Busted or Bust, lets bet on who/what ends up being broke

SHUMA - ZERO

[details=Spoiler]
** Shuma Gorath (B tier on point, A tier assist):** Shuma has been a strange character. Seems to have a solid mix up game but has been touted to have some of the worst damage output for combos the game offers and really unnatural execution requirements for said combos. No real buffs to speak of that make a difference other than meter stealing command grab but…there’s so much scarier shit in this game who cares?

His mystic ray assist will still be one of the game’s best assists at least and supposedly he isn’t terrible in XF.

Spencer (A tier on point, A tier assist): One of the stranger characters of the game but always a constant threat due to his ability to convert into damage from near full screen with zip line plus assists. Has probably one of the most annoying level 1’s in the game in bionic arm that starts up at the same speed as most people’s normals with solid invincibility. He can really make you afraid to press buttons at any time. Don’t really think he needed much in buffs and he’ll still be great on point in Ultimate overall.

His zip line assist is apparently the only assist in the game that sets people in a standing position after it hits allowing for really nasty combos and mix ups. I see this having more use in Ultimate with a lot of characters.

Spider Man (B tier on point, C tier assists): Spider Man got some needed buffs but at the cost of things that probably made him more powerful than anything they gave him. Being able to OTG into super is nice now and more things to web zip off of is great but he’s still going to be generally very assist reliant and just generally not have the scary hit boxes of other higher tier characters. If he gets in he’ll still have really nasty shit but nothing that sounds super scary as of yet.

His assists will still be garbage and he’ll be a total point man.

Storm (A tier on point, B tier assists): Buffs to her point game including damage buff and fair/foul wind push pull should really help her overall gameplan. I hear they’re buffing her hit boxes on her normals too which will be great. Being able to mash hail storm for more damage and having a bigger hit box will make the kiddies rage.

Assists still solid.

Super Skrull (A tier on point, B tier assists): Going to be an even stronger point character and one of the characters that will take big advantage of air XF. Everything about him seems nothing but buffs so I really see him going up. Not quite sure about S tier for him but he’s going to be a force certainly.

Solid assists as before.

Taskmaster: (A tier on point, A tier assists): Still going to do boat loads of damage, just wont instantly kill you anymore on a hit. Still gonna have big chip on arrows and arrows super. Mostly going to be the same solid character he was before. Air XF should buff him a good bit also. No more DHC glitch and OP XF1 and this guy still has 1.1 million health? LOL.

Some of the game’s best assists as usual.

Thor (B tier on point, B tier assists): The buffs to his game overall should help his point game a bit. Still going to be pretty reliant on assists to get things done but he sounds like he’ll be more of the big tank Magneto they wanted him to be in Vanilla.

Solid assists as usual.

Trish (A tier on point, A tier assists): She will only get better in Ultimate now that she can combo off her own throws with super. Extremely annoying dive kick game that’s hard to XF guard cancel due to her ability to cancel it into 5 or 6 different aerial special moves. Faster recovery on hopscotch and peekaboo should help her lame game nicely as well.

Peekaboo will still be one of the better assists in the game and will now start up even faster for more annoyance and space control.

Tron Bonne (B tier on point, B tier assists): Her point game sounds like it will be buffed a bit but not enough to be like A or S tier good. Just better space control with servbots and faster recovery on drills. Her j.H being nerfed a bit will nerf her overall damage output after a air dash H but I guess Capcom must have thought her damage after landing a random j.H was too much.

I’ve heard people say that her drill assist will be a decent replacement assist but we’ll have to see.

Viewtiful Joe (B tier on point, B tier assists): He’s always been kind of a character that just didn’t seem to fit in Vanilla Marvel. Nearly as slow on movement as Arthur but a bit better of a rushdown game once he got in. Had solid lame game from a range but nothing like Dorm powered up with destruction or Mags spamming estaka. He was just another character that could do a little bit on both offense and defense but neither particularly scary. The dodge function will be a nice buff that ties in to how he played in the beat em up game and make him a tougher target to hit. Especially since he can’t really do a whole lot to stop random assist calls + command dashes and teleports it’ll be nice to have an extra function without Haggar to deal with such offenses.

Ok but not great assists.

Wesker (A tier on point, A tier assist): With the nerf to his health and no more anti air gun teleport combos I see him being less of the auto pilot threat he used to be in Vanilla and overall a more calculated, but still rather strong character. Still has 3 different 1 frame command grabs when he gets in and will still have some of the game’s best normals that don’t involve swords. His gun game will be less of an issue for some of the lame out characters but teleport + assist is still going to be really dangerous with Wesker. Dark Wesker is toned but will still surely be one of the scariest XF3 characters. He’s not going to be running through whole teams anymore so definitely that plus nerfs to health and gun keep him to more of a very solid character than the dominant force he used to be. No more just plinko dropping him on the back of the team and spam shit with no assists to reverse OCV a team.

OTG assist still among best in game.

Wolverine (B tier on point, C tier assists): Wolverine is looking pretty average now. He’s still going to be one of the game’s biggest threats once he gets in but without invincible berserker slash he really has no supers that blow him through zone or any movement techniques to get in that are as strong as X-23’s, Wesker’s or other rushdown type characters. With all of the lame out type characters in this game Akuma is REALLY going to be his butt buddy now to keep B Slash safe and get in. Shorter hit box on dive kick, less annoying c.L and weaker XF should keep him as a much more honest character. It seems like he’ll be heavily reliant on the speed/frame buff on berserker charge now. Before he almost never needed berserker charge but now he’s going to be running it just to stay in the game. He made the game look way too easy to play so I’m all for this.

Assists are Spider Man bad.

X-23 (A tier on point, B tier assists): A REALLY slept on character in Vanilla. People didn’t really see much in her at first because without assists Wolverine was up and down better for like every way possible. When people learned that she was a character that forced you to learn the assist system she started to shine a lot more. I probably learned more about the game playing X-23 than any other character and she’s a character of great offense and overall strength without being completely braindead like Vanilla Wolvie. When you combine her special moves with strong assist they gain much stronger attributes including left/right mix ups that are faster than Wolverines that she can do from both the ground and air, a safe command grab that covers half the screen and a a safe special move that basically turns her into a projectile that causes a spinning flyback state on air hit or crumple on ground hit. These moves with assists allow her to get across the screen much faster and she also has the game’s best wall jump which allows her to run away for a bit and then suddenly jump forward and close the gap while still being able to block and call assists.

She has one of the scariest level 3’s in the game with certain assists that will pretty much shut down the next character coming in after killing one. The nerf to XF will make it so she will be forced to run resets more before getting the meter necessary to dirt nap characters down but that’ll be worth it considering the strength and unique ability of the level 3. On top of all of that she has a Makoto/C.Viper style feint cancelling technique that allows her to be the only character in the game that can rapid fire normals other than her L’s (both the M’s and the H’s) so she can get plus 6 and 12 on block normals that allow her to stick to the opponent like glue. Very little to no pushback at all unless the opponent advance guards. Which if they advance guard an MFC’d s.H she can dash through the advance guard and hit them with another s.H before they can attack again. Allowing you to stay in without an assist and press heavy frame advantage even without an assist. Also gives her a much stronger anti air game and generally one of the scariest pokes in the game when MFC’d.

Her assists will still be solid. Ankle slice hits low and buff to crescent scythe means she’ll be able to use it as a safe, invincible crossover counter.

Zero (S tier on point, B tier assists): This guy is going to be a monster again for slightly different reasons than Vanilla. In vanilla it was more so his ability to plant you on the floor from half way across the screen and being able to build 2 meters per combo with just one assist. That’s all gone now but he’s still a walking spaceship of shit that you can barely poke at and will still be able to force near invincible mix ups on people once he gets in. His command dash has been slowed a bit but now that he can cancel all his specials into charged buster people will pretty much have to let him get in or risk getting smacked by it and possibly getting comboed or at least letting Zero get in for free. Still going to just be the man of invincible normals and great mix of offense and defense. Let’s see who’s better between him and Strider.

Still solid assists but nothing to totally go crazy about. Much better point character overall. [/details]

Added in thoughts on V.Joe. Added extra notes on Wesker.

Here’s to hoping there’s more to discover from Magneto.

Here’s to hoping that Magneto’s screen manipulation and ability to do things at literally any range and almost any angle has in fact resulted in a for-real nerf to his combo potential.

(Note from the top of my head, most likely forgot a bunch of characters in all the lists lol. Ok this list took way to long, to tired to think now lol)

S Tier predictions (No Particular order): [details=Spoiler]
Zero
Viper
Dark Phoenix
Doom;
Magneto; (Still great, + his gravitation move seems broken in itself.)
**Dante **(TBH I don’t see him being the preferred top 3-5 S tier later on, but def. high.)
Strider (Once mastered that is, so def. not at launch)

(Contenders for S tier but not as quick of a pick in the end imo. Top A/maybe S)

Vergil
Dormammu
Nova
Strange


Notes:

Dante: When mastered potential to be crazy still, won’t see him as the preferred S though (Not as quickly over Vanilla Wolvs/Phoenixs). Even a Viper’s doing better. EVO Top 16s been dropping combos none stop too, easier inputs though but no super hammer/misc crazy stuff. Tho the inputs might help him big)

Doom: (Not S tier cause he might be that good on point…no cause he’s super solid all around) Agree with this one, not top 3 as some were saying though. But top 3 Assist chars already + now crazy on point too. Dive kick that hardknockdowns + you can dashcancel it for another mixup? Yesplz.

Strider: This guy could easily not be S tier, but when mastered I feel he’s got pretty much everything (He should cause of his HP) He has low HP for a reason too, but I never really wanna ding a character cause of HP (Vipers…DPs…Ammy) when we find ways to make his lvl 3 broken too, he’s gonna be amazing
----------------------- [/details]

A/- S Tier prediction: (No Particular order/Seems to automatically make small lists lol) [details=Spoiler]

(Characters with ‘’’’ could easily be bottom S too)**

Vergil** (Overrated at the moment, won’t be SS imo)
Dormammu**
Nova** (Unfortunately lol, looks insanely easy to play/basic but crazy strong (Yay to Capcoms logic!!))
Strange**
Strider** (Before complete mastery he will not be that good + a lot will give up on this guy before that)]
Wesker*

Ghostrider (Cause of the Nova factor)
Firebrand
Hawkeye
Trish
PW

Taskmaster
X-23
Captain A
Iron Fist
Felicia

Ryu
Jill

Chris

Ammy
Akuma

Nemesis
Skrull
Storm


Notes:

Nemisis: Im thinking Hulk + More HP + The same armor/invincible super but quicker cause it hits in front + More DMG + Easier full ranged angled projectiles + A mid-screen command grab you can easily combo from + A Lvl 3 great ranged Command grab.

Strange: Very Deadly, he seems at least A+ but it just seems itlll take way to long to really setup his deadly fireball traps so for that I wont think he’ll be an immediate S’r at least/Dormammu MVC3 thing

Dormammu: Imagine Dormammu in Vanilla, a character already used by a lot of top players…now with Dormammus finally using his dark spells…+ Special cancleble -> H…+ Quicker Pillar/Holes. S tier contender for sure.

Wesker: Def. not as deadly but still looks so solid. Not top S for sure, but might be up there. Still got insane normals, great teleports, good chip, lvl 3 Wesker will still be great…good assist…crazy command grab etc[/details]

Predication for personal hate list due to me playing online a lot: [details=Spoiler]

Ghost Rider,
Nemesis/Hulk, (I just think its retarded they are giving chars MORE armor lol)
Zero,
Trish,
Overload of Captain Americas

Akuma
Overload of Ryus

Dormammu
Nova,
Any garbage invincible Assist

Air-Xfactor,
This game at times
Any beginner friendly lag abusing character with full screen ish- [/details]

Don’t fully agree with all the Vergils, he’s apparently terrible in the air. Even in DT he doesn’t have anything close to Dantes Dash H some said. Dante got Air + Ground + Range + barbuilding/dmg covered, hes only good at ground it seems and requires crazy bar. For sure amazing, just a bit overrated now it seems.

Zero has lost his corner-carry combos and loops which gave him a ton of meter to use too, yet he’s broken from day 1?

Top 5: Victor von Doom, Wesker, Doctor Strange, Dark Phoenix, and Rocket “Cable was killed, but his space pet will avenge him” Raccoon.

Bottom 3: Phoenix Wright, Lei-Lei, Wolverine

/depressed

The buffs on Zero’s cancellable buster will most likely make up for his loss of combo-ability and DHC glitch finisher.
Zero has a huge potential to get his damage off resets because he hasn’t slowed down and his normals are still as godlike as before.

Magneto has gotten slower, as the way he opened you up involved his great tridash / airdash under assist cover and fishing with :h: os throw–> loop.
Not having a scary high/low anymore, no DHC glitch starter, on top of no left/right mixups (another tool Zero has had all along), are noteable mentions.
Magnus isn’t exactly a walking hitbox of doom either.

On gravitation:
Gravitation towards pulls you closer… but can be overcome by wave dashing, and even if it works… well you’re out of the corner.
Gravitation away - well Magneto might just become a more successful play lame character. :frowning: Less swag.
Gravitation down - so I guess it can be useful. But it didn’t do damage.

Let me know if I’m missing anything obvious.

I think Vergil is going to be exposed as a gigantic fraud

I don’t know if he’ll be S tier, but Vergil will definitely be the new Dante in that damn near every team will probably try to use him for the first few months. I predict the large majority of online will be filled with Dante/Vergil/New S tier assist. And that’s gonna blow.

Nova’s gonna be the new Spencer. He’ll be slept on for the entire life of the game despite being extremely viable and possessing no real flaws. He’s got everything you can ask for in a character but, like Spencer, his lukewarm reception will ensure that most people won’t even think about using him.

It’s hard to tell if Doctor Strange will be the new Viper or the new Jill. He’s an extremely technical looking character who has all the potential in the world, but it’s impossible to tell if any of that potential will be explored in its fullest.

I think people are sleeping on Iron Fist a little. He’s got high damage, high meter building, self OTGs, an overhead, easy looking combos, and decent assists. He has trouble getting in, but so does She-Hulk and she worked out fine. I predict one person will discover the perfect assist to give Iron Fist and he’ll suddenly be RAPING everybody.

As for old characters, I think Doom’s a clear candidate for best character in the game. In addition to just being a damn solid character by himself, he’ll STILL have three of the best assists. I cannot think of a single team that won’t benefit from having Doom in it and that scares me. I mentioned that we’re gonna see a lot of Dante/Vergil teams at first and I would not be at all surprised to see Doom round it out.

Iron Fist/MODOK/Doom

Calling it right now.

He doesn’t need it to be broken. If Flocker’s matches proved anything, its that what Zero needs to be damn near untouchable is great use of his level 3 buster and assists. Being able to cancel into buster from ANYTHING makes Zero a walking wall of safe.

For fun, I hope this we bump this topic… then see what happens when the game comes out.

I want to see how much our predictions change after EVO2K12…

Looks like the 360 will be the superior version, because unlike the PS3’s blu-ray, UMVC3 will be…

all about DVD.

yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

(oh god i ate like a pound and a half of food on no sleep what is wrong with me, this joke should not be nearly this funny)

Also, mark my words, Firebrand is going to be top tier. It’s like if MODOK’s high/low game, Felicia’s kitty game, and Wolverine’s gratuitously safe mixups had a baby. And the baby could fly.

Idk why people are saying that Wolverine sucks. Lets not forget that he does stupid damage for low execution. And plus there are more assist that make him dangerous cough Drones cough and we still do not know how good or bad swiss cheese is. He is gonna be good, but not retarded.

I would agree with you, but after seeing the changes to his combos in max’s video I just can’t. A lot of his combos don’t work anymore, and he only has like 3.

Wolverine/Akuma doesn’t work anymore, but Im sure he does 600k for no effort solo and there are other assists other than Akuma shrug

IDK he really couldn’t do his shit with a lot of assists. It more so had to do with the changes to assist hit stun detioration, which limits a lot of his combos. I also saw drill claw into fatal claw not work after an “extended” combo. Capcom really went in hard on his basic combos.

god tier phoenix and phoenix wright… even with the nerfs to phoenix
top: virgil, nova, srtider, nemesis, strange
ok:hawkeye,firebrand, deadpool, mammu
bad:modok… unless you jappanese son…
OH GOD FUCK NO:chun,haggar,h-ko

B tier. He’s going to need assists to get in now and most other rushdown characters will get in better with assists and other options than he will. He’ll rape you if he gets in but with all the strong zone types in the game he’ll have to make good Akuma calls just to even get in now. No more assistless berserker slash into berseker charge OP gimmicks.

lol @ skrull being toptier:rofl:

So many dumb posts in only 3 pages but this is the umvc3 forum I’m not surprised. Anyways I’d almost be wiling to bet money that all of vanilla toptier (wolvie, viper, phoenix, wesker, mags, dante) will still dominate tournies. I hope I’m wrong but I really don’t think I am.

I don’t see any bottom or low tier characters moving up at all.