Can you explain how this works please? Do you input the v-skill followed immediately by the throw or the other way round or maybe both at the same time?
Allright so I will explain very generally how any throw OS of this kind works.
You input (Whatever you want to come out if your opponent doesnât throw)~Throw Input.
Now when you get thrown youâre allowed to tech a throw as long as you input LK+LP anywhere in the throw break window. Letâs say you must input throw within 10 frames of getting thrown. Now within that 10 frame window youâre allowed to mash whatever the hell buttons you want but if you input LK+LP anywhere you will get a throw tech.
So for the V-Skill + Throw OS youâre inputting MP+MK followed by LP+LK immediately afterwards. If you inputted just LP+LK+MP+MK then you will just get a throw because the throw input takes priority when pressed in combination with any other buttons.
Now if you input this OS at the right time you will get a V-Skill if your opponent didnât throw (because you inputted V-Skill before Throw), and a throw tech if your opponent did throw (because you inputted Throw Tech after V-Skill and V-Skill canât come out while youâre being thrown).
Did I miss a conversation or two? Did everyone know this and Iâm just behind in the times?
[quote=âRamma, post:143, topic:177752â]
Did I miss a conversation or two? Did everyone know this and Iâm just behind in the times?
[/quote]Oh I didnât realize that the frame data lists this as 5 frame. When I was testing Cammyâs safe jumps against Cammy herself, if she couldnât safejump a LK DP then she couldnât safe jump a CA either.
Thanks very much! Iâm going to go work on this because it looks like it will be mega useful, thanks for the thorough and clear explanation.
Cammy Oki vs All 3 Tech Options after Spiral Arrow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGGZ8c-k9qg&feature=youtu.be
HK Spiral Arrow > Dash up LP Whiff > Brief Downback input > Neutral Jump j.HP
-Safejumps 5 frame DPs and can make some faster DPs whiff (ex.Cammy LK DP)
-The downback input will let you block DPs/Mashing if they back tech.
-LP is recommended because you will catch Neutral tech mash with it. If you use s.MK you will meaty back techs, while still having the option to beat no tech if they do that instead.
s.HK can hit crouching if you do it meaty. You can even combo from it without the crush counter. If youâre perfect with your meaty youâre +1 on block (you will know when Cammyâs leg is vertical at the moment of impact). On hit, you can at max be +5 (you can combo into c.MP).
Trying to find a consistent setup where you can always get a +1 meaty but its really hard so far.
Found a consistent setup off HK arrow, but only +4 at best so on block itâs either 0 or -1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8HIfv4hIO8
Meaty st.HK loses to wakeup 3f or 4f crouching normals :(. Either Iâm doing something wrong or it just doesnât work.
Could it be that wakeup button makes your boxes crouch faster? What is weird is that youâre not even getting counterhitâŚ
Lol I just did further testing it even loses to wakeup sweep! Iâm guessing it has something to do with st.HK tiny ass hitbox that doesnât reach low enough to catch wakeup low buttons.
Not all crouching normals get away for free. I tested with Kenâs wakeup cr.lp and I managed to get a CC. But somehow Giefâs cr.lp managed to stuff the st.HK.
So low forward doesnât combo into anything right? I tried it out in training mode, but just want to be sure.
edit; I meant to put after v trigger.
Itâs this. s.hk has a hitbox that seems specifically designed to go over most characters in a crouch.
Just go into training, pick Cammy twice, and then set the dummy to crouch.
Stand as close to them as you want and hit s.hk - it wonât ever hit.
This is the gameâs way of telling you to stop trying to use s.hk this way. I mean, there may be corner cases where s.hk is a good meaty normal, but there are also too many ways it gets blown up where you wouldâve been better off with s.mp or c.mp. Not all CCâs seem intended for meaty applications (see R. Mikaâs f+HP, which is a godlike meaty CC). This one seems mostly to be your DP punish, an anti air normal, and a tool to use to CC throw techs off of a good shimmy setup.
Edit: Not intended to hate on the tech. Tech is always useful to know. It just isnât always practical.
I know that st.HK whiffs on crouchers, but after I saw that it hits on crouchers when itâs meaty, I had to look further into it. I wouldnât have guessed that meaty st.HK would flat out lose to wakeup jabs while I was recording so I was busy finding a setup for it. I agree itâs not very good to use as meaty as a result which is pretty disappointing. But itâs interesting nonetheless.
I can pretty much always followup a lk divekick on hit but if I do it instantly after a hsa I canât follow it up, and it even looks like it hit meaty. Back in SF4 the first frame of waking up always counted as standing (itâs what made possible âmeatyâ hooligan and instant jump overheads on wake up) but that should also count for counterhitting those crouching normals.
Thereâs something weird happening around wake up. You can see in the video s.HK hitting the crouching idle dummy. Itâs like the button makes the hitbox shrink faster or perhaps it has something to do with low profiling⌠I donât know.
Dunno if this is common knowledge, but I saw only one mention of this anywhere. If you activate V-trigger right after a normal you can make any unsafe normal safe. Kind of like focus cancel in SFIV. You can only do it once per round though.
I tested it with Cammyâs cr. HK. (-12 on block) A blocked cr. HK with V-trigger cancel is safe enough to backdash against Zangiefâs Critical Art which has a startup of 1 frame. Also tested with st. lp on block. Itâs worse with V-trigger cancel than without. But that doesnât matter since itâs safe on block anyway.
So⌠All normal moves that are minus on block can be made safe once per round with a V-trigger cancel. Was this known?
Found a nice setup. Almost like an invincible teleport. (kinda)
After a forward throw, if you mp hooligan after a very slight delay Cammy will look like she ends up in front but the very last frame before her landing is actually at the other side. Impossible to react to. It almost looks like a teleport if done right. Been abusing this like crazy online. Gonna see if I can make a video of it.
Obviously: if someone does an invincible reversal youâre screwed.
This is actually my biggest problem with Cammy. Because (most) low normals enter crouching state on the first frame, her CC is effectively useless as a meaty/frame trap because it will lose to reversal low normal no matter how slow the normal is. As a low health/stun rushdown archetype, she should be able to put some fear into the opponent with her CC. They should REALLY let s.HK hit crouching or give her another CC that does.
I actually thought this worked because of that 1 standing frame. But I realized that SF5 doesnât seem to have that (I tried really hard to make meaty hooligan work as well as getting j.LK to instant overhead on Birdie).
My best guess is that from getting up > crouching there is a brief moment where your hurtbox extends far enough where Cammyâs s.HK can hit it. If you do a certain normal on wakeup it will remove that small hurtbox that exists during the transition from wakeup to crouching.
BUT IM JUST GUESSING AT THIS POINT.
I definitely donât think I would even use s.HK as a meaty myself. Itâs way too hard to get it to do what I want consistently.
Thereâs always cr.HK LOL.
LOL!
Honestly, it should probably go back to cr.HP giving the normal stun and st.HK giving a launching stun (and still not hitting crouchers).