Having her at -2 IS punishable, just with a small amount of the cast, chun, gief, hawk, hakan…
its not the spamming part thats the problem, its the offensive advantage that u lose along with losing frame adv.
aside from her c.mp, what is better in this version of viper?
her c.mk is not fixed, i tested the distance out as well.
viper is def weaker, bk stuff and tk stuff doesn’t really matter, you wont be beating/losing to anyone b/c of that stuff. although it was nice from time to time. Back throw nerf hurts alot IMO, safe jump is so gdlk, hard to time now. Other than that, viper is same old shit different day, w/ less dmg.
Its sad to think that capcom might have made these nerfs based on really bad player feedback. Though I guess its even more sad that there are still Viper players out there doing c.mp xx mptk x good game.
I like to think capcom knows what they are doing, and while these nerfs don’t cripple her, they sure as hell don’t help her any. Those two little nerfs should have been accompanied by two very minor buffs: the god damn full range on her c.forward, and unthrowable FPTK. Seriously, reading all the hear-say these last few weeks about whats actually going on with her, I was very glad to hear someone say they fixed FPTK so it was unthrowable, and c.forward got a little bit more range. Now that its released its just downright depressing to see that they did fuck all with her but chop her frame advantage down. well done.
As far as footsies go, its never been Viper’s thing and it obviously never will be. She was always meant to be different and dynamic from the rest of the cast, and capcom just doesn’t want to give her decent footsies let alone ST quality normals. This is okay though, when I think of her footsies all i’m really thinking about is Ryu. The Ryu match up is just one of those matches you desperately feel the need for a decent ground game, but funny enough its not her hardest match up. I’ll take a top notch Ryu over a top notch Honda any day of the week. Honda is by far her hardest match up, and really one where footsies aren’t going to turn the tide in our favor, or even help much at all. When you think about it, the people with good footsies are the decent match ups for her. Its the ones that don’t involve footsies at all that are her worst matches. So I say fuck buffing her footsies, just give me my god damn unthrowable TK & proper hitbox on c.forward, and i’ll deal with the rest.
Bleh! Don’t mind me =p I was just looking for a real change.
I don’t know anymore, I’m just gonna wait until I get my hands on the game. There are too many conflicting comments.
Hey Can anyone post up the Free Dash FFF combo??? Like a video showing their hands doing it slowly? I CAN do the free dash but not all the time…Some times I would just get FADC charging up no dash…I see some ways are DB,UF,MP+MK+F…or the tiger-knee motion MP+MK+F…and I see the one in the Prima Guide (yes these guides are crap but hey Imma collecter!) where it says D,then U together with MP+MK…what Ive tried are the Tiger-knee motion style and DF,DF,UF +MP+MK…all of these obviously after the EX seismo…I can tell its a lot easier in super…So can you guys help a fellow Viper player out?
^
I’ll see what I can do.
Thanks Ryuga…much appreciated 
Oh also when i try it, I either get a dash with used bar, a Back dash, and/or regular super jump (I figure for the this one Im doing too early or too late)…So yeah Thanks to anyone that can help…
So Viper has no frame traps after blocked mp.TK? Does jab spam stuff her all her specials?
If you’re getting used meter, then your meterless SJC fadc is too early. If you’re getting a back dash - wtf. If you get a super jump then your meterless SJC fadc is too late.
No more frame traps due to scrubs who can’t block. This is true. It also means you’re just gonna have to be more creative and conscious about your gameplan. Personally, i like that it’s not a frame-trap anymore. Should make it easier to condition your opponents for baiting easier. Her changes give her more options for damage, i think. Just use your brain and think about how her changes can work to pay off for you. If you want a mindless auto-pilot offense full of frame advantage, go play Ibuki.
Was it possible in vanilla to backdash out of crouching mp/mk—>mp TK???
^
I’ll test that out now.
EDIT: Up close, you can’t, but from farther away, you can. Might depend on how good your backdash is too but generally, as long as it’s not right up close, you can backdash away.
yea once u get the game try things out.
The distance i tested with Viper’s c.mk was based on hitting ryu twice with c.mp, then in vanilla it would just whiff. same with ssf4
As for offensive pressure you’ll notice a few things lost for sure.
Before when i hit rose with mp tk, i get a +3 adv, the rose player will be tempted to c.mp (4 frames), my c.mp (5 frames) would stuff that. Now it is not the case, i cannot beat her c.mp, either her c.mp got boosted to 3 frames (doubtful), or we lost 3 frames or more on mp tk on hit.
Also test out ground lk bk and sj hk bk on gief when he blocks, free spd!
I agree with DJ that the animation for the BK’s seems a lot slower. FFF seems slower though i didnt’ adjust my timing too badly.
C.mp is better, but not too significant on my level of play.
SJC ultra is easier.
her damage output is reduced quite a bit, as with a lot of the cast. Just pay attention to ur FFF’s and sjc ultras and look at your opp’s bar, it doesnt go down as fast.
Her links are still unsafe
Her back throw puts u at a further distance, not sure good or bad?
Not only does she feel sluggish but a couple of methods of getting in bk and tks are not really viable methods anymore. You gotta rely more on zoning, footsies, and seismo games. Which isnt exactl the best method with viper, footsies? zoning with seismos? she has a difficult time with those.
But once u go on the offense and start hitting them with bk mixups, insta bk’s she feels somewhat the same. Its only when the opp is good enough to block then you feel the disadvantage.
I agree with too much frame adv, but i expected 1 or 2 frame reduction…not 6 on hk bk, and 3 on mp tk on hit.
Having said all that, a part of me is glad that not any noob can just pick her up now and spam bk and tks. Its just unfortunate that we havbe to give up this decent advantage but for nothing to gain really.
Like my complaint above with the easy sjc ultra, im all for skillz, but frame traps and frame adv is a good tool in the game.
Seriously? Well, if that’s the case, replace cr.mp with throw after you hit them with MP TK and see if she can interrupt that.
DevilJin how did you manage to play around with ultra 2 and not want to slap the hell out of everyone that had something to do with it’s development. in a combo it’s fine, missing about 80-100 dmg on average, but this “oh it’s an ultra you can just use” really just makes me cringe, guess i have to get used to it. /end rant.
I do have a question for you guys though. what are you doing after F+MP? When i used it i get tossed right after and something is telling me that that’s not part of the animation.
Nowadays, after f.mp, if it’s blocked up close, I may follow up with Ex Seismo or attempt a quick BK cross-up to stop grab attempts.
Did you test it on both versions or just vanilla? The reason I asked is cause I was playing a chun and cody player yesterday and he was backdashing the mp tk after blocking crouching mp and irc I was in close most of the time I saw this happen. Please test and confirm if you can thx. Don’t have access to game atm.>mp tk
i recorded my self doing c.mp>mp tk and did c.mp right away
then used rose…and she’d win almost everytime…
i specifically paid close attention to her adv on sf4 to test it on ssf4…but than again my tests could be wrong…someone can confirm this?
the second ur opp blocks ur bk or tk…well even get hit by tk…get the fuck outta there…ur gonna get thrown, jabbed, dp’d…
to advance in now…is not as easy as bk and tks…
i used to adjhust my bk trajectory to get in…dunno about doing that anoymroe…
u definitely need to be more patient…which is fine…just makes it more of a waiting game…
oh and yes ur hp tk can still get thrown…not sure if it has improved…or wishful thinking by others…
i havent tested out the throw timing…
iirc i think u can backdash in vanilla
I played against some guys who like to mash through moves yesterday and I made made them dizzy several times with c.mp>mp tk because they were trying to pull off ultras, ex moves and god knows what else after mp tk hit them. I worked that c.mp>mp tk until it made them fearful enough not to try retaliating prematurely. I pretty sure that if the opponent does a reversal with certain moves for eg cammy, ruy it will still hit viper if she tries attacking even though the mp tk hit. But then you can bait those things for big damage