C.viper Arcade / DLC changes SSF4

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
61

Agreed that Cammy match up depends on how low her CS can be done. Overall, I feel it will still be bad for Viper because her frame capabilities with her normals have been increased so she won’t be completely reliant on TKCS for CH setups but she still has EX TKCS to do that. More meter management for Cammy players but still very deadly once she has it.

Ken, Guy and Fei are going to be even worse match ups. Sakura will be worse by nature of buffs but I don’t see the match up dramatically changing. Unless c.Forward becomes really good like Ryu’s c.Forward then Sakura’s footsie game is going to be really good against Viper.

No change to the Chun-Li match up, imo. Less damage and stun is very minute in how those normals works. The start up and hit boxes haven’t changed on those moves and those were more about frame traps and controlling space then anything else.

Ryu is + to Viper and Balrog will still be a bad match up. His nerfs don’t seem to be signifcant enough that it changes the dynamics of the match up.

Juri’s boost in walk speed needs to be visually seen. It could be a minute boost and nothing overly significant to change anything or it could be a good boost in which case I would think it would be a - for Viper because Juri has arguably some of the best pokes in the game. Potentially she’ll have a bigger output in damage with those Fuhajin buffs but again we’ll have to see.

Rufus isn’t that much of a + to Viper. Her oki game won’t get shut down against U2 anymore but it just means they’ll go back to U1 and the match up will be the same as it was in Vanilla pretty much.

Cody will get other frame trap tools but he’s also been a strong frame trap character. The overall dynamic of the match up shouldn’t change that much.

62

Sakura will definitely own Viper after this. She already has great everything versus Viper, and now she is getting much more comboability and frame advantage, + a better fireball and tatsu. She will definitely be a 6-4 against Viper.

I think Cammy will be 6-4 undoubtedly, but maybe not 7-3 anymore. I think her increased frame advantage and brutal combos once she does land EXTKCS will still own us.

MP, c.FP, FP, Cannon drill is going to hurt like a mother.

63

Pretty new to Viper but lets see… U2 buff (its looks good why isnt the dmg good) standing fierce kick… id like to use it as a better anti air. c.mk improvement. i guess pretty much most of her normals but i can only dream, a tiny just small super dmg buff. and make her bks armor break only agaisnt bison,rog,honda O_o lol a mans allowed to dream right :slight_smile: didnt play viper in vanilla but after going back and playing with her on it yeah those bks where alot better how bout capcom hooks us up for all the work viper takes n bring those back.

64

Ryu: (+ Viper) From 6-4 Ryu to probably a 5.5-4.5 or 5-5 matchup.

Rog: 6-4 rog which will remain the same

Cammy: (=Viper if she cant do delayed strike) (-viper if she can do delayed strikes)
6-4 for cammy now, (prob a 7-3 for cammy if she can do delayed strikes), ( If she cant maybe 6-4 still, because of her footsies in this one.

Guy: 5-5 now, which i disagree, but will be 6-4 for guy now with his buffs

Ken 5-5 now, which i think is 5.5-4.5 for ken, but with the buffs it will be (6-4 ken)

Vega: pretty much remain at 5-5

Rufus: 6-4 now, prehaps to 6-4 or 5.5-4.5 for rufus

Fei: 6-4 for Viper which IS WRONG even now!!! it will be (6-4? 7-3? for fei)

Juri pretty much remain the same at 5-5

Chun Li 6-4 for viper now, but i think its closer to 5.5-4.5 now, either way i think it’ll be around the same 5.5-4.5 for viper.

El Fuerte at 5-5 now, and with some nerfs and guessing character like elf, 5-5 still sounds about right.

Sakura : is 5-5 now, perhaps 5.5-4.5 for sakura in AE

Cody 5-5 now, but will be 5.5-4.5 or 6-4 Cody with 3f jab, 3f c.lk)

Honda from 7-3 to 6.5-3.5 for honda)

Gouken from 5-5 to maybe 5.5-4.5 for gouken?)

Rose 5-5 now, but i think it should be 5.5-4.5 now, either way, i think the match will be 5-5 now.

Ibuki 6-4 for ibuki, but i feel this is 5-5 now, but with her changes perhaps 5-5 in AE

Blanka: 6-4 for blanka now, maybe 5.5-4.5 blanka in AE

Abel i think abel is 5.5-4.5 now maybe 6-4…but the stats say 5-5 and i think he WILL be 5-5 in AE

Gen i disagree with 6-4 viper, it feels more like 5.5-4.5 for gen or 5-5. In AE and buffs i would say 6-4 for gen

Makoto: I think maybe 6-4 for viper in this one, after buffs, maybe 5.5-4.5 for koto or 5-5

Gief: Still 6-4? I have to see if hes harder or not? less knockdown opportunity, but better specails

Sagat: Possibly 5-5 still or 5.5-4.5 gat since hes strong?

Dan:6-4 for viper before but probably 6-4 for dan now since his normals are buffed so much. I dont agree with 6-4 for viper…his tatsus are annoying.

Dudley: He received quite a bit of buff… I wanna say hes not 5-5 anymore but instead 5.5-4.5 for dud.

Guile: is 6-4 now, but i think its close to 5.5-4.5 for viper…either way, it will be 6-4 for viper now with all those nerfs.

Hakan: was 6-4 in super, with all these buffs, maybe 5.5-4.5 for viper?

Seth: was 5-5 but I seriously think that his normals, health, stun ability, vortex makes this a 6-4 or 5.5-4.5 for seth

Deejay: was 5-5 but maybe now 5.5-4.5 for DJ.

Dhalsim: Will remain 6-4 for viper, not too many changes

Bison: From 6-4 bison to 5.5-4.5 bison, the normal nerfs will give viper a fighting chance

Akuma: Stays at 5-5, not too many changes

T. Hawk: from 5-5 for 5.5-4.5 for Hawk, normal and special buffs perhaps adjust this by .5

Adon:5-5 to 5.5-4.5 for adon, i personally dontt hink its 5-5 to begin with, but with noraml buffs it is now 5.5, though his wakeup might be free and might go back to 5-5???

For the above characters
Total Points and Ranking Super: 168 points
Total Points and Ranking AE: 155 points

65

In regards to the Viper-Gouken match…

I don’t think the matchup will become a bad one for Viper, but two things heavily affect it: knockdown properties on those two jumping normals and Gouken’s improved frame advantage.

This means Viper has to be a lot more careful using IA burning kicks or using SJ stuff in general…because now she risks being knocked down and being set up for Gouken’s improved offensive pressure. Imagine Honda’s nj.HP with a worse hitbox that still hits Viper out of the air, no steering properties, but knocks down airborne opponents. That’s Gouken’s nj.HP.

Idk, matchup seems like it’ll become 5.5-4.5 Gouken, maybe 6-4 if it affects things that much.

66

Updated on top

67

After seeing Makoto as the first female getting buffed to average (1000) Health, it has made me wonder if Viper doesn’t deserve a Health bonus as well. I always felt like she needed at least 950hp, since her defense is so poor. It’s obvious Capcom doesn’t really want to mess with her normals and specials much, so couldn’t this be a better way to make her more viable?
I understand characters like Chun, Akuma and Dhalsim having low Health, they get exceptional defense from their normals and ok specials like Teleport/EX SBK. And then there are Cammy and Rose with again considerably better defensive specials and normals than Viper(though Rose has it harder without U2, but still has a stronger dash) while having a good pressure/mixup game and still have higher Health then her. It just seems awkward to me. I don’t think Viper having +50 Health would make her overpowered. I think she needs this much more than some minuscule buff to an Ultra that is only viable in like 2 matchups.

68

I’m starting to wonder if viper will still be good since she is not going to get a real buff, but everyone else is getting nerfs. Wouldn’t her bad match-ups be less hard because of the other character nerfs?

69

Well i know we all want cr. MK’s hitbox fixed, i was eating kicks from the tip of my opponents toes yesterday, but the one really outrageous change i want for Viper is I’d like her overhead to have the ability to be special cancelled.

70

she will be the same lol. lots are getting nerfs, so her realyl bad matchups will be just bad, and her ok matchups now will be bad.

71

Great, so she’ll have nothing but bad matchups except maybe one or two characters? Awesome.

72

She might get more changes because Capcom isnt finished changing the characters

73

Nah they’re pretty much done, the arcade boards ship out middle of december. They may have tweaked some little things here and there that they just didnt mention, but if not, LAME.

74

So apparently theres this jap blog that has some updates of the game that the dev blogs didnt update yet

AC???4??? part13 - SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV ???BBS

You can see the translations in the forum
http://shoryuken.com/f315/ssfiv-ae-blog-changes-lets-nerf-more-stuff-game-isnt-defensive-enough-255022/index38.html

And here is viper’s changes ( I havent seen any trnaslation on viper yet)
???
???

Using Google translator
Viper
Strong lead from the pan squatting position strengthened by decision Haijanpukyanseru Urukon 2

I got excited since I saw strengthen, and strong, and squatting position.
But I looked at it closer and Urukon 2 is ultra 2, and it is essentially hit box increase to catch crouching opponents?

75

The more I look at AE changes the more I rage. Seriously all the new characters are getting buffs up the ying/yang and they already either went even with Viper or beat so now the nature of the match ups are just getting worse across the board. Seriously, some characters getting 3f normals and fixed hitboxes while Viper is still missing hitboxes are her c.forward which is 7f wtf is that shit Capcom. I just hope there are buffs to Viper that are unlisted on the dev blogs. This is just mind boggling stupid decisions on Capcoms part. The little nerfs that some of her bad match ups got didn’t change the dynamic of the match up too much. The only thing that made a difference was fixing Adon’s wake up time so our mix ups should work now.

Deejay looks like he can lame things out Guile styles but he handles the match up much better then Guile.

76

Viper is going to have so much trouble at this rate in AE :chainsaw:

77

Well its expected, I mean all we wanted was the c.mk fix, aside from that I guess its good they didnt nerf her anymore. Shes already hard to use and have lots of bad matchuips (lots more now in AE (my prediction))
Characters like cammy will be new footsies queen, koto and sakura will be pretty good.
So many characters have 3f normals.
Im thinking that viper should have 3f normals…its not like she can really link anything from jabs or shorts…or extend the hitbox of her c.lp/s.lp

I dont think its stupid, but i think because viper is already a great character and any changes to her might make her too good (is their fears). Killey, as much as I would like her to have more changes, i highly doubt it.

yea the nerfs the characters have like rog’s headbutt, doesnt make it any better.

78

???
???
It says "Ultra 2’s hitbox has been improved so you can connect U2 from a cr.hp xx SJC"
Which was already possible. No mention of paying oki with it… = no 50/50… fuuuugh.

79

I’ve already swallowed the “Viper’s not getting any real buffs” pill and washed it down with “hey at leasts she’s not getting nerfed(publicly announced anyways)” juice. I honestly thought about switching but every other character just seems boring as hell.

80

For shits and giggles I was thinking of doing a youtube video of that hitler meme about Viper but it requires more time then I’m willing to put in.

I’m already in the process of learning Akuma but he’s not really jiving with me right now so not sure if I want to stick with him or learn a different character but the rest of the cast seems very boring to me. I’ll probably play around with Yun&Yang probably emphasis on Yang because his tool set looks to fit better in SSF4 then Yun but we’ll see. Maybe they’ll be another new character that’ll catch my interest…

I’ll still play Viper because I’ve put too much work into her but damn this is really disheartening.