f+MP is a great overhead. It jumps so it goes over most crouching jabs and sweeps. I use it for people who crouch turtle. After it hits, I do d+mk, LP/MP TK to get the pressure going. If either knuckle gets blocked wk BK will jump over sweeps and most d+mk attempts and that’s what a lot of people do if they’re not used to Viper. If they do standing attacks, go low again with d+mk back into LP/MP TK.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Her crossup bugs me though. Can’t seem to get it to hit consistently like I can with Rose’s.
Be careful with the f+mp as you can be thrown out of it if you are too close. However, you can anticpate on the throws and tech out of them and go for the c.mk->jab TK. However, this move is abusable in her rushdown tactics and should always be used until the opponent starts to anticipate it then start going for other mix ups. The more you change your play style once they get use to something the more you can go back to old tactics that worked so you keep them guessing all the time.
Personally, in terms of play style for C.Viper I go for rush down mind games. Always, looking for the knockdown so I can set up her burning kick mind games. I just love how often that move connects as people try to figure out how to block between the HK and WK/MK versions.
Right now TK HK Burn Kicks are so incredibly difficult to deal with as it cross ups. Other things that can lead into cross up burn kicks is to SJC her c.MK or c.FP if they are blocked at mid-distance. If you are point blank range you can do c.FPxxFTK cancelxxc.FP->SJC HK Burn Kick. If you time this quick enough the burn kick has to be blocked on the opposite side. It comes out really quickly and requires really good reaction time on your opponent to counter it or to block it correctly. I like to throw these out when I start rushing down with c.mk->wp TK. I throw that combo out a lot so every once in a while I’ll throw this out and land me a knock down.
I think people really underestimate the usefulness of Vipers straight jump RH. That move stuffs so many things and works great against Abel and Gief players when they go for their throws. They eat the RH and you can combo into c.FPxxEX Seismo. On block it’s safe to go into c.mk->jab TK or you can SJC the c.mk into HK Burn Kick and try to cross up them. If they start anticpating the straight jump RH do a late WK Burn Kick and keep throw off their counter timing. Worst case scenario they block and you reset the distance between you. Best case is they eat the Burn Kick and you land a knock down and set up for Burn Kick mind games.
Anyone have any tips on the Dhalshim match up? I fought a really good Sim player who had good keep away games and jump in attempts got beat by s.RH. I found a way around the s.RH by using a well timed Burning Kick but it’s hard to get close to Sim when he plays keep away games and mixups with the teleport. Not to mention on Knockdown he can get away with the teleport screwing over my Burn Kick mind games. Furthermore, when he knocks you down he has access to tons of chip damage with either Yoga Flame->Super or Ultra on Wakeup into high/low mixups or switching the block direction by jumping over you. Seismo’s can be feinted to bait things out but when you do them he can teleport behind you. Getting in close becomes a bitch with his reach and the moment you lose momentum in the up close battle he can do his slide->throw game, which is extremely annoying to deal with even when teched. The match up is not to Viper’s disadvantage but I believe this requires a different play style. The f+mp at max range can stuff the slide but anything too close and you go over him and you either tech or get thrown, which resets the distance to his favor.
Epic Username:
Her EX Seismo is by far her best and in general most safe special to throw out. It contains few frames of invincibility on start up so if timed correctly will go through fireballs, cross-up attempts, jumps-in, other specials, etc… I can’t recall how many times this move has saved my ass or in general beat down so many other people. I like to use this after I’ve been knock down and I can see my opponent set up for a cross up or fireball into cheese kills. On cross-ups you want to cancel the Seismo as they can still hit you out of it when they land so if you cancel after the cross up whiffs you can throw or back away. On fireballs it’ll go by you and nail the opponent. I love doing this when people try to use the tick damage from a fireball to finish me off. They eat the Seismo and I SJC Burning Kick for the win. :lovin:
It’s always an incredibly handy move to use in the El Fuerte match up. His knock down game is annoying but EX Seismo will have his moves pass through you and he’ll eat the Seismo and you can SJC Burning Kick afterwards.
Good info. I personally think so far that the Dhalsim matchup is in Viper’s favor simply from the vids I’ve seen. If played right Viper can really gain momentum in the match quickly and she makes it extremely difficult for Dhalsim to use his fireballs with the threat of SJC burn kick. He can still use his normals but taking out fireballs IMO eliminates a good piece of his zoning game. The idea is to keep on top of Dhalsim and occasionally take to the air or mix up where you utilize your burn kicks to knock him out of teleports. I’ve seen videos of C.Viper players using HP Thunder knuckle to beat out random teleport to Dhalsim air normals.
I had no idea that Dhalsim still had slide throw shenanigans in this game. I thought that was old school stuff. Haven’t seen any vids of Dhalsim players utilizing that yet. Guess I’ll wait till I start going to tourneys and see what people utilize there.
I also agree. F+MP is a decent overhead but it’s no Ibuki f+MK. Hella unsafe unless used meaty or from a distance.
Sorry, I should correct myself on one thing. The straight jump RH->c.mk->jab TK is not always safe as the jab TK can be anticipated and Ultra’d/EX’d, however, it’s not really the straight jump RH that sets up the unsafe part. In general spamming jab TK can get you Ultra’d/EX’d depending on who you are fighting. Against Ryu’s Shinkuu Hadouken Ultra it will go underneath and tag him but Ultra’s such as Gief’s or Dictator’s and you will get nailed with them. This is why I like to mix it up with a f+mp as against Gief’s Ultra it will stuff it if done early enough. Basically, if you are in the f+mp animation when he starts the Ultra you will stuff it. Against Dictator I think it stuffs it as well but I can’t remember.
Sim’s slide throw is not the same as Super Turbo meaning he can’t slide underneath you as you recover from the noogie and go for another throw. However, he can slide multiple times to get in close and throw you. The slide doesn’t cause a knockdown so on hit it allows him to get a 2nd one in and then throw. The problem is that if the first hits you can’t counter with f+mp in time but the 2nd slide doesn’t combo either so you pretty much have to block and tech out but it’s annoying to deal with as you’re now on the defensive. I’m not sure if the backdash can get you away from the slide but it doesn’t seem like it due to the amount of time it stays out.
The Yoga Fire is not really that big of an issue and I don’t think that’s vital to his game. Though I will say be careful with the Yoga fire as waiting too long will mean he will teleport behind you and try to attack from behind causing you to block the Yoga fire differently, which could lead into some serious damage if he’s got an Ultra/Super stored. That teleport is rather annoying in general as it gets him out of your oki games but I think I might just to have jump in sooner to knock him out of it but I risk those anti-air attacks. I think the key to that maybe the timing of a cross up as it would cause him to input the directions differently.
I also feel that the match up is not to Sim’s favor but requires Viper to play a little differently. Do you have any match vids between good Sim/Viper players? I wouldn’t mean studying the match up and seeing what works and what doesn’t.
I’m having a lot of trouble with my girlfriend’s new boyfriend. Any tips on how a dead-sexy American MILF can take down an electric green abomination from the depths of hell itself?
I find the Blanka match up to focus more around patience than anything else. Learn which Seismic Hammer versions you need to punish his rolls. Hammer feint to bait rolls and punish however you like, through Hammer on block or if he’s using the vertical version you can try to F Thunder Knuckle into Ultra.
Careful when you’re jumping in on him on knockdown or oki in general due to electricity bull shit.
Did some testing today viper can beat out hondas fp head butt with a well timed s.rh if hes turtling full screen. Timing for the rh is about when honda is a little over the half way mark. It’s sort of a more risky option but if you know the timing it’s a great tool, it gains viper a knock down and the pressure needed to overwhelm Honda.
Okay, I initially thought Viper’s match-up against Blanka was bad. I was wrong.
I’ve done a lot of research against Blanka, plus a lot of online experience. Important strats against Blanka, from what I’ve discovered:
Reversal HP Seismo against a blocked horizontal ball. I don’t know if the strength of the ball matters.
HP TK anti-airs pretty effectively. Bait jump-ins and abuse.
F+MP beats electricity clean. I have yet to see this fail, and I think it’s very important to note considering how much priority electricity seems to have. Fear the thunder no longer!
Blanka ultra is easily punished by your own ultra. Just block, then launch it when Blanka gets to about the level of your head. You can also punish with a properly timed HP super.
Guess I’ll contribute on the forums instead of just irc (come to #capcom already!). Regarding beating electricity, F+MP does beat it, but its range dependent. It can trade. It’s definitely not in her favor and it really depends on where and when he does electricity. It is not the answer to electricity imho.
There is hope though. There is one thing that will always beat electricity and let you get mixup off of it. Believe it or not, crouching LK. It will beat electricity clean. You will be too far to do cr.lk, st.lk, cr.mp into whatever, but you can mixup off the cr.lk. For example, if you do cr.lk into low knuckle, if he’s still mashing electricity or tries to reversal after the cr.lk, the knuckle will beat anything he does clean (except probably the ultra). You can also do a f+MP after the cr.lk and beat any low he tries and you’ll be far enough to beat electricity clean! So I highly recommend you use cr.lk. You might not like the dmg, but you stop his important easy mash move and get free mixup off of it.
after blocking blanka’s ultra you get a free jump-in hk. I was so fucking happy when I found it :rock:
just tested this in training because I lost sooo many games trying to punish with a big ground combo only to hit him too early (still in the air) or too late (he was able to block).
That’s good to know… especially if you don’t have Ultra to punish afterwards. Would be really easy to do jump in HK, crouching FP to EX Seismo. Thanks for the tip.
Thanks for the clarification, I found that out shortly after I made my own post.
F+MP will beat electricity clean from max distance, and also from a little bit further in. F+MP done from really close will trade, and the trade will not at all be in your favor. But from what seems to happen most often, electricity comes from them either trying to get out of TK pressure or on wake-up. On their wake-up you can easily take a step back and get a free F+MP, and from TK pressure you’ll be at the safe range to use F+MP about 70-80% of the time. It’s not a tried and true answer, but it’s a pretty good one.
Now I have questions. I’m currently 0 for 3 against Vega players online. They were all fairly decent, and while my blocking against off-the-wall cross-ups was generally awful anyway, I still found myself having serious problems fighting Vega with Viper. His crouching MP is too fast for you to stay close to him for very long, and his jumping HK seems very difficult to anti-air with HP TK, unless I’m doing something wrong. Does anybody have enough Vega experience to give me tips?
ok, I re-tested this in training mode and I have to partially take back what I said.
you actually CAN punish him with jump-in hk into cr.fp ecc., but it seems you have to meet two weird conditions to do so.
as you already know, blanka’s ultra at close range must be blocked this way:
low => high => any
condition 1 is you MUST block the 2nd hit, the overhead one. if it misses just in front of you, for some reasons the remaning hits (the ground roll part) seems to give more blockstun and your jump-in will be blocked.
the other condition is simpler to meet since it’s something that just depend on you, and not a range-related issue. you must block HIGH the ground roll. don’t ask me why, but if you block low and then jump, your j.hk will go past blanka, and since the fucker can’t be cross-upped (wtf), it will miss.
I’m sorry for having posted that without more accurate testing :sad: unfortunately, when I found it, I have fought a blanka player immediately afterward, and I was always being able to punish all his ultras with j.hk… and that’s because he was using it only as a wakeup reversal when I was basically in his face, and therefore able to block the 2nd hit.
… but anyway, there are other uses for blanka’s ultra outside of wakeup reversal-ing?
dunno if this has been mentioned yet, but rufus dive kick rushdown gets snuffed out by ex burning kick. dunno what else helps against that crap, but I had to discover that answer from a watching a video. it really makes rufus back off which is always a good thing.
My sole instance of experience against Rufus was bad. It seems like you have to be much more careful against Rufus than other characters, because all of his combos are high damage with little risk and Viper is very squishy.
Does anybody know how 720 damage stacks up against Viper’s vitality? Because I recently discovered a simple combo with Rufus that does that much damage. It’s the most damage I’ve ever managed to get in a legitimate combo.
just a ground ex burning kick. you do have to time it so before he lands on the ground or hits you though. the other cool part is all the hits from the little flip animation all the way to the actual kick connect. it really throws off rufus’ rhythm and lets you start putting pressure on him in return.
the match up against rufus is hard to tell who has the advantage, before i figured out how to stop the dive kick rushdown i thought it was in rufus’ but now i think it’s a fun even match up where you just need to be careful of not getting caught in the moves that combo into his super damaging ultras. and he sure has alot those :x