Calling ALL HDR (West Coast) Players...Don't Let SF2 Die

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
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I know this is really just semantics, but focusing on “status” has the loaded connotation of being primarily concerned with what others think of you. I definitely agree with the general idea of what I think you’re getting at, but is that really what you meant?

Anyone who’s ever practiced or studied a fighting game to get better to win more understands the level of personal satisfaction gained from beating others, in the sense that your victories become benchmarks for gauging self-improvement. I wouldn’t know much about the types of personalities that breed top players, but I’d venture to guess that they’re first and foremost after the feeling of achievement from knowing for themselves that they’ve beaten everyone, rather than the feeling of conquest from having everyone else know that you’ve beaten them.

I don’t necessarily believe that having the goal of “status” cheapens your accomplisments, but my gut instinct is that it doesn’t sound like it lines up very well with the kinds of people that I think are typically drawn to playing fighting games seriously and competitively.

I dunno, maybe I’m just naive and silly about the whole thing. :lol:

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Wow, definitely some great posts in here. It’s awesome to know that there are still others who are passionate about SF2…

Terry, great idea about having a site to unite players. Needless to say, I figured something of that sort would have to be done outside of SRK.

Pancho, I understand where you are coming from. My only suggestion would be to look outside of SRK. Even living in So’cal, there isn’t really a high turnout. Thus, I’m compelled to venture past SRK…which is not bad considering that there are way more players out there who are NOT on SRK or any gaming related site. When my bro plays online, we encounter several players a night from the New England area…so, they are definitely out there.

Cothx, I hear what you’re saying regarding actually attending tournies/regionals. Essentially the decision to attend ultimately boils down to what does said game mean to you? If it’s just something to pass the time by, I wouldn’t recommend traveling. However, if this a hobby you are committed to, then you might want to really consider attending at least 1 event per year (whether it be a major regional or Evo). I know it’s easier said than done, considering most SF2 players are considerably older than the rest of SRK and have other commitments (work, family, etc). However, if it’s something you’re passionate about, you’ll do what you can to attend. On unrelated note, you need to get on XBL so you can view your opponent’s location within their profile. You may come across some fellow statesmen.

Ganelon, you have to consider the fact that not everyone who visits a game site (IGN, Gamefaqs, etc) are registered and active users of their respective forums. So, there’s certainly a good possibility that many gamers do not know about tournies at all.

As far as the payout is concerned, money does drive some, but not most. I can certainly understand wanting to win a tourney to offset one’s expenses (airfare, hotel, rental car, food, etc), but consistently entering & TRAVELING just for the pot, can’t be enough to sustain player interest. I mean, at some point you will eventually achieve some status in your career and the payout amount will seem meager. I do agree that having a big payout can draw in SOME marquee names, but that’s merely a short term solution. There are only so many tournies that can offer mega-payouts. What will the HDR scene do in between those dry periods? Which is why it is essential to have a solid core at the local level.

As far as Japanese the presence is concerned, I will have to respectfully disagree about the relevance they have to the future of SF2 over here, let alone HDR. James, I hear what you’re saying regarding the 3s scene being invigorated by the Japanese “shocking & awing” at Evo. But the reality is a group of said players coming to the US for a total of 3 days does not a scene make. If anything, there presence is more novelty than anything else. I know it worked for 3s (vids & all), but I honestly can’t see that being the only viable chance SF2 has, let alone HDR. SF2 has always been strong enough competitively to stand on it’s own without direct Japanese influence (I’m talking pre-ST here). True ST popularity amongst this site was greatly aided by the Japanese, but do keep in mind that ST was the least played SF2. The earlier versions of SF2 did quite alright without Japanese intervention.

When I see the predicament HDR is in, I can’t help thinking, “damn, this really could have been avoided.” Iapetus made a post a few months back which flew directly under the radar of most people. That had to been one of the best posts I’ve come across since I’ve been in the scene. But rest assured Iap, my bro & I knew exactly what you were talking about! He posed the question, why wasn’t HF at Evo considering it HAD the sales? I have wondered the same thing ever since I attended the B5. Next to WW on Snes, HF was by far the most successful SF title sales wise. I’ve always wondered how much further along would SF2 be (competitively speaking) if Evo/Bs had chosen to go with HF, especially after it’s XBL release. As beloved as ST is here, it’s obvious that it was the least played SF2 iteration. Meh, who knows…and it’s kind of mute at this point.

And as far as the ST contingency that continually spews venom towards HDR? That’s sad really. I mean, the game was made for you guys in particular. Sure it didn’t feature everything you wanted, but you just need to adjust. Hell, if a CE, HF, or SSF2 player had to adjust to accommodate the scene’s selection of ST as the tourney standard, than those guys seriously have no excuse.

Apologize for getting a tad off tangent in those last 2 paragraphs…as you were :cool:

83

I want to attend a tournament, but its hard to justify going just once. Online’s cool and all, and I want to improve. I just wish I had a group I could play with offline. If there are any guys down here, they either aren’t on this site, or they stay away from the TN thread.

I guess maybe, I should try to create interest. :confused: Have no idea how I would attempt that. Maybe I need to wait till I’m out of school.

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I don’t know for sure why it wasn’t released there, but I really doubt that’s the reason. They didn’t release HF on XBL over there either. So, I think it’s more likely that it’s some BS regional licensing logistics between Cap US and Cap JPN. Companies need to get with the times and do things more globally. Anyway, regardless of why, it’s stupid that it wasn’t released there.

That said, I’m glad that a lot of Japanese players have figured out how to circumvent the region problems and get a copy. I keep seeing new players from there on late at night. I don’t know who they are, but they all seem to be really good.

But that was in the era before online play…or at least before it was good. XBL, PSN, GGPO, and 2DF are our new arcades. And there are a lot of good players on there who probably have only heard of Daigo in passing, let alone know who Gian, Komoda, Kusumondo, Pony, etc. are. For that matter, a lot of them probably don’t even know who a lot of the top US tournament players are.

It also used to be that Japanese match vids were the main source of inspiration and learning. But these days, we’re seeing more and more high-level match vids from outside of Japan as well as new techniques being discovered. Megaman’s scary Honda combos are a good example of this. I’m glad to see us getting past the XCOPY Japan mentality.

I think the best way to strengthen the scene is to get this new wave of online players to go to (more) tournaments. And I don’t think the way to do that revolves around being awed by the Japanese. I think the real hurdle is to get today’s generation of online-only players to realize that it’s a lot of fun to get together offline and hang out and compete with fellow fighting game players.

I honestly don’t care what a small handful of old-school players think. There’s tons of players, many of them new, who do like this game. All this scene needs to thrive is a lot of players that like the game. And we have that.

I respectfully disagree. I may be biased because I only really got into ST a little before GGPO, and GGPO helped me to quickly move up from trash-tier to being halfway decent. But I also met a lot of other players on GGPO, who I had never heard of before, that have also made a healthy transition over to HDR. There were also a lot of XBL HF players that used GGPO as pre-training for HDR. GGPO has been a great help to this scene, IMO.

Frankly, the only people I’ve seen holding HDR back are the handful of players that talk trash about the changes made to it. If some of them weren’t high-profile names, nobody would care and it’d be a non-issue.

Well, throws don’t suck, jab isn’t GDLK, and it dosn’t have Ultras…for starters. :wgrin:

I don’t think almost anyone will switch to HDR. But I could see some people that play SF4 exclusively pick up HDR as a second game.

Agreed. I also think it would be really helpful for us to embrace the people that do like this game instead of trying to win over the hearts of the few that weren’t happy with the changes.

85

I can honestly say I have been playing SF2 since World Warrior days(I was like 6 or 7 years old practicing on Snes with my bros) and I never knew tourneys existed until 2005 when AE came out on Live and I met DGV on the gamefaqs website and they actually showed me SRK.

86

HDR is better then VST just that people that played VST alot really didnot get into HDR because of the Repetitive thing that they could no longer do in HDR like a lot of people i know that play HONDA in VST stop playing because they could no loger do corner trap throw LOOP, or people who play HAWK could no longer do TP throw LOOP with him, or FEI player who say that FEI is worst off in HDR because of the nerf but, fail to realize that the upgrades makes him just a bit better. SO instead of playing the game and, seeing what it can do most of them just took what everyone else said nat DAMNED the thing.

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But wasn’t HDR initially supposed to be just a 1080p port of Japanese Dreamcast Super Turbo Matchmaking Game or whatever? And not a ‘better’ version or ultimate version of SF2? The concept of balancing the game again was a later addition, and in addition to the art, was one of the things that made creating the game take a long time.

If HDR had included a perfect arcade classic mode, with CPSII sprites and music, and original backgrounds, preserved in 4:3 mode with arcade perfection, and no remixed mode, it would have saved the war of Classic vs Remix. And it would give everyone a reliable port of ST on the new systems (PS3/360) with online functions.

One of the biggest draws that the game initially had is that it would eliminate the problem of “what version of SF2 do we use at EVO”? Which is actually what CCC2 was supposed to do a couple of years ago. With a PS3/360 perfect port of ST there is no more issue. Before it was do we use CCC2 with its lag, AE even though it’s not ST, DC ST even though the DC’s are a dying console, PS1 ST?

Having a PS3/360 perfect port of ST was the original idea right? Even if it had optional 1080p graphics.

This is Capcom and Backbone’s fault. If you want to play Super Turbo with the best netcode (GGPO) then the only place to do so…is GGPO. Capcom licensed GGPO but didn’t use it for HDR. And even if they did HDR’s Classic Mode is still missing the old backgrounds for no obvious reason other than it being a glaring omission. If HDR had classic backgrounds and a better netcode then GGPO wouldn’t seem like such a better choice to get an online ST fix. So yeah, if you want the best ST online, you have to divert yourself from HDR.

The big question is this: would you have rather had HDR turn out to be like it is now? An upgraded and a rebalanced and remixed game with its controversy? Or like how Backbone and Capcom handled the upgrade to MvC2? Where they merely ported the game over in its original state and then added optional graphical changes and some other minor tweaks like online and menus and such.

I realize that MvC2 PS3/360 isn’t a perfect port but it was intended to be.

If HDR was an arcade perfect version of ST with no remixed graphics or music, just a perfect CPSII emulated game running on the PS3/360 would that have been enough?

To me, the biggest thing that HDR has going it for it, is that it’s on new consoles. You can have HDR and SFIV (and soon T6BR) running on the same consoles and using the same sticks which is a major plus. Not only that but HDR runs directly off consoles (no disc switching).

If ST ever gets a perfect port to the PS3 then maybe it can become the console tournament standard again. But until then, it must move over, and make room for the new standard, (no not SFIV), HDR.

HDR needs its own EVO moment to get everyone to pick up the pace.

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Good competition breeds good competitors, and good competitors breed bigger competition.

I went to a few people’s places that I met via SRK, and everyone wanted to run SF4. I played a couple of HDR games with folks, and usually won convincingly. It sparked interest - “How did you do that? how come I’m getting completely demolished? I’m doing the same thing as you!” If you’re into the game, and especially if you’re above average, help the community. Don’t be a dick about it, and answer questions people might have, but you’re basically the lynch pin for developing the community around you. If you’re passionate about something, it’s amazing how that excitement is shared.

Still, that isn’t necessarily enough - you have to remember that the game is pretty much all figured out - is there still a lot of innovating to do? The mechanics built into the game don’t allow for big “Wow!” moments that everyone can understand. Obviously, clutch comebacks and turning points do exist, but there’s nothing fancy, no “Daigo parry video”. SF4 has the new release hype about it, tons of excitement, and the “I want to get that good/I want to do that!/I can beat this guy” syndrome. 3S has really flashy combos and jaw-dropping moments that can still draw new players in. SF2 has… old graphics and tick throws that frustrate the hell out of people? I love the game, but it’s hard to sell it to the average, casual video-game player.

HDR reinvigorated the scene, and Evo was proof of that - it just means that if we, as SF2 players, want the game to keep/gain more players, it needs a lot of time and energy invested. Why Capcom didn’t do any promo is beyond me. The game sold better than any other game on XBLA. Now we’re stuck trying to play catch up after the SF4 juggernaut has arrived, and again, it’s a pretty hard sell to make, ie Why should someone play a game that’s 20 years old when they can play the newer and prettier game that everyone else is playing? The only answer I can usually give is that the games aren’t mutually exclusive, and playing both can work out.

Enough mindless rambling for now…

89

Re: VF4.

So again the point comes up, has ANYONE really checked wether classic mode is a solid port of the DC version? I agree that if there was at least an option to keep everything classic that would have been a good fallback if HDR somehow failed. But the inability to use the old backgrounds along with the old sprites kind of tainted that possibility.

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HDR and classic mode inside of HDR, are not the same speed as the DC version. HDR is actually slower. HDR T3 =! DC T3

So, technically its not the same.

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So what I’m supposed to do stranded out here in VA, there is no community for me to support?? HD is already dead here…i think…Competition is limited cause i cant play online as much because of school: what am i suppose to do?

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I’m in the same boat, I guess we are gona just have to deal with it.

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Noskid313: Here ya go: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=206956

I encourage you guys to actually look at the profiles (applies to 360 HDR) of your fellow opponents…you would be surprised how many of them reside in your state. Then proceed to cordially message them with ggs, etc.

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Weren’t people saying the PS3 version is slower than the 360 Version?

If that’s the case then if your comparing the PS3 version to the DC version then you may have inaccurate results.

If I’m wrong though, be sure to correct me!

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Ganelon’s thread came to the conclusion that the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions run exactly the same speed during a fight. The only difference was that the time between rounds is slightly faster on PS3.

STHD on Turbo 4 is close enough to arcade ST I say. The small speed difference is no different than the other 10 versions of SFII I have learned to play over the years. I don’t think it shouldn’t be an issue and we should adopt STHD for the tournament standard for ST if we choose to revert to that version of the game.

If HDR remains the new tournament standard then the speed point is irrelevant, being a new game and all.

Also, personally I like and prefer the Udon graphics.

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^

Good to know.

And I certainly don’t miss the Old characters, let alone ST shenanigeans so HDR to continue being the tournament standard is alright with me!

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I’m fine with shenanigans. I’m not fine with tick throws from command throw range. Oh wait, that’s in both games. :lol:

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i made like 300 something from hdr tournaments and mm, u just gotta be proactive. well maybe its too late now

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Funny, in the process of chiming in on this thread, I realized that I actually don’t care that much whether ST/HDR avoids falling into relative obscurity.

It’s obviously a great game, and Sirlin made some very good adjustments, but it seems to me that the main problems with ST are that (1) it is, without question, a game with some serious flaws (few though they may be), and (2) it is no longer in a position to evolve into something significantly original without become a very different game.

Back in the day, in places like the alt.games.sf2 Usenet newsgroup, we old-schoolers would compare SF2 to chess, operating as we did on the notion that SF2 was as deep and as flawless (from a design standpoint) as the venerable board game. But the fact is, it’s not chess; if it was that good, the game would be alive and very well (relatively speaking, given the size of the video gaming community vs. the size of the parlor gaming commuity), and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

At this point, I think that it’s impossible to halt SF2’s descent (or ascension, depending on how you look at it) into the history books. To his credit, Sirlin has temporarily slowed it down, but the writing is on the wall, and has been ever since Capcom attempted to address most if not all of SF2’s biggest flaws, starting with the Alpha series and continuing with the SF3 series.

SF2 has had a very long run, and has lasted a very long time (spanning two decades!) on the great strengths of its design. Those of us who were there to experience its heyday, and the few late-comers who acknowledge its value, are always going to love it, but I for one would like to see SF2’s poorer design aspects successfully addressed in some other title, and assuming the market is going to play a key role in that development, I actually WANT to see SF2 fizzle out.

And now, Asian breasts.

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SF2 is and will always be classic. There will never be a fighting game without flaws, considering Super Turbo came out in 15 years ago many consider it one of the best fighting games ever made even now. SF4 is not a game I enjoy personally but it revived fighting games to 1990’s levels of interest which is something I don’t think anyone could have anticipated 3-4 years ago and I definitely respect it a lot for that. Whether or not ST or HDR will still be played in the future is very much up in the air at this point. HDR brought new blood to SF2 play and it’s certainly a very fun game but I feel like it introduced more problems then it solved. It also opened a Pandora’s Box in that at this point it’d be very hard to go back to Vanilla ST in any serious way in America. I’d like to see SF2 continue to be played, but at this point I think that will probably only happen in Japan past the next 3-4 years.