C3- The Rebirth results(9/22/07)

Tournament Results
81

My comment on cost is basically supporting Hav and Eric “I ran out of kimmicks” kimmicks.

Personally, the last few C3 tourneys I went to, I’ve been severely disappointed at the turn-out for Capcom games, while being duly impressed by Smash and GG scenes, more so Smash though. It dawned on me how stale results were becoming. I think few people have that incentive to practice hardcore with actual placings in mind. I think it’s easy to get into a rut with these types of tourneys and thats why attendees start to drop off.

That being said, increasing the entry fee will definitely attract more out of towners. If its an issue of people not entering a tourney because of a 5 dollar price increase, I think that’s pretty sad. What reason do people really have, to object to 5 more dollars for entry. I know N-Ken mentioned that if you play multiple games it kind of adds up, but still, its really only 5 dollars per game. If you actually play those games enough to care about entering the tourney, then spend the extra 5. If youre just playing it for fun, perhaps you want re-evaluate how much you want to spend on fun. But really, its not that expensive, it sounds intimidating, but seriously most people spend more money on gas than they could even win in the tourneys.

I really think its the wrong frame of mind to say that increasing entry only benefits a few. Five dollar tourneys are weeklies. If we can only play once a month but we are having weekly level tournies, its just going to get boring and stale. Like ramza said, if we’re going to do that, why not just get together at someone’s house and play? People are talking about the lock-in being more fun than the tourney, that’s because the tourney is just the same thing as the lock-in but you play less games and wait around more.

You’ve gotta think about the tournament here, things are definitely not good right now and its not like numbers are really increasing. Do you want to let things stagnate and die, or do you want C3 tournies to grow and attract more players. Its not going to just sit around and be all good if things don’t change in the positive direction, and I’m pretty sure having costs equal to the majority of other monthly tournies is important.

Anyway, I know that it’s already been set for next month, and some games are five bucks. Those games are pretty small anyway at C3 (i guess?), so I can see putting those prices lower to attract more players, but I don’t really think that will do it, just like I don’t think raising the prices will really drop entrants. I wonder what would be a good incentive? Maybe bonus money? These games dont even crack 20 people, maybe the thought of easy extra cash would do it. Nah… I always thought the bounties and things were good ideas too. Or maybe I’ll donate money for 4/5/7 places in CvS2 MvC2, free money for playing? shit like that. Anyway thats just where Im at on the subject, sorry for the novella.

82

in reality, smash players smell a lot nicer than 2d players.

83

Unfortunately, I don’t save up money. I saved up a bunch of money living at home with no expenses and working at a nice job, but that money went out the window as soon as the bill for school came to town.

Raising the prices would make it so that some people who would otherwise have entered would not do so, and I don’t know how that’s really a question. Paul decided to play CvS2 and ST this last time around even though he’s just learning those games, and his reason was, hey, it’s $10, and that experience is worth ten dollars to him. And I’m the same for next month. I finally shelled out the dough to get CvS2 and GGAC, and while I’d think about playing in the tournaments for those games at $10, I wouldn’t at $20. Increasing the fee makes it so that random guys don’t enter the tournaments, or at least enter at a lower rate, and that decreases the pot.

A higher entrance fee might convince some people from out of the area to come out, but when we’re getting people from VA, MD, PA, NJ, and the occasional NC and NY with a $5 fee, and when Justin was planning to come down but couldn’t because his ride’s car broke down, I don’t really know who else we’re trying to convince to come out for monthlies. And with fewer randoms, the pot size wouldn’t be anywhere near double what it otherwise would be.

In any case, I’m fine with having the occasional monthly be a “bigger” and more expensive tourney, if only to empirically see whether the overall pot size would be noticeably larger.

84

In reality, the increase to $10 is for only two games, and I can only think of 1-2 people that play both of those games. One is Steve, and he’s not even gonna be there, but I’m sure he supports the jump.

So, in effect, we’re looking at a $5 jump for most people.

Really, take up any other hobby (golf, bowling, paintball, building ships in a bottle…), it’ll cost much more.

As for the overall scene and hype and whatnot, we actually had a great turnout, and great energy. We’ve got big plans to create a super hype event for January/February. We just have to set it in motion. If all goes well, it could energize the scene for EVERY game around here (even Marvel :wow: ). That’s all I’m gonna say about that now though.

85

I agree most with the normal monthlies then the occasional price increase for certain special tourney dates. I don’t feel that raising the tourney price will bring more people to these tournaments, as for a local, c3 is already the most popular tournament on the east coast. If you have the best players for the biggest game (Justin and Khang) being fine(or at least willing to travel for) the 5 dollar entry fee, I don’t think c3 would see a sudden new influx of players nor a noticeable increase in the overall “level” of play here.

To me the whole “if you’re not playing for money why not just play at someone’s house” logic is faulty because the scene with the best and most dedicated players in the world (Japan) very very rarely even have cash prizes for their tournaments. The atmosphere of a bunch of different players coming together to play street fighter creates that competitive mood, not money.

My main point is, if the best players from New York to NC are willing to travel for this tournament at its previous price…who are these new players we are trying to attract?

86

Honestly, increasing it to $10 isn’t going to do shit. Out of towners are not going to start going bonkers just because the entry fee went up $5. I don’t think that’s ever been the case to begin with. I doubt that that would even stir up some craziness even with your local scene. Keeping it $5 is alot more beneficial to you guys then $10 is just to attract out of state’ers.

Hell, the next tournament being held at W2Z has almost all the tournaments with FREE entry and I guarantee we’ll still hit close to 100 people, and the hype and energy will still be there.

87

I totally agree, and it was done with $5 entrance fees. Even Justin tried to come but couldn’t do so only because his ride randomly didn’t work out.

It doesn’t matter how much other hobbies cost. Presumably fishing off a pier is extremely cheap and I could do it easily back home in SoCal, but that doesn’t make it any more attractive to me and it doesn’t have anything to do with how expensive a Street Fighter tournament is.

Two things concern me. First whether I’ll personally be able to justify the cost of entering tournaments I want to enter. Second, and more important, whether the community as a whole will be better off. I have to think this is closely related to the first, not because of some self-centered belief that I’m so important to the community, but that if I’m considering not entering some tournaments, there are probably others out there like me who are doing the same. There are points at which a tournament is too cheap to attract people and too expensive to attract people, and there’s definitely some sweet spot where you’d get the most, but for monthlies I think that point is a lot closer to free than it is to expensive.

In any case, if most people want tournaments to be more expensive, that’s fine, since I guess that’d show the community would be ok with it. I don’t think that’s the case, though.

88

I just want to try it. I’m a fan of empiricism. Plus, from my conversations with players, it seems like most want the increase.

Only people I’m really seeing against this are David (who as an extreme situation, with his -40k salary) and Jay (who’s a known cheap-ass).

Like I already said, I’d supplement Dave, because I feel like $1 to him really is much more of an investment. Hell, I just paid Jay’s venue fee on Saturday.

I think we should at least try it (even though 10/20 doesn’t seem to be looking like the best day to run a test considering there are lot of conflicting tournaments). We’ll think about it some more, and I’d still appreciate more varied feedback.

89

with the 5$ increase and if i entered everything i wanted to that would cost 38$ :frowning:

anyway im down for whatever but if i fuck up again in gg like i did this time then im probably going to be done. I dont practice and spend as much as i am on this game to not win money at a local tournment.

90

I’m not a cheap ass, I’m just poor.

Regardless of my financial status, I think my points still stand.

91

just make it $10… you would have to lose half of your 14 people anyway to make it a loss in the prize pool and i doubt that would happen.

and marvel is crack… we dont have the super hype around here to hold tournys

92

I have your converter. It was left at C3 by the middle island.

I can handle it all right, I just couldn’t hit my reversals consistently. I was double, triple tapping, etc.
I lost it by picking the wrong characters really. I either should have stuck w/ O. Ken or gone Boxer the entire way.

Anyway, I suggest keeping it cheap.

I’ve tried increasing to 10$ several times, and it does nothing to increase turnout.

This was the biggest tourney by far in a long time… and the games were all 5$.

93

I don’t think that raising the venue fee is going to increase the turnout, it will probably keep the pot the same size but having less people per a game. I don’t know what to tell you, I think $5 is too little but $10 is too much, and having $7 tournies is just odd.

Marvel had a lot of players on Friday night but the lack of sticks made gaming hard. Most of the Marvel players do not own a joystick, mostly because they are old, and some are simply too cheap to purchase one. I honestly think that if David(C3 owner) had bought himself a MvC2 cabinet, he’d be able to draw more MvC2 entries. If I wasn’t the only person who had a P360 that we could of used on Friday night, Marvel would of been played all night.

94

Great tournament, no good tournament, well it was definatley aight. I don’t understand the big deal about a price increase by 5$ for 2 games. I mean i’m sure if people purchased less $2.50-3.00 slices of pizza i’m sure they would easily have the funds available for this. I paige $60 to fill up and drove over 150 miles and the for the amount of competion that was there i could have stayed home and played with people in Baltimore. When did these monthly tournament become $5 they were $10 at GT and the library playing for such a small amout of money just makes us scrubs we might as well just meet at someone’s house and play.

Bottom line people grow up its five extra dollars stop being bitches and save a quater a day until next C3 if not i know that the players from Baltimore won’t be in attendance.

Peace
James

95

o shit i sence a boycott. holy fuck. where’s jinmaster when u need him?

96

I don’t think there’s anyone around here that’s really just about the money.

The way I see it around here, there are two camps. Those who just wanna play, and those who are really out to improve.

Those that want to improve want the best comp to come (knowing it will cut into their potential winnings), and they know that a larger purse will probably bring this. For all the talk about Justin coming, please realize that he hasn’t been to C3 in a year, and when he did come, it was a $10 tournament. Only other time he came down to the MD/VA area since then, he had a $300 MM set up.

I’m not saying we’re doing this to give Justin money, but since everyone wants to bring his name up, at least have the facts.

Anyway, maybe I’m just idealistic, but I would hope that the “just for fun” crowd would want to do what they can to help the others. It’s not like their fun would be cut into if Justin/Sanford/Nestor/etc. were to show up. It would only be better for everyone.

There is a tone in some of these posts that suggest the motivation for bumping to $10 is greed on the part of our “better” players, but I really think it’s the exact opposite because they know that “their” money is going to somebody else.

97

Actually 10$ is ok. Infact it may as well lead to lesser but stronger turnouts for nearly every game, and I like that. Tournaments will be easier to run and take less time. And really, if I enter 3S and ST, its only a 5$ increase from last time which can easily be met for me. But if I pay 10$ for ST this time, I better start practicing for real.

But really justin shouldn’t even be thrown into this. Whether he comes or not has nothing to do really with the price of entry and certainly not a 5$ increase.

I will personally run an “Ultradavid ST” donation drive at C3 if I have to.

But at the same time I feel like I could have more fun entering more games to get a feel for them. I was planning on entering GG:AC next C3 but not now. Whatever. People will pay 10$ for the games they are decent at and therefor it would be the smart move to do. However, I am still AGAINST the increase.

98

if it isnt greed then y is a whole city gonna drop out if it isnt bumped up. y try to make a local a major. if this isnt about money then you should still play competitively either way. am i right.

does any remember how many entrants 3s got when justin was here a year ago. cause im not sure if it actually is better or worse than the 30+ we just got without justin.

you may have talked to other players but there are clearly more people in this thread who are against the increase.

also who are these “better players” you speak of.

$10 isn’t necessarily gonna bring out top players from out of state. its only gonna get less entrants per game. guarantee.

our locals(tourneys) shouldnt be fit to meet the desires of out of towners. but fit to meet the desires of the locals. and all i really see is one city with 4 players and hav who are really for the increase.

ninja edit: and mod

also does finishing a tourney in less time really matter. if its run efficiently like khang did for 3s this last tourney it really doesnt matter. it will get done when its done very efficiently.

99

Pat, you are clearly smarter then everyone in this thread.

100

I still like Khang’s idea.