instead of posting about how you dont agree with my opinion how about you post why all you said she has less options what does that mean exactly…
also she isnt a lesser version of herself actually shes a different but better version of herself it just so happens that this version doesn’t use BKs as much and one of these days I will get around to explaining it when i get the time unfortunately I just won another super tournament and I gotta go to sleep to win another one in 7 hours =/ but yea I hate being a dick but yea you flat out dont know what your talking about imo sorry
PS - for the record I never really bashed viper actually I said I dont like the feel of uncertainty that I have when I play her and my epiphany came by when I started to play differently the results were the same just the feeling was different I never said OMG SHES SO BAD I CANT DO BLAH BLAH BLAH
PS2 - also I love how you call what I do for the forums “crumbs” what character do you main I would love to see the resident top player in there talking like I have here people like you are ridiculous
I honestly believe that flash is better than uryo, but thats just me… Anyways, how is her bk different in this version? Im dying to know!!! Does is it have something to do with focus attacks?
I don’t want to continue a flame war either, only thing I was getting at is that it was nice to have bk options and frame traps, its cheesy, but losing it gives her less options. The fact that she does better is just a byproduct. Calling folk pawns ( just another demeaning tone like you do constantly) was never directed to you, you just took it the wrong way.
Viper has never sucked and she definitely doesn’t suck now, in fact, I’ve been doing much better overall. I personally think her biggest buff is her dmg not changing much while everyone else got nerfed. Comparatively effective hit points vs vanilla is one of the best buffs ever imo.
Its just kind of sickening seeing the dick riding ppl do every time you say something.
And this is all i’m going to say about this, a direct quote from you
"I’ll be at FR but I Probably won’t be playing Viper** because shes really bad **and I’m tired of working so hard in every match up risk and reward is retarded with her I’m going back to my nature which is do nothing and play solid most likely lol "
ptb - no one was talking shit to flash, just his subjects…originally.
oh, i main viper, I don’t really read other character forums so I cannot attest to that. =[
According to this burn kicks are definitely down on plus frames by a huge margin. It’s basically from LK to HK -2, -1, 0. Grounded HK burn kicks are effectively 50/50’s now instead of plus 2. MP knuckle on hit/block is the same though which is good.
Strangely enough c.MP frame data is listed the same as it was in vanilla. The recovery on c.MP is definitely visibly quicker than it was in vanilla. Though this frame data is reported to be based on a non final version of the game so yeah.
EDIT…yeah I read that wrong. That’s only for the grounded burn kicks (which doesn’t really matter unless you’re fighting a grappler or someone with a sub 3 frame reversal. Yeah seems the aerial ones are still the same according to the data but the data is old so we’ll see. In Vanilla grounded burn kicks
its good to know sdome of my testing was accurate. but i think this may not be the final version, because c.mp was change yet none of those were reflected here.
i played super only a couple of times and i think the nerfs to her bk were done in good taste so you can play viper the RIGHT way (at least for me)! none of that BK spam…BKs were meant to be set-up specially the ones that crosses up IMO, that way you can mix it up with her godly jump rh!
in vanilla i never really relied on her BKs, relying on BKs gets you get killed that much faster. Buffs to her ground game causes you to not rely on BK. so i guess viper is a better overall, especially with the nerfs to other chars, though some match-ups still remain braindead stupid! U2 rocks! not
Ok, Flook stated that MP TK is now +0 on hit and -2 on block, only 1 of these #s can be correct because after testing MP TK I found out Viper can still connect a c. mp after a counter hit MP TK which means that MP TK is at least +2 on hit and I also tested Chun supering MP TK on block however Ryu was not able to SRK it on block. So MP TK is indeed -2 on block and on hit is at least +2 I would guess it’s still +3 personally based on how easy it is to connect the c.mp after a CH MP TK.
Prima lists mp tk as -2/+3 which I tend to observe too. (via gief reversal spd testing for the -2, and counter hit for the +3, definitely not 1-frame tight)
And I haven’t observed a huge decrease of frame advantage on blocked jumping bk. Using bk in okizeme is still possible, though frame traps are a bit tighter after…
Frontal BK spam, jumped or not, has always been stupid, will always be.
The numbers i have posted in this thread are accurate based on the build we had to work with. The fact that my speculation about mp tk was incorrect is a good thing. Generally how the changes happened were universal numbers for block and hit, and that wasn’t the case for the mp and lp tks, and to be honest, i just looked at the block changes and assumed about the hit, so my bad on that one. Cr. mp is the same speed, it just had a great hitbox buff, which is why it’s better. Everything feeling faster is just placebo.
im pretty sure i saw the prima guide in real life and it didnt have data for the old characters only the new ones and if you compare that data to the old data im sure its exactly the same (example zangief and chuns standing strong or kens fireball which have been changed for sure) so yea until the mook comes out i dont believe anything heh
nice quote me saying shes bad isnt really crying about her…to say I complain like anyone else is pretty stupid considering I rarely lose to begin with and I never really say anything specific about her like most people tend to do so im gonna say your full of shit anyway probably done posting this is annoying and is pretty much the reason why I tend to not post so much so I guess good luck with viper
Anyone notice that they fixed st. fierce sjc ultra 1 on sagat and honda? It works every time now =) In vanilla, the ultra would always whiff which was complete BS.
The thing about the Prima frame data website is that they recycled the old frame data. They only tested the moves they suspected had changed, like mp TK.
Really? Is that how we did it? Neat. Guess i wasn’t there when we were doing it. Weird.
And yes, HP TK is a typo. MP and LP are both -1 on block. Can’t really give an accurate number on aerial moves because of different heights it could be blocked/hit