos. Every normal in this game has a 3-frame buffer to link into another normal. You don’t even need to plink, in fact plinking doesn’t work and actively fucks up your links if anything. Double tap or just learn the incredibly easy timing.
That’s not true at all. Changing how it functions on block does not change how it functions on hit. If you think LK SA being safe on block would suddenly make it the only version worth using, it should already be. Right now, it isn’t used at all because you get no benefit on hit vs MK and HK. Optimized combos go for the moves that offer the best damage/positioning on hit, so they would always include the other versions. Are LP MGB(Dudley), LK Axe Kick(E. Ryu), LK SK(Bison), etc the only versions worth using? No.
Tell that to all the other characters with safe specials to cancel into where that is proven untrue.
If that was the problem, I’d be asking for safe MK, HK, or EX… I’m not. I just don’t think it’s fair that any version of her SA is punished on block as hard as a DP. It has no invincibility, doesn’t go through fireballs without meter, doesn’t low-profile… Ryu’s tatsu crushes lows, corner carries, goes through projectiles, and gets him pretty far across the screen. The hardest you can usually punish that is with a cr.HP or DP.
Ryu and Chun most certainly get punished for dropping combos; you can go for EX Legs or EX fireball but everything else gets punished. If Bison goes for a MK SK combo and drops it he gets punished. EX SA pierces as does VT which can make it safe.
I think there’s a valid argument that LK SA needs a purpose, but making it safe let’s you just freely do all sorts of nasty shit with poking out of cr.mk.
@"Phantom Angel"
Bisons scissor might be not punishable,but for some weird reasons I was able to counterhit the most Bisons with cr.mp/mk after their scissors. Either are Cammys normals faster than Bisons or the Scissor is - on block.
Feels like his CVS2 scissor which was unsafe,but had like no blockstun.
Birdies Headbutts are also punishable, try H Cannon Spike,works good for me. Either they’re punishable or my opponents never block after them.
For Charlie,just anti-air him every time he jumps and remember that his EX Booms are unsafe,like realy unsafe,L and M should be punishable with V-Skill / Ca on reaction and H has so much startup that I just divekick him the moment he starts the animation.
Yea, he can block after most of them, which is my point. The ones that are really unsafe aren’t getting 500 dmg punishes like Cammy’s SA.
I’m not too sure about what safe/unsafe in this game aside from what we’ve been talking about. Gonna have to look at the frame data, because the things that happen mid-fight confuse the hell out of me lol.
Oh so I’m not the only one hating the Bison matchup? Chun-Li wrecks him and Ryu is pretty even, but Cammy seems to have issues.
brain dead Cr. Mp Scissor Cr. Mp mash firewall, rinse repeat.
At some ranges if Scissors hit Cammy deep Cr. Mp xx SA will punish but otherwise he’s safe.
Serious question though what is the go to Stun combo you guys are doing?
Without VT I’m doing
(meterless) J. HP, F+Hk, B+Hp xx DP or SA for screen positioning
(1 bar) J. Hp, F+Hk, B+Hp >Hk xx EX DP
(CA with VTrigger) J. HP, B+Hp VTC Cr. Mp xx SA - Mk CA
Whiffed DP’s or reversal punishes I’m primarly sticking to St. Mp, St. Hp xx Hk SA for corner carry but Dp of course nets more damage/stun.
anything better I should be doing that I’m unaware of?
I’m having trouble with landing a Hp Hoolian Spike Cr. Mp, St. Mp xx consistently too
So to offset if I drop the combo I’ll do Cr. Mp, St. MP, St. Mk as a decent block string and a good way to catch people hitting buttons.
Cr. Hp after this string has landed me a few Crush Counter too.
I track my wins/loses so I’m sitting at 76% right now with Cammy. Starting to feel pretty confident with her.
My go-to meterless stun combo is j.HP s.MP s.HP xx HK DP
My optimal stun combo is f.HK b.HP>HK TC xx CA. Does 506 damage, which is actually more damage than any VTC combo into CA because you don’t get the scaling off of the Spiral Arrow. If you stun them and have a full stick of butter, this combo will kill anyone with standard health outright. If it doesn’t kill them, then you still have V-Trig to finish them off. More damage, saves VT, win/win.
Also you’re losing damage by following up your VTC with cr.MP. You can connect s.HP into any special cancel after the VTC instead.
You miss the point - moves mean you can interrupt his pressure, Bison has nothing invincible appart from his CA. You can remove all his momentum and start to pressure by yourself and then just keep it simple. Frametrap/throw mixups, cross him up to make him lose charge and so on,you also have better pokes this time,you can pretty much outfootsies him and st.mk can stuff scissors too. I don’t see a big probleme over here or maybe my opponents just suck.
Whiffpunishing with cr.mk was never so easy,feels realy good winning footsies battles against Bison,Chun and Ryu.
btw. if you counterhit Bison with cr.mp after his scissors,you can go for st.mp/hp(depending on the range, st.mp can be linked into cr.mk) or cr.mk xx DP/Arrow.
I realy don’t see a point why they should make Cammys Arrows safe, her footsies is better than ever,not as crazy as CVS2, and you should be able to outfootsies your opponents. But I should stop talking about Cammys footsies,before Capcom arrives and nerfs her.
No you’re not, fuck that matchup right now. I really don’t feel like I have any options against a Bipson that doesn’t jump…his pressure is fucking real…
Bison pressure is fake as hell in this game. The only times you really need to fear a throw are after a hit MK scissor kick and if he’s teleporting around in V Trigger. Otherwise just bully the hell out of him with jabs after blocked SK (you can punish MK ones) and using St.mk and cr.hp in neutral. Just don’t jump at him and run jab into frametrap/throw once you get in.
So it’s a CCH (free SA or Super on counterhit), but also quite slow so I’d shy away from it unless you’re trying to stuff a move in neutral. Generally you want to frametrap into St.mp as it’s decently fast and links on hit to all her cancelable moves if you catch someone trying to jump or backdash. Cr.mp can also work, but you need a counterhit to link to anything other than another cr.mp. I’m sure you can also work in TK EX Divekicks somewhere, as in hit you can do walk forward jab into a left/right/throw mixup by dashing under.
Work in tick throws after both one and two jabs in addition to fishing for counterhits to keep them scared. I had a Cammy earlier who I just downbacked for 30 seconds because she kept trying to go for counterhits instead of throwing me.
Now that first phase of the beta has passed what are some good mix-ups and hooligan things we can do?
I didn’t have much luck in-game with Hooligan as buttons always knocked me out of the air.
I did find HP hooligan into Cr. Mp, St. Mp xx to be a good set up
and VSkill into Cr. Mp xx to be a nice way in on projectiles but other then that I just relied on footsies and smart decisions to pin the opponent.
So I didn’t really do any mix-ups.
I also want to know what are some good utilities for Can-of-sprites, lol
They were a dominate force in SF4 but I didn’t have any good tricks outside of EX/VT cross ups and in the corner Deep LK was easy to confirm St. Mp, St. Hp after it. Didn’t explore much more than that truthfully.
Cannon Strikes seem pretty dangerous to use overall unless you can hit them in the knees, which I guess is standard divekick affair; space properly or get blown up.
Also, and this is just speculation, but I wonder if you get more frame advantage off of Hooligan Cannon Strikes than regular Cannon Strikes. I can combo out of Hooligan Cannon Strikes easier, but it could be because Hooligan Cannon Strikes are always consistent when it comes to the height they’re executed at, whereas regular Cannon Strikes have to be timed more by the player.
I saw the best usage of Hooligan to be canceling out of blocked normals up close so that you can surprise the opponent with a divekick or go over their head to dodge attempted anti-airs. You just cannot use it in neutral or you’ll get swatted out of the sky.
Those were my thoughts exactly.
I was doing some jab pressure on block and I’d go for either Mp or Hp hooligan.
the problem I ran into is if I was playing some who was mashing them buttons.
I can’t tell you had many times I tried to jab check someone and go for a throw only to be Cr. Mp’d in the knee
Go back and watch the replay and they hit Mp like 10 times, sigh…
Why wouldn’t they mash. Tbh that’s ur fault, if u know they r gonna mash why would u even attempt it. What u should have done was make them afraid 2 press buttons by using moves that would beat there mashing then go 4 the grab once u have conditioned them.
If ur saying online wouldn’t let u do anything that’s understandable tho
I feel bad for Cammy in this game. Ryu can parry her specials on reaction and Cammy has to play for high risk high reward. Truly the weakest character in the game atm. I really don’t know what they can do to fix this character besides giving her a high priority dive kick or make it safer on block, which presently gets owned by every normal in the game lol. All opinion though, I really want to see a top player prove me wrong…