Got laid off today
Gg oil and gas
Sorry to hear that Fogers.
It’s definitely not pretty out there.
Damn that sucks homie 
I guess I’ll be making it to hexters on Wednesday though!
Sorry to hear Foger. Time to ride that EI train buddy! Ramen noodles and cheap beer, the FGC lyfe
Pro tip: if you haven’t used it in the past 10 years, you don’t have to pay it back
Everyone gets one I guess lol
hope you land on your feet foger
re: state of sfv, i think the game looks faster right now than it will be long term
killey said that throws after a knockdown were a good idea but i still don’t see it. very few characters can get in throw range after a knockdown, and midscreen post-throw mixups are still, for my money, incredibly weak and not scary (not counting some command grab characters). i’ll mash with jab some of the time but i’m pretty happy taking the throw against a lot of characters rather than risk a crush counter. once i see you’re out of range for crush counter i’ll try to take back pressure sometimes but even then, it’s whatever.
the game is still, i think, pretty “by the books” during pressure. if i ever block ken back+MP or st.MK, i will press a button 90% of the time and force you to do some DP risk to check me. that’s how julio lost grand finals at winter brawl, he wasn’t willing to risk the DP and li joe checked him there every single time and completely nullified his entire game plan. julio needed to throw more instead of shimmy, but because you don’t get the world’s best reward after a throw, i think julio was (perhaps rightly) trying to force the issue with frame traps and shimmies instead. he wanted to land one confirm combo so he could get the corner push he needed to actually be scary, but it didn’t happen in grand finals and he lost soundly
infiltration is, by far, the best international player in this game right now, he’s so far ahead that i don’t think even the best american players could challenge him. if he goes to final round i think he wins for free. i’d love to see him do that.
That sucks man
Throws post knockdown are good for corner carry but not for extended offense. Forward throw into a forward dash usually puts you at minus frames if they decide to quick rise and we saw players eat wake up jab as a result. Throws after a knockdown is perfectly acceptable after knockdowns that left them in a favorable position, such as DP or tatsu. The reason why they’re good in that situation in midscreen is for conditioning purposes rather than positioning and continued offense. As you said, Julio needed to throw more regardless if he wasn’t left in a favorable position after wards. He was trying to ‘shimmy’ LI Joe in almost every situation with the same string. If you ‘shimmy’ every time, your opponent has no reason to tech a throw or push a button. If you show them that you’re willing to throw them then you’re going to implant that in their head next time, which is when the ‘shimmy’ comes into play. You may say that you’ll take the throw every time to reset to neutral but if the opponent is dealing enough pressure the grey life builds up and taking that throw is the equivalent of taking a small combo. There’s also other factors like stun gauge at the time. Part of the issue is people are conditioned to throw tech in those situation because of SF4 so the ‘shimmy’ is working as a first resort rather than a second resort.
If you re-watch the set, the first set Julio went for a throw bait every time and LI Joe didn’t bite at all. The second match after the reset he started to throw LI Joe more and then when he went throw bait it was successful so the conditioning worked during that second match.
Throws in the corner are strong because you’re still left right next to the opponent so you can go for a meaty, throw, and throw bait mind game and you don’t have to worry about quick rise screwing offense up. It actually feels like it’s detrimental to quick rise after a throw in the corner because of the all of the threats available. I feel that’s exactly what we saw with the LI Joe vs Fchamp match with the 4 throws into a throw bait. From my perspective, FChamp didn’t want to push a button or throw tech because of the threat of a meaty so by the time he went for a throw tech he got baited with a throw bait punish. He may have been waiting for a meaty to v-reversal as well.
I don’t think Julio solely lost by the fact he didn’t DP to check defensive jabs but it was a contributing factor. It was a combination of flow chart offense, bad throw tech habits, not checking defensive interrupts with a DP, and generally getting out played in the neutral game. I also think Nash does well against Ken, at the moment.
sure, there are some knockdowns that give you a good meaty. tatsu with ryu is one of them; heavy for sure, and i think also medium does a good job of this. so if you manage to land a hit and confirm a combo, you can get a legit meaty setup that also has a throw threat behind it. in general, though, i think this is the exception, not the rule. most knockdowns in the game force you to give up range and pressure. maybe you get a meaty attack, but you’re not in range of throw, so the meaty isn’t really all that scary.
of course, you could try a surprise dash into throw if you know the opponent is always blocking and never scared, so sometimes you might sneak something past them, but i dunno i just don’t find this particular offense overwhelming or scary. it’s very clearly designed to be pretty much the end of your turn there; even if you press a meaty normal you probably have to press something that is minus on block (like ryu solar plexus), so you get some gray life but it’s still the end of your turn
i shouldn’t have said “take the throw every time”, what i should have said was i am much less likely to avoid a throw than i would be in SF4 or other games where a throw is really scary. sometimes i’ll challenge, but certainly not nearly as much as i would in other games (or nearly as much as most players are right now). i’ll challenge just enough to make sure you know i’m not 100% blocking, but i don’t really care enough about the throw to try and avoid it at all costs, if that makes sense.
and yeah, the white life is supposed to be the threat there. i still don’t think the difference between me blocking 3 or 4 of your counter hit attempts and then getting hit by walk-up throw matters that much… it means i got caught sleeping at the wheel and i still only took 25-30 more damage. unless your name is sim, i still don’t really see white life from pokes as a big deal (maybe white life from v-reversal matters more)
of course, if you have high stun or low life, all bets are off, you have to make some bet to survive. i’m trying not to talk too much about those edge cases because it doesn’t dictate 90% of the play we see for the rest of the match, i’m trying to figure out what kind of game sf5 is under “normal” conditions.
yes, throws in the corner are strong because all it means is you’ve taken more damage without changing your situation at all. if you can get someone to the corner, i’m fully willing to admit it’s scary and hard to escape taking damage without some good reads/risks. if you have good corner carry (like ken or necalli), then it should be your goal to push to the corner as fast as possible, even more so than games like sf4.
and eh… i would much rather quick rise than give the opponent a safe jump after their meaty whiffs because you didn’t quick rise. most characters will be in even worse shape, because now they have to defend against empty jump stuff in addition to blocking the jumpin and being put in unpredictable amounts of block stun (jump LK vs HK, the height you blocked the attack at, etc) and then still having to deal with the same mixup
when I think of Ken’s KDs, pretty much all of them give an opportunity at pressure except if I back throw somebody out to midscreen. Ryu has a few at least that give him pressure, so does Cammy, from what I’ve seen of Gief he’ll destroy you off most of his KDs, Karin definitely puts you back in the shit after she hits you… dunno Ricky I don’t think this is true at all
and dash speeds are faster across the board, the throw tech window is almost 50% shorter than SFIV (only 2 frames longer than 3S techs), crush counter combos are huge… you have the options you need to make an opponent so scared of pushing buttons you can pressure them even when it looks like you can’t
laura only gets good pressure off her back throw, feels sad man
cammy has one (spiral arrow), pretty sure both her throws leave her at range without a scary option. spiral arrow is good and often used, of course, but you have to catch me not blocking to use it, which means i have to be scared of throw. even with cammy’s throw kind of being crappy for oki, i’ll give you that her throw is sliiiightly more scary because she gets to push a bunch of good white life buttons at the mid range. but it’s not like “omg i’m going to die” scary, i think.
this isn’t to say i think cammy sucks (i think she’s pretty good), but she’s not good because she gets knockdown pressure, she’s good because it’s hard to out-footsie her.
the reason i keep talking about the throws is that it’s super great if your main special move leaves an oki setup, but … if i don’t press buttons, you don’t get a chance to use it, so you have to use throws more often than not.
like killey said, i think people are getting hit by non-throw setups more right now, because they’re trying to break sf4 habits. once people are better at assessing the risk/reward behind everything, the game will very quickly become only footsies and not a ton of pressure, outside corner stuff and some command grabs. if you love footsies and “honest play” (i hate that term), then there’s no problem with this.
cammy’s spiral arrow sucks. it doesn’t even hit low. you can stand and block it. it’s very unsafe on block. it’s very unsafe on whiff too.
Cammy has decent footsies but you don’t have to be afraid because she can’t really convert into big damage. her dive kick is the worst in the game. literally, all you have to do is press jab, even against her EX version.
Cammy is not very good imo. her hooligan is a joke too.
i have fun using her but i’m thinking of picking up Ken because he hits like a truck.
just to be clear in my above post, by “catch me not blocking” i don’t mean by spiral arrow raw, i mean as a hit confirm off a poke
and cammy does have good hit confirms if you flinch, she can do medium into medium from much farther away than most characters, can even do medium into fierce which is very uncharacteristic of sf5 characters. and spiral arrow doesn’t care if you’re crouching, like ryu’s tatsu or gief lariat does
Sorry to hear that.
also xian, poongko and infiltration are all going to final round, it’s going to be a bloodbath
Anyone have some simple nash BNBs? Now that im getting comfortable with a stick its time to practice some combos with Nash
cr.lk, st. jab xx QCB + LK (can cancel into CA to finish a round) for quick punishes
cr.mp, st.mp xx QCB + HK (or EX) for standard mp confirms
cr.mp, st.mp xx QCB + MK xx Critical Art
Congrats you can now win with nash while pressing buttons. You’re better off just going to the nash thread and checking it out, i’m sure they have all the shit that’s discovered there already