:looney:
And people reckoned that his Ultra 2 was gonna be trash.
viper, slow startup and recovery on footsies, now her specials. she has no bks or tks…
but wait, she has c.mp…which can combo…into??..tk…haha
Flash has been working on counter hit setups for c.MP. Since c.MP is better technically it should be easier for Viper to force counter hit c.MP’s which DO combo into EX seismo and apparently counter hit c.MP allows u to link into c.HP when then of course goes into crazy shit. Gonna have to mess around with the new footsies more when the game comes out. Though special moves suck ass against Rufus U2 I’ll say that much. Unfortunately Viper’s special moves will still inevitably be a big part of her pressure/zoning game and now with U2 Rufus can control our ability to zone his dives with seismos and MP knuckles. Gonna have to play like Rog in that matchup for sure. Just spamming normals.
I was one of the only people that saw the light in Rufus ultra 2 back when everyone else was just remembering how gdlk it was to combo into ultra 1 for untech knockdown off of the scratch of your back. When I was looking at the ultra animation back during the las vegas build I noticed immediately that the ultra looked just like an ultra version of his EX galactic tornado. I could tell right then and there that the ultra was probably going to suck up fireballs from crazy ranges but all anyone wanted to do was “combo into it” cuz that’s what SFIV is all about. Comboing into your ultras. Capcom knows that’s what ruined the last game so they’re trying to add more variety in the new game.
Obviously that worked out for Rufus so far and well our Ultra 2 is literally scrub status. :sad:Though at least Ultra 1 is still gdlk. :lol:
Viper vs T Hawk as i found out today is a total pain. Pretty much everything she has will either trade or get beaten out by Hawk’s massive hitbox. U2 does beat out everything else he has but it’s silly to just throw out U2.
An early far HK will beat out Condor Spire but its kinda hard to time. I don’t find Seismos to be that useful since most of the time he’s either holding down back or mid air and Burning Kicks and TKs will trade or get beaten most of the time. Part of me thinks that it shouldn’t be this hard, but this is just like the gief matchup except now gief is a mexican indian jumbo jet.
Glad I’m not the only one noticing this. It feels like the tech timing is slower or something.
!!! Yeah man I’m getting the same. The tech has to be super late…It usually just ends up with me just teching on reaction now. On that note, the first problem I had was teching too early 
I’m positive it’s easier to reaction tech and harder to OS tech now…
Disagree on the Hawk match up…I thought it was gonna be another nightmare matchup but so far it’s pretty fun.
I only pick U2 in matchups where U1 doesn’t happen (Blanka + Honda) but I land U1 on Hawk quite often. He tends to lose A2A against most options. Movement is a problem for him, as Condor Spire doesn’t move him across the screen very far, so it doesn’t really kill the seismo game Also - Hawk dive kills EVERYTHING you have in the air if he gets it started but provided you’re above him it’s ok. They’re mega unsafe but trade with HPTK (not in your favour at all) and have fast recovery (people have been whiffing die into 360) On block you get a free seismo, and if you find the whiff spacing, you can punish with cr. HP, LP Seismo or low MK depending on range etc…
His U2 is good but very specific about where it hits, it’ll hit you out of the air and hurt but right now it’s like Hakan’s ultra in that you just learn not to jump sometimes. The problem occurs when he’s using U1 and 50/50’s up close with DP/360/720. You really can’t afford to eat any of them and if he lands U1 you say GG and leave the system…I pretty much just rinsed that mixup at the Manchester event and snagged top 16
He has the giant hitbox thing where you can chain infinite seismos if he low guards but that isn’t so useful.
T. Hawk really isn’t that bad. All of his options to come at you are unsafe. Sounds like you don’t know the matchup and are just losing alot of mindgames and getting bullied around.
As far as techs, not really sure, haven’t played vanilla for a couple of months. I remember the general timing of everything feeling slightly off when i started on Super tho.
The changes in Super really help my style of play, as i really didn’t spam specials in Vanilla, i stayed grounded alot, and actually won alot of footsies with Viper, and just baited and punished hard. Now her tools only help my game, i don’t have to change styles, like the other frantic special-spamming vipers. Overall i think Viper will probably come in between 5 and 7 on the tier list.
How good is T hawk’s DP? I heard it was really bad do he might be free on wakeup. And is his command throw 1,2,4,etc frames? If it’s really fast like gief’s we may have trouble being safe against him with the added recoveries to BK and TK.
i had ryu escaped the grasp of rufus u2 after he jumped by doing ex hurricane kick after the ultra flash. i’m sure viper can find some way to avoid his u2 in the air too.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying though. If there’s going to be characters that pretty much reduce my character to footsies then I’m going to bring back my Alpha 2 love Rose into the joint. She was always one of my favorite characters but I dropped her after Alpha 2 because in all of the other games they toned her down like shit and of course tone down fighter iv was no exception. Vanilla feels like such a beta test now compared to super. If I’m going to be forced to use footsies against characters like Rufus then I might as well do it with a character that has gdlk footsies instead of just decent ones.
Well if she can burn kick over it after the ultra flash then that should help but there’s literally no whiffing or applying burn kicks near him at all once he has it since he can see the start up frames (only a nice long 23 frames) and just activate on reaction. Pretty much every jump in u do on him will have to be normal based. This ultra will further change and limit the way Viper has to fight Rufus when she already had to change her play style so radically against him to begin with.
It sounds like it’s my unfamiliarity with the matchup is what’s killing me. What do I have when it comes to air to air as his j. HP seems to either beat forward jump HK if he does it early, or trades.
My biggest issue so far is that blocking a Condor Spire seems to be game over for me. Is it not punishable on block with anything Viper has because so far its either been get 360’d, or get DP’d for trying to jump out.
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/05/stamina-stun-dash-and-jump-rankings-street-fighter-4/
C.Viper has 900 Health.
close standing mk seems to hit higher vertically, not sure if it’s enough to be effective as an anti-crossup though.
it’s always been a good anti cross-up. It’s one of my favourite moves. It was best used when they jump right in front of you attempting a cross-up, HPTK used to hit at 45 degree angle and could be avoided by jumps from a certain distance. It’s in those situations that Close Standing MK was great. If it is true that it hits higher that’s great. But I feel it was a really good under-used tool she’s always had. I haven’t used it in Super yet because her new HPTK has a different angle that hits more straight up and seems to have a hitbox behind the move itself, meaning that it appears the opponent has already jumped over the TK yet they still get tagged. But any help in the Anti-Air department is always good. 
Couldnt u bait Rufus and Fuerte’s Ultra 2. I am surprised no on talked about Fuerte’s U2 BS. Reminds me of Breathless a bit.
Ii suppose baits won’t last too long tho but if u can bait that ultra then he does less damage per dive kick.
Rufus has an interesting option to go with U1 or U2 on Viper.
Hawk’s SPDs are the same speed as Gief’s, but do about half as much damage. After you block a Condor Spire, you have several options, which he has a counter for each, but has to guess specifically right for each option. You can block (loses to SPD), jump away (loses to Hawkercut), backdash (loses to a variety of normals, and another condor spire), HP TK (loses to blocking), or throw (loses to F. Hawkercut, EX Condor Spire, SPD).
Another note on Hawk’s command throws and uppercuts:
lp SPD is by far the most dangerous, as it leaves him in a Gief-like wake-up position, with better options. His splash is better, he gets more damage if the splash hits, and my own personal favorite setup, he can f. condor spire right over your corpse for a crossup right as you wake up, and hit with a cr. lk into EX Hawkercut -> EX Condor Dive for 380 damage. Fun times.
mp is more or less useless.
hp is the most damage, but leaves him 3/4 screen away.
EX is like Abel’s, and is hit invincible, no armor.
As for his uppercut, lp reaches the furthest horizontally, and is used as a combo ender. HP is the most invincible and is his anti-air. His EX combines properties from both. It reaches as far as his lp, with the invincibility of his hp, hits twice, and he can choose to use another meter for EX Condor Dive out of it.
And DevilJin…Rose got alot better in Super. Not sure if you’ve played around with her or not, but she’s fairly scary now. Cr. hp is infallible anti-air, Soul Throw is crazy good, and you can hp reflector -->FADC Soul Throw now. Soul Satellite is a bitch when activated correctly. The level of ultra charge determines how long the orbs are out, the orbs do the same damage at all times. 120dmg/30 chip per orb. Her crossup is crazy good now, just like Cammy’s. They both hit like Abel’s now, it’s stupid.
Oh I’ve heard about Rose. I think she’s near top tier. People have been talking about half life Ultra 2 combos with her. Plus with Soul Satellite she always forces you to block 2 cross ups at once. She forces you to block her j.MK cross up then the orb in a quick succession. So you pretty much have to guess when she crosses u with that ultra.
Whoa wait, Soul Satellite does what?
Damn, Rose got hella beefy. o_o
Yeah it’s like u have to block one way then immediately the other way to successfully block her crosses with that ultra.
Sup guys i been gone for a while but i’m back. I have SSF4 and well i found some things some might find it crucial but i think it’s just an annoyance. i’m noticing this trend of Ex Seismo xx sjc BK xx ultra 1 fuck ups on the new characters only so far.
T. Hawk is fine but i’m sure his size has something to do with that
Cody: Late Bk’s make him completely change direction and what i think are well placed ones are either:
A. blast hits and kicks miss
B. blast misses but when he stands the kicks hit
Dee Jay: with him you have to do late ones and do the ultra motions the opposite way from normal since he’s behind you after the BK hits, the game auto-corrects for you but just a heads up. well placed ones have the same effect they have on cody
Adon: well placed BK’s cause the the blast from the ultra to hit but the kicks miss, late bk’s miss him altogether.
Guy: Late bk’s can knock him the opposite way like with cody taking away your chance to ultra and it seems like even if you’re a little late with it you you’ll get that cross up effect where he ends up behind you for just a lil bit and then he falls back over. i can’t get the exact timing to make it happen but if you do the motion ultra motion in his direction the game will auto-correct when he goes to the other side or you can be badass and just wait for him to get over to the other side and do it the way you would have in the 1st place.
Hakkan: is fine for the most part but i have gotten few bk’s to cause him to be behind me for asecond then come back over. when i tried to ultra it was auto corrected but missed.
Dudley: he’s fine for the well timed and late bk’s
Makoto: Late bk’s will whiff.
ibuki: Late Bk’s will whiff
Juri: late bk’s cause her to land behind you so do the ultra motion the opposite way ASAP.
Edit. i just did the low trajectory super jump bk, over juri, crossed her up and was able to ultra her… midscreen. but the problem is the spacing is strict so if you’re not close enough it hit like a normal bk would and if you’re too close she’ll go the way you just came from.