I was talking about this with someone. Spazzy Vipers are flashy and all, but they aren’t my thing to watch. I only like Vipers like Joe that do things for a reason. Faking too much isn’t faking out anymore, it’s wasting time you could have used to space and all that…that’s completely my opinion though.
Dashio is definitely cool and flashy. I prefer the fundamentally solid Vipers though.
I agree, but to an extent. Sometimes you need the flash to intimidate some type of players. Granted, not everyone will fall for it, but it does work amazingly well against other opponents, regardless of who they play.
You can’t take away what Dashio has done, though… to do as well as he did on a national stage is way impressive, and he got further than Joe did. Even though the games against Kindevu weren’t as disciplined, he got to the quarterfinals… so he must be doing something right. But he probably died by the sword that got him there in the first place.
This is why I enjoy observing other Vipers… every Viper I have played and seen have been so different in style. You can’t play her one way, but it’s also good to learn different styles of Viper play to have more success against more people. Learn how to be flashy at times, but also know when to lock down and be solid, not giving away anything to the opponent. Especially if the opponent can counter a lot of your offense naturally.
BTW, Joe is no longer listed on the SFIV rankings. He must have deleted his card information recently. Dashio is now the top-ranked Viper player.
Yeah Joe must have retired or something. There’s plenty of other top C.Vipers to learn from though.
Thanks for the thread…
What’s “HJC” stand for and how do you perform it? I looked it up in the SRK glossary as well as Viper’s combo thread but couldn’t find it…
HJC is the same thing is SJC. High/Super Jump cancel. The main definition of it is to cancel a normal or special move into a jump. Some moves have frames which are specifically designed to allow you to cancel them with a super jump. Like when you hit someone with a regular or EX seismo or a close s.MK.
Cool - thanks bud!
I’ve come across something interesting while fighting Honda. A blocked butt slam is usually followed up with a command grab/butt slam mixup. Anticipating a command grab, I went for a tiger knee’d flame kick. Unfortunately, I was wrong and he went for a butt slam. Fortunately, I fucked up the flame kick and got a normal toward jump roundhouse…which stuffed the butt slam by hitting him in the back on his way up. Excited over this little discovery, I did a jump toward roundhouse every time I blocked a butt slam and I beat his follow up butt slam every time. I don’t know how reliable this is since it’s entirely possible that the butt slams were not executed as soon as possible but I figure any extra tools against Honda should be cherished.
P.S. I HATE Honda…
What happens after you land? Is he able to even hit you or do you land too far away for him to retaliate? I would think that since he loses his charge, you’d be safe unless you were in the corner.
my horrible short term memory doesn’t allow me to remember the details of the match. he loses his horizontal charge but he could still keep his vertical. i think i remember poking him with cr.lk to push him in position for me to cross him up with j.mk/j.hk. i’m pretty sure i never ended up in the corner but i’d imagine it wouldn’t make too much of a difference since you land well before he does. i’d imagine a smart honda would eventually neutral jump j.hp…which you can bait and punish with hp.knuckle.
edit: unrelated. i noticed Edma resetting the opponent after an ex seismic with j.lk and crossing under. he’d proceed with the short-short-strong bnb which the opponent wasn’t ready for. i think he had enough time to walk back under the opponent before he even landed. if he did, i smell an opportunity for the first true reset shenanigan in this game.
C.Viper has Ibuki resets! :party:
Honda does indeed have a few problems with the jumping HK after blocking his first splash. Some people try to either do Oicho throw or try to hit with a normal, but realize they lost their charge so they are at times defenseless. Only one guy I played online was smart and kept his vertical charge, so he just did another splash.
I think if you dash when he does as he is at his apex, you should be able to dash under to get out of trouble. I don’t know if you can actually hit him though.
Lot of friggin’ Honda players online lately. It’s making my ranking go down. :sad:
So yeah, Viper is really hard to play. I wish I read this thread before playing the game. I was BK’ing Gief all day and wondering why his Lariat had so much priority. /shrug
I think after a few more days of hard practice, I might have something to work with here.
I’m having a crapload of problems against your typical Ken and Shoto players who do one special move after another.(Blocked EX.Shoryuken,Shoryuken when he lands,Jumping in with a EX Hurricane Kick etc)Every time I try to punish these with a poke or proper thunder knuckle I either trade hits or get hit first.
As for AAs is it best to go for HP Thunder Knuckle against non stop jumpers?I find it constantly trading hits with a Shoto Jumping HK or Hurricane Kick.I’m also having a hard time trying to get decent hammers on these non stop jumpers too so it’s making the move useless unless I get a FA counter and combo it.
Any small tips on these type of players?I see them whiffing on tons of shit and it’s making me insane on how hard of a time I’m having trying to punish them properly.
What’s the strategy against Boxer? It feels like I have to work really hard for damage, and it all gets negated with a single headbutt -> ultra/super. His lows seem to out prioritize any lows I have.
So far, I’ve been doing okay by reaction ex flame kicks on rush punches, but other than that, a single mistake and my entire bar is gone (or so it seems lol).
Your first problem is simply a matter of timing. You’re not hitting Ken in the few frames you have to punish him before he hits the ground. You’re attacking too late and getting SRK’d again. Set up a training mode recording session where Ken is doing the same thing (EX shoryuken, shoryuken etc.) and practice punishing him on the way down after the first SRK. That should get you in the mind set for doing it during real battle. Punishing a jump in EX hurricane might be a bit tougher but it’s better to block it than to get hit if you don’t know how to punish it.
Second problem… is you’re probably getting hit real deep with shoto jump ins. If you time your HP knuckle early you should be able to beat a jump in by the time they press a button. Similar to Guile’s flash kick though the priority for beating actual jump ins is limited. If the person does a jump in right on top of your HP knuckle you’ll be lucky if it trades at best. Remember though that trading isn’t that bad because it still knocks the person on the ground and if they were really high in the air…do it again or if you have time do Ultra or super as they’re falling down.
I think C.Viper’s best straight up move for keeping people out of the air is well…straight up (vertical) j.HK. Most of C.Viper’s jumping attacks are rather short ranged on purpose (to make up for her strong abilities with the burning kick) so you’re kinda limited normally in what moves Viper has that will beat stuff air to air. Yet the best way to consistantly beat someone jumping all the time with Viper is to beat them to the air by jumping straight up with HK. The range on this move is nuts and works more consistently than just hoping for a traded HP knuckle on a deep shoto jump in.
This also works well when trying to bait people who are grounded and are looking to quickly move in on you. You can time it so that when someone dashes in or jump in you land on top of them with the vertical j.HK and can combo into c,MK, c.MK, c.HP into whatever depending on what range you hit them at.
EDIT: Now that I think about it I’ve also been working on using air burning kick for AA purposes as well. The timing is tricky though because there’s only a VERY short period of time in the air where a burning kick has real priority. That’s the point where Viper’s flame first really bursts out of her feet as she’s doing the kick and has her feet pointed at the camera. This short window is where the burning kick has the most priority and is how you can utilize it to beat wake up shoryukens when it is super jump cancelled (usually with LK burning kick). It’s more or less a psychic AA but if you understand exactly where and when your opponent is going to attack in the air you ca utilize this window to beat out much anything in the air. Like I stated though…your timing has to be perfect or you get hit for free. It works well if you can get it to hit slightly above or slightly below the person as they are in the air.
Yea I have the same problem while playing online. Those shotos whoop me up. I’ve never really got serious into a fighter though. I’m getting there with SF4. I finally learned how to FADC lol. Took me forever. I can’t wait for my SE stick and sanwa parts to get in, its hard as heck to play with the ps3 controller and consistently hammer, HJ, BK correctly for me. I always hit the hammer but miss the HJ or BK part. Its frustrating.
My first night with Viper was very positive on launch day.
I was mixing things up well and had a pretty high win ratio for playing a game i’d never played before… with a character i’d never played before… who is obscenely technical.
Then last night I hit the wall of stupid. Suddenly I was just getting reversal DP’d to hell and scrub Kens were just getting lucky on the most amazing shit. I realized how many holes I have in my gameplay against the normal scrubby scrubness.
Besides baiting out DP’s on wakeup, what really good options do I have against a downed opponent who’s proven he can at least semi-reliably reversal? I feel like I’m losing all of my momentum against players with a good DP that they spam almost indiscriminately. Sure, I can bait it out, but then I’m not pressuring whatsoever, and I feel like I’m not playing Viper the way she should be played. Any thoughts, those of you who’ve lived this game longer than I?
This is important because out of the 43 matches I played last night, 36 of those were Ken or Ryu. Awesome.
Also, I’m definitely feeling the Ibuki depression. You know what I’m talking about. You play technical and you play pretty solid, and you keep wearing down your opponent’s life with clever tricks, but in the end you just eat a random meaty or DP that somehow leads to you dying in a match where you absolutely outworked them. =) shakes fist Such a long road ahead of me.
There’s nothing depressing about using Ibuki as long as you don’t care about winning. :lol: I personally think C.Viper is better than Ibuki just for little things here and there that she has that Ibuki didn’t in 3S.
Yeah I also love how there’s 25 characters in this game (almost as much as there was in the first CVS) and people still seem to figure that the only characters worth learning to use are Ryu and Ken. I mean hell…you could even use Sagat he’s the best one on the board son. LOL. I guess Ryu and Ken’s moves are easy to learn and provide instant gratification. Especially the dragon punch. Beats a lot of stuff and whenever it hits you knock the person far away and get to jump in. Fun stuff. Hurricane kick is fun to spam and gets you around the screen.
I’ve been successful using TK’d LK burning kick at the right point on wake up to beat regular SRK’s. I think EX SRK has too much invincibility to beat with TK’d LK burning kick but I’ll have to check training mode to make sure. Either way if you scare an EX dp out of someone they waste meter and are forced to focus cancel which burns all their meter. If they don’t…they fly up in the air and it’s free damage time.
EX dp’s yeah…be scared of those. If they’re just flinging out regular DP’s…TK’d burning kick on them all day. On top of them, cross them up…whatever. Time it right where the flame initially comes out right over their DP and it should beat it clean.
can someone explain to me at what times you find it best to use seismos. ive tried when the opponent fireballs, on wake ups if i knock them down, through comboing. wich i can barely get to work most times. but between that move, and the seismo HJC into Burning kick i cant get to connect either, closest i got on that was medium kicking the person on the way up with the HJ. maybe someone can give me a good way to do that too?
Does anybody else play weird when they play offline games after playing online for a while? Whenever I get offline and play my friends. I find my self using online “lag” strategies and I totally get raped for a while… Anybody else experience this?