C.Viper Strategies and Match-ups

Last Updated February 11th, 2009: This thread has been written to not only to help you fight against each character from the SFIV cast, but it will list general strategies and tactics that you can use against most/any opponent.

How to Deal with Fireballs

These are your options against people who try to play a fireball-trap game with you:

WP Thunder Knuckle (not good as an instant counter due to the 10-frame startup before invincibility, but good to use when anticipated and/or you are at a far distance)
Grounded MK or FK Burning Kick (If timed correctly, the Burning Kick will hop over the projectile. Not recommended against fast fireballs. Occasionally, the Burning Kick flames may absorb the fireball, but the instance of that happening is difficult, so
it’s not something to rely on.)
Seismo or EX Seismo (Against characters with slow fireballs, like Chun-Li, Dhalsim or Guile, it’s possible to hit them from a distance as they are throwing the fireball, HJC and hit them with Burning Kick for a solid knockdown. Against people with fast fireballs, you will trade hits… but this isn’t a bad option when the opponent is near death.)
Instant HJCed MK or FK Burning Kick (If timed right, you will hit characters even if they throw an EX Fireball.)
Viper’s F + MP Overhead Attack (Advances you slightly as well)

These options are great to use because it will either hit the opponent or let you pass through the fireball without blocking it. Of course, you want to avoid blocking a fireball because it gives the opponent the ability to throw another fireball much sooner.

Knockdown tactics:

Viper needs to knock down most of her opponents in order to play mind games with them. The easiest way to do knockdown set-ups is to put them on the ground first using throws. Here are some mix-ups you can do after certain throws:

After Ab Massage Throw:

Short delay and then do a High-Jump towards the opponent, then do a Burning Kick before they get up (WK goes in front, MK and FK go behind the opponent)
NOTE: Do not do this against Blanka. He can hit you with his Ultra or his Vertical Ball due to auto-tracking. Against Dictator, his Ultra will NOT auto-track, so you don’t have to worry about him hitting you with Ultra if timed right.

After Temple Shock Throw:

Time a regular jump over the opponent, then do a WK Burning Kick to drop straight down
Instant HJCed WK Burning Kick just before opponent rises(you can also dash forward first, then perform HJC WK Burning Kick)
Time an overhead attack as they get up (hard to counter if timing is correct, good option if opponent is near death and doesn’t have an Ultra stocked)
Back up a little bit, jump towards the opponent and hit with WK or FK, then 2-in-1 to Burning Kick (WK hits the front, MK and FK hits the back of the opponent’s body)

  • Short delay, jump towards opponent and hit with MK before landing, insert BnB combo of choice here
  • Short delay, jump towards opponent and hit with deep FK, crouching FP, EX Seismo, Instant HJC MK Burning Kick

NOTE: NEVER use Burning Kicks after knockdowns against these characters: Zangief (he can lariat for free), Blanka (he can counter with electricity or with Ultra), Dictator (when he has Ultra stocked), El Fuerte (Ultra and his EX command anti-air grab can get you).

  • These options are denoted because they are great against opponents on wake up. If hit deep and with good timing, it will counter mostly everything the opponent can do on wake-up (except maybe Ultra) and will create a 50/50 guessing game on whether or not the attack will cross-up. If your jump-in attack does hit, you can do Viper’s BnB (close MP, crouching MP, MP Thunder Knuckle) or you can do a high-stun combo (ex. crouching FP, EX Seismo, HJC to jumping-towards Burning Kick).

This is an explanation of the FK guessing game by Kamui from this forum:

***The way the set up works changes based on the character you’re against, but the general premise is to position yourself after the throw so that jumping HK hits either the front or back of your enemy. This essentially puts the enemy in a 50/50 situation where they have to guess which direction to block. It’s very difficult to distinguish which side the attack will hit on, and since 4 + throw deals massive stun damage, successfully landing a cross up combo afterwards often leads to a dizzy.

Against shotos the basic options are:

1.) Perform 4 + throw, wait a moment, then jump forward and perform a semi-late jumping HK. Hits the enemy’s front.

2.) Perform 4 + throw, take a very short step forward, then jump forward. Perform a jumping HK at the enemy’s neck. Hits your foe’s backside.

Again, the positioning changes slightly against certain characters. Jumping forward without moving actually hits Honda and Abel’s back, which normally hits the front of other characters. Additionally, some characters can crouch under option 2 because of its high attack trajectory, which allows them to usually score a free throw/combo. This is really risky for them to go for though since option 1 will hit crouch attempts. If you’re subtle about your movements, it’s exceedingly difficult for them to tell the difference between both options.


Added Note: I believe jump-in MK has different cross-up properties on wake-up than jump-in FK, especially against smaller opponents. Either option is great and I will post more findings as more information circulates.

How to Punish the Opponent’s Common and/or Abusable Attacks

If you are getting owned by one or two moves from an opponent, maybe this list can help you counter his/her tactics. The list will grow as more information is gathered. Contributions are more than welcome.

Blanka’s Horizontal Ball - counter with MP or FP Seismo Hammer (better recovery if blocked while standing)
Honda’s Sumo Torpedo - counter with WP Super Combo
Blocked Shoto Sweep - counter with crouching MK to MP Thunder Knuckle

Thanks to kaqn and FZ, gamechariot.com and the fellow Viper players on shoryuken.com (special thanks to Kamui, FullMetalRoss and IparryU) for helping me make this comprehensive list.

Thanks to NinjaCW for summarizing what has been said in past threads.

Abel:
-Bait the roll and throw him during the start-up. It will keep him guessing and take that away from his arsenal. If he gets away with the roll, occasionally do WK Burning Kick to thwart his throw attempt and get a counter hit. (Kunai)

-fpTK (late) can beat his Wheel Kick clean.

Akuma:

Balrog:
-If Boxer s jumping in on you really close, you can sweep him on reaction to beat all his jump ins[tested vs all different timings of j.rh] (Magus1234)

  • lpTK beats jab from max distance clean(Magus1234)

Blanka:
-Punish Blanka balls with Seismo (MP or FP depending on range) and if you have bar can go for EX Seismo.

-Blanka cannot ball you between SJC’ed seismos, so you can win out on chip damage exchanges (Buktooth)

-Blanka ultra is easily punished by your own ultra. Just block, then launch it when Blanka gets to about the level of your head. You can also punish with a properly timed HP super. (Casanova)

-After blocking Blanka’s Ultra (blocking it close) you get a free jump in FK. (Rushing Monkey)

-F+MP will beat electricity clean from max distance, and also from a little bit further in. F+MP done from really close will trade, and the trade will not at all be in your favor. But from what seems to happen most often, electricity comes from them either trying to get out of TK pressure or on wake-up. On their wake-up you can easily take a step back and get a free F+MP, and from TK pressure you’ll be at the safe range to use F+MP about 70-80% of the time. It’s not a tried and true answer, but it’s a pretty good one. (Casanova)

-Max Range c.MP beat Electricity clean (Tens)

-You can punish Cross up Ultra with, dash forward c.fp,siesmo,bk,ultra. You can punish EX upball only with ex siesmo(!?). You can save strike the rainbow balls then dash in for FP x2 combo.

Information below posted by DevilJin (July 2009)

- DevilJin Blanka Tips Part 1 -

- DevilJin Blanka Tips Part 2 -

C.Viper:

Cammy:
-Weak Burning Kick her Cannon Drills on reaction

-Against Hooligan (EX or not) Neutral j.FK will stuff it. Can also go for c.lp to hit her out as well if it has caught you by surprise. You can also duck it completely but be weary of opponent throwing soon as they land.

-Blocking close Cannon Drills you can do c.mp xx mpTK and sometimes I have punished with FPx2 combo

-Blocked Cannon Spikes you can Seismo or EX Seismo for free. Can also EX TK for free (reversal timing) and Ultra if you have one.

Chun Li:

Dan:

Dhalsim:

E.Honda:
-Honda - Practice safe jumping, punish his wake up butt slam with a trip guard cr.forward -> mp TK. (MagM)

-On Honda: I have had success with reversal mp.tk after a blocked hp or mp headbutt, pretty sure it’s 100% on both those headbutts when blocked. Also focus/saving is your friend for avoiding cross up splash (j.mk) and buttslam also. I agree with the c.mk into lp.tk or mp.tk also to punish whiffed slams. (Hydro-Kinesis)

-Honda’s definitely a careful match for viper, burning kick tricks right over head on wake up seems to cause fits and he’ll either get hit or lose his charge; from there square jump hp/hk and cross up mk to keep him off the charge and remember the feints in your close sequences (then move in throw / overhead), or to bait him into jabbing etc so you can ex.seismo then combo from there.
(Hydro-Kinesis)

-After a Butt Slam jump forward with FK and it should hit him in the back as he goes up for the next Butt Slam. (Kryojenix) [Confirmed??]

-Dashing under EX Butt Slam [confirmed or no?]

-f.MP over headbutt and punish with mpTK (Magus1234)

-Her super can connect after a blocked Headbutt but it can only be the LP version of the super. (The Invincible Swordman)

El Fuerte:
-You can punish blocked splashes with c.mk xx mp tk. To beat the splash or escape it depending on what variant they did, you can just mash ex flame kick or EX siesmo feint (dont ex siesmo unless you know its not a crossup). [Magus1234]

Fei Long:

Gen:

Gouken:

Guile:

-throwing j.FK (towards) a little early stuffs FlashKick but not EX Flashkick. (Slide)

-Punish Guile’s c.FK with BK [block the first kick then BK]

-When Viper is more then full screen away from Guile and you want to get in, you should constantly throw FP Seismo feints to scare Guile into throwing a Sonic Boom. The FP Seismo wont hit if Guile is exactly the furthest distance away. The FP Seismo will hit if he throws a Sonic Boom, or walks forward slightly. I think this method is the safest way to corner Guile and maintain pressure at the same time even though your full screen away. (Shigz)

-If Viper guesses right and throws a real seismo to hit guile, SJC and your in. If guile quick rises, throw out your hk and continue pressuring him.
-If Guile keeps walking or jumping backwards and you think he wont throw a Sonic Boom, slowly creep your way in by walking foward a bit and Seismo feinting.
-Make sure when your feinting, that you keep in mind that his EX sonic booms are very fast and try your best to jump over them.
-If you miss your hp Seismo, Guile can EX Sonic Boom so watch out. If you put him in block stun, guile can’t do anything, SJC from the blocked Seismo into anything you want. (Shigz)

Ken:

M.Bison:
-Seismo feints can help bait out whiffs or blocks for punishable c.FPxxFTK Cancelxxc.FP combos. Jumping at Dictator is pretty much undesirable as he can beat you air-to-air or anti-air you with s.RH or EX Scissors. Mix up games on wake up are dangerous as EX Scissors can take you out of the air while a mistake can get you Ultra’d. (Killey)

-Air-to-Air Dictator wins against C.Viper unless you straight jump RH but anything else will get stuffed and whats worse is that you could eat a double j.mp into Ultra. (Killey)

-fpTK trades with Scissors but timed early enough you will beat it cleanly. (Killey)

Rose:

Rufus:

  • Let him have it until he has 1 EX bar. After that, you really have to be careful because EX Messiah Kick really bails him out of everything. (Kunai)

Keep him honest by doing a lot of TK and Seismo feints. Otherwise, he’ll definitely control the offensive tempo.(Kunai)

Have the mental discipline to never jump at him. His 2-hit jumping roundhouse to EX Jumping Hand Slaps automatically take off 1/3 of your life. (Kunai)

Unlike Viper, Rufus relies a lot more on jumping in on you to attack. It’s good to do the appropriate standing/crouching jabs (DevilJin brought up the subject just last week). If you stuff him once or twice after a jab, try using Viper’s Overhead to hit him out of a subsequent attempt if he’s getting a little too happy with the dive kicks. You can hit him before he even rises up. (Kunai)

Definitely try to have more health than Rufus throughout the match. Once you are down to your last sliver of life, Rufus has too many options to chip away that last part to KO you. (Kunai)

Rufus has a ton of safe options compared to Viper. It makes for a difficult fight IMO. EX Messiah Kick to get you off him, his ability to really make Viper pay for jumping with the aforementioned air juggle to EX Hand Slaps, crouching shorts or dive kicks to a combo that ends with a spin attack knockdown, dive kicks are sometimes hard to deal with if you are knocked down, etc. (Kunai)

Rufus can snuff an Air Burning Kick with a normal attack cleanly (where he sits on the ground and extends his fists upward). This means don’t follow up with Air Burning Kicks if he blocks an EX Seismo. (Kunai)

FP Thunder Knuckle needs to be used often, at appropriate times. Link Ultras as best as you can, in any way possible… because you don’t get many chances to get in on him and you will end up having an Ultra stocked most of the time due to his ability to deal you major damage. (Kunai)

Jumping straight up and fending him off works some of the time. Just make sure you are at least half-screen away. (Kunai)

If you do a combo, but feel like there may be a gap where Rufus can retaliate… definitely stop and just block, or High Jump backwards and get out of there. An EX Messiah Kick may be coming. (Kunai)

-EX Burning Kick beats Dive Kick clean. You do have to time it so before he lands on the ground or hits you. (LimeGreen Ninja)

-You can use f.MP when you score a knockdown on Rufus to keep pressure on him. Doing it from range will cause EX Messiah to count as an air hit and not net him full damage and if he sits there gonna get hit on the head. Not to be abused but is another alternative bait him.

Ryu:
-lpTK and f.MP are both timed attacks to advance forward over/under fireballs (even super or ultra)

-If caught in a close range battle usually a simple back dash or a defensive c.mp to get your space again.

-You can try to trick him into playing with crouching shorts/strongs and f.MP or Burning Kick him. Can become risky because of SRK’s so try to make sure you have felt it out properly.

-Can play with Seismo a bit from full screen as with all FB characters, but this can also let you control the pace of the fight (especially if you get that knockdown)

Sagat:
-Try to keep his Tiger Shots under control with Seismo’s.

-Up close you can contend with him poking wise but still need good blocking or you can end up losing your bar.

-Easier to cross up because of his larger hit box. Still can’t be predictable or reckless with jumps because one DP can net him big damage.

Sakura:

Seth:

Vega:
-Neutral j.FK his wall jumps (has to make sure he actually comes to you)

-Focus Absorb Dash his wall attacks and throw but you can still be thrown.

-Bait his hop backs and walk up throw (I have personally walked up and hit him with combos but he might have been hitting buttons)

Zangief:
-Try to keep distance as far as possible while zoning with Seismo/ Seismo feints. (Devil Jin)

-If he jumps FPTK / Neutral j.FK (when doing FPTK buffer in forward dash to get the 2nd FPTK or Ultra in case of trade)

-Banishing Flat can be punished (even on hit) with c.mp xx mpTK but punishing on hit is MUCH harder. (tens)

-lpTK can punish Lariat as well as stuff max range c.LK which you will see a lot of. EX Seismo also punishes Lariat as well.

-Don’t mp/lp thunder knuckle at all when he has super/ultra on block he can punish it. (BZB)

-Only attempted cross-up was with SJ lk BK, well timed Gief would eat it, if I perfectly timed a rising lariat, it would trade, but I couldn’t pressure him because of distance.
-bait lariats and snuff’em with TKs
-Seismo spam on KD, either got chip dmg on me from doing a couple/few in a row, or if I lariated it, I’d get snuffed by TK (depends on range) or a well timed EX Seismo xx BK bnb.
-her j.lk and j.hk beat a ‘standing’ lariat. Beat Gief up using the f.MP attack as much as possible to make him want to stand then jump-in. If he isn’t’ lariating from crouch those two attacks crush lariat with ease.
-EX burning kick > lariat (Unrealystic)

Reserve 4 of 6

Reserve 5 of 6

Reserve 6 of 6

Nice thread

ya i know hugh? i remember when it was only on 3 of 6. hell, i followed the whole series…

???

I’ll put the info in soon. Just been really busy as of late. Sorry

See RagingStormX’s post on SFIV general section

…Guys, run-away Claw and d/b Honda :sad:

Claw - fuck him up with mixups if he sits down. Kryojenix likes focus -> dash throw. I personally don’t wanna get grabbed, so I never attempt. I usually wait until he fully bounces off the wall to jump roundhouse him. Sometimes, you can dash back and EX burning kick/fierce TK him.

Honda - Practice safe jumping, punish his wake up butt slam with a trip guard cr.forward -> mp TK.

Me and Kryo were talking about some Honda techniques. We were thinking of scenarios where he’s in the corner, and Viper blocking for a mixup, and he neutral jumps. Kyro had a nice idea of EX burning kicking him on the way down, -> ultra. I think you can trip guard his jump with cr.forward into mp TK, but I will have to confirm before anyone tries this and loses a valuable match.

Against Honda, IMO, you have to play hit and run, without trading hits. Seems nearly impossible, but yeah, that match is pretty retarded.

I didn’t think you could EX Burning kick into ultra? Does it work if t hey are higher up when they hit you.

On Honda: I have had success with reversal mp.tk after a blocked hp or mp headbutt, pretty sure it’s 100% on both those headbutts when blocked. Also focus/saving is your friend for avoiding cross up splash (j.mk) and buttslam also. I agree with the c.mk into lp.tk or mp.tk also to punish whiffed slams.

Ex burning looks like it could connect to ultra if you hit them while they’re high, I have yet to get in the situation to try it though.

Honda’s definitely a careful match for viper, burning kick tricks right over head on wake up seems to cause fits and he’ll either get hit or lose his charge; from there square jump hp/hk and cross up mk to keep him off the charge and remember the feints in your close sequences (then move in throw / overhead), or to bait him into jabbing etc so you can ex.seismo then combo from there.

My sucess rate vs honda has gone up emmesley when I started recognising when he lost his charge, and punishing/mixing-up from there. I’m now 4 games straight against our top Honda player (Matt) in AK, that’s from a 9 game losing streak. :slight_smile:

I played a Honda player who did Torpedo, I blocked and went for MP TK and he did EX Torpedo to hit me out of it… wonder if it’s because he did WP Torpedo or if EX Torpedo has special properties. Wasn’t paying attention.

Thank you for the input guys. I will definitely add it to the match-up thread when I get a chance. Still working on refining the Movelist thread for now.

Last night was a learning experience… played against a Master Rufus, only the 2nd time I have ever played him. Here’s what I had learned after playing him.

  • Let him have it until he has 1 EX bar. After that, you really have to be careful because EX Messiah Kick really bails him out of everything.

  • Keep him honest by doing a lot of TK and Seismo feints. Otherwise, he’ll definitely control the offensive tempo.

  • Have the mental discipline to never jump at him. His 2-hit jumping roundhouse to EX Jumping Hand Slaps automatically take off 1/3 of your life.

  • Unlike Viper, Rufus relies a lot more on jumping in on you to attack. It’s good to do the appropriate standing/crouching jabs (DevilJin brought up the subject just last week). If you stuff him once or twice after a jab, try using Viper’s Overhead to hit him out of a subsequent attempt if he’s getting a little too happy with the dive kicks. You can hit him before he even rises up.

  • Definitely try to have more health than Rufus throughout the match. Once you are down to your last sliver of life, Rufus has too many options to chip away that last part to KO you.

  • Rufus has a ton of safe options compared to Viper. It makes for a difficult fight IMO. EX Messiah Kick to get you off him, his ability to really make Viper pay for jumping with the aforementioned air juggle to EX Hand Slaps, crouching shorts or dive kicks to a combo that ends with a spin attack knockdown, dive kicks are sometimes hard to deal with if you are knocked down, etc.

  • Rufus can snuff an Air Burning Kick with a normal attack cleanly (where he sits on the ground and extends his fists upward). This means don’t follow up with Air Burning Kicks if he blocks an EX Seismo.

  • FP Thunder Knuckle needs to be used often, at appropriate times. Link Ultras as best as you can, in any way possible… because you don’t get many chances to get in on him and you will end up having an Ultra stocked most of the time due to his ability to deal you major damage.

  • Jumping straight up and fending him off works some of the time. Just make sure you are at least half-screen away.

  • If you do a combo, but feel like there may be a gap where Rufus can retaliate… definitely stop and just block, or High Jump backwards and get out of there. An EX Messiah Kick may be coming.

If I find out more, I’ll pass it along.

YES… I know I havent played the same level of competition that you have but this is the #1 thing i noticed in this match up. along with everything else you said this seems to be what the match revolves around. once he has that EX meter the match changes significantly but until then if you play solid you can really dictate the match…

Yeah, if possible, try not to let him build meter at all. A tall task, though… and it’s hard to keep him occupied to the point where he cannot use or forgets to use EX Messiah Kick.

If anyone is interested, Min0ra put up the SFIV National Tournament quarterfinal vids of Dashio Vs Kindevu’s Rufus. Not a pretty sight.

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That first round was GREAT!

Not going to watch the rest.

LOL good idea. He gets owned the next 4 rounds.

The last part of the first vid, it was a good idea for him to do EX Burning Kick in the air, but I was surprised that he was still hit. Probably if he did it just a tad later, he would have tagged him.

But I hope that this demonstrates how difficult the match can be. I consider Rufus to be one of Viper’s toughest matches (aside from Dictator and especially Honda).