Stupid question of the day:
But what should I do against a meaty tornado throw against a good Abel? I thought reversal Raida would work, turns out it doesn’t.
Thanks for supporting my “noob-ness” 
Tornado Throw is generally a high risk move for Abel. If he is too obvious with his TT’s, you can really punish the shit out of him thanks to the long recovery.
First, TT is a throw. Specifically, it’s a command throw/grab. In that sense, it will beat any button you press unless you do a move that either
-makes you invincible
-makes you throw invincible
-makes you airborne
on the first frame. Obviously, neutral jump (throw invincible) is a good choice here, as well as backdash (~8 full invincibility). Other options you might not think of are EX kazegiri (7f? invincibility), any of the regular Kazegiris (airborne) and Hiens (airborne). Raida (throw invincibility) can work too but it really depends on the TT timing.
In practice though, your two practical options are neutral jump and backdash, and maybe EX kazegiri. Backdash is an obvious answer, but you usually can’t punish very hard since Ibuki’s backdash is slow. Usually all you can do is backdash into U2. If you make a good read however, and have great reactions or are specifically looking for a whiffed TT, then you can backdash , walk up combo. Preferably a tsumuji loop combo, though at this spacing the best you can do is probably st.MP , st.MK , single tsumuji loop.
Before I go further, I really want to emphasize how important it is that you master your 1f link jabs for this matchup. Being able to consistently tsumuji loop makes Abel’s throw game much more riskier for him. In a worst case scenario, TT will do 190 dmg, 200 stun. In Ibuki’s best case scenario, you can do almost 3 times that damage, and about 3.5 times that stun.
Anyways, once you master tsumuji loops, then you’ll really start to pwn the bad Abels. If you make a good read on a TT setup, you can simply neutral jump and come down with Ibuki’s fist to Abel’s face (ie: neutral jump FIERCE). Here are your options:
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nj.HP , st.MP , st.MK , double tsumuji loop (440dmg 636stun)
Standard double tsumuji loop punish. I usually go for this all the time without even thinking about it and just look at the spacing after the first loop as a “hitconfirm” to decide whether I can fit in the second loop or not. Single loop will usually almost always work anytime you hit Abel with st.MP and/or st.MK. -
nj.HP , cr.HP , single tsumuji loop (420dmg 683stun)
Requires an SJC on the cr.HP in place of another 1f link jab. Take note that it does 20 less damage than option #1, but like 50 more stun. -
nj.HP , cr.HP xx SJC Neckbreaker (316dmg 560stun)
Easy punish for noobs that can’t tsumuji loop. Requires an easy SJC. -
nj.HP , st.MP , st.MP , st.MK xx Neckbreaker (367dmg 570stun)
Another easy punish for noobs that can’t tsumuji loop. This one requires a few easy 2f links. -
nj.HP , cr.HP xx SJC U2 (558dmg 400stun)
For when you just want max damage, maybe to end the round. -
nj.HP , cr.HP xx JC mp.Kunai , double tsumuji loop (458dmg 740stun)
The ultimate punish for those Ibukis that have mastered her execution requirements. A whopping 740 stun pretty much guarantees you stunning Abel in the following mixup if you manage to hit him. Also note that this only works midscreen. If Abel is in the corner, you have to do JC (neutral jump) hp.Kunai, and then st.MK into single tsumuji loop (445dmg 709stun), but the dmg/stun/metergain is still pretty good.
Bad Abels or obvious Abels are easily the most fun to play against imo, simply because they are combo practice. Good Abels however, will probably rarely do TT’s until they are convinced that you will sit there trying to block or not try to escape their pressure.
Thanks for this awesome post!
I’ve been working on my tsumuji loops for quite a while now, and I’m starting to be kinda consistent. The best I could do in training is to do around 9 different combos including tsumuji loops on a row. It is still kinda hard for me to be able to pull it out in match conditions, but I always try it especially against Abel & Sagat. I’ll try to do it on a more regular basis anyway.
Again, thanks a lot Mingo, you can’t imagine how much I’ve learned thanks to your posts, these days I’m starting to be able to play… in a stable way (ie. not always attacking like I was doing before), I hope I’ll be able to improve even more
(and I just beat a 3500 PP - 12 000 BP BISON F*CK YEAH)
Get out of here with Ibuki vs. Chun-Li being anywhere near 5-5. The first round, maybe (even though I think the first round is 4.5-5.5), but the second round is definitely 4-6 or even worse. Even if you safe jump Chun-Li, which is crazy hard after throws, her EX Lightning Legs and backdash are just too good against Ibuki.
Chun-Li get’s better pressure after a knockdown too with the Kikouken into whatever she wants (including a safe overhead set-up). I playing the match though because it makes you play Ibuki that isn’t just Okizeme/Gimmicks.
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Now Juri on the other hand, that is definitely in Ibuki’s favour haha. If I do a meaty, it trades with EX Pinwheel (in Ibuki’s favour too). If I block it, I can Ultra or cr.Strong xx Neckbreaker. Juri can’t really FADC anything, and her counter is a bad use of meter.
Mingo, what is the frame disadvantage after cl.st.Roundhouse xx High Jump, LK Kasumi Gake? I’ve been using this often whenever I have the round lead, and it seems a Reversal EX Pinwheel from Juri can’t punish it.
Perhaps you just need more experience fighting Chuns? It’s not too difficult to safe jump Chun, especially when her EX SBK has slower than average startup, at 6f. EX lightning legs isn’t even invincible. Good Chuns should only be spending meter on this if they are 100% sure it will hit. Chun has a good backdash, but that’s why you option select, and there’s really no reason not to option select since her only reversal requires down charge.
Trolling again?
Kikoken into who the hell cares, just keep blocking and watch for her throw range. She has shit damage output and no vortex. Stop thinking she (Chun) is somehow better than what Ibuki specializes in: okizeme and damage/stun output, and to some extent, being a threat when you’re in your opponent’s face.
What safe overhead setup?
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Do you only play Juris that do wakeup EX pinwheel? If you block Chun’s EX SBK, that’s also an ultra punish. Is that worth mentioning as well? Chun can’t FADC anything either.
Her counter is actually a decent use of meter, because it is incredibily difficult to punish it consistently, making it an invaluable escape tool from vortex. But I haven’t had much experience with good Juris, so maybe it only works on kunai vortex.
Don’t you already know how to test it?
It’s -2 on block, best case scenario (SJC cd as soon as possible). It might be -1, since I tested fairly quickly.
I’m not talking about wake-up EX Pinwheel at all. The threat of Reversals is in the middle of frame-traps.
No. Ibuki’s Okizeme or Kunai Vortex is a gimmick. If you safe-jump Chun-Li, and she blocks it, you get the same pressure she causes.
Being the sort of person who always thinks people go for max damage combo’s, I’m very surprised you say Chun-Li has low damage output. I’m not even talking about Desk combos either. What do you think of Cody’s damage output? haha
The fact is that Chun-Li is a legit character. I don’t consider Ibuki being good because she has ambiguous 50/50s that are a case of block left or right. I would trade Ibuki’s j.Kunai for a Kikouken any day.
Thanks a bunch!
How is it a gimmick?
If you safe jump Chun, she has no reversal. If she safe jumps you, you still have EX dp.
Then what combos are you talking about? Give some examples where Chun can really hurt you that isn’t a jumpin combo.
I think he does good damage off counterhits.
How exactly is Chun a legit character and/or what exactly constitutes a “legit character”?
The question of the day: HOW THE F*CK DO YOU FIGHT CLAW?
I just went crazy losing to three different Claws in a row. Basically:
1 - I don’t know what to do to counter Flying Barcelonas. Dash? no. neutral Jump? Looks like if he goes for air grab, he’ll be better anyway
2 - I don’t know what to do to get close do him. His cr.MP (not certain it’s cr.MP but well…) goes farther than any of my normals, so if he decides to turtle I can’t really get close by staying on the ground. The only choice I could find is to try an ambiguous sj. LK crossup, but I’d have to reach a correct distance first…
So what did I miss there?
Any tips on kicking Juri’s ass would be nice as well. I usually play her by waiting for her jupins (since she doesn’t have that much approach possibilities, right? ) and counter them. But… it looks boring, and patience is not my best quality in this game :-/
- Focus attack.
- Like the rest of the charge character matchups, you have to play the life lead game. If you think he has a safe, spammable button/move then logic says you should do your best to not be put in a situation where it would be useful; eg: stay out of its range. The same logic can be applied to dp FADC ultra characters, in that you should try to avoid situations where they are in range to dp you and they are close enough to FADC it, but that’s beyond your question.
I don’t play Claw, nor do I play many good Claws, but I don’t believe he has a very reliable antiair game. You can try sj.LK gimmicks or jump kunai to mix up your jump timing. As long as you get in once, you should be able to put on some hurt since it’s almost universally agreed that Claw has a very poor reversal game.
With Juri, I’d say it’s best to practice your counter poke game. Slide (properly spaced), cr.MK, cr.HK (risky due to recovery), f+LK, st.LP and st.MP are excellent counter pokes, depending on what button Juri presses. You still have the usual cr.MP/st.MK, but imo they are only average pokes in this matchup; ie: you’ll often trade or get counterhitted more than they actually hit.
Juri doesn’t have the best tools to get in and/or open her opponent up, but really, she doesn’t have to. She can play a decent zoning game with her normals and fuhajins (fireball).
By default, this game requires you to play patient, solid, and boring. The only characters that can ignore that rule are imo:
-can ignore footsies and/or spacing
-has excellent rushdown potential
-can autopilot offense and still do well, to some extent
By my specifications, these characters are characters like Yun, Yang, C.Viper, Makoto, and to some degree, Rufus, Seth, Akuma, and El Fuerte as well.
But focus attack won’t beat his air grab, right? Is there any visual tip to know if he’s gonna hit or grab?
So by your specifications, I should definitely learn to play Makoto or Viper lol
No, but there’s a lot of thought that goes into FBA in order for him to hit you and for you to "punish’ him. For example, if you move out of the way, let’s say with a dash or backdash, it is already difficult to aim his attack correctly, nevermind his grab where he has to press P (and the correct direction) when he’s right next to you. And if you take to the skies, like if you go for air throw or fast j.HP, then that’s even more that the Claw player has to worry about.
tl,dr: Yes he can grab you, but he has to make a really good read. Otherwise, there’s 100 different ways of punishing it, and that’s why you rarely see random FBA’s from good Claw players.
There’s a lot more depth to characters than just “ability to ignore footsies” and “ability to autopilot.” For example, Makoto and C.Viper have vastly different execution requirements. Not only are they both relatively high (though C.Viper probably has even more execution required) but that Makoto is a lot of Hayate cancels and kara karakusa, whereas C.Viper is SJC everything. Another huge difference is Makoto’s ability to play some sort of a solid, though not as scary, midrange game; whereas C.Viper can put random pressure against the entire cast at almost any point on the screen via Seismos.
I suggest everyone to try out every character for a short while. Like maybe going for the C to shining C achievement. If I followed this first, I probably wouldn’t have mained Ibuki. Like you, I really hate playing patient and this solid nonsense. I just want to completely destroy my opponent and win as fast as possible.
Unless you are first learning the game; in that case I would suggest using the most basic/universal character so that you learn fundamentals and mechanics first, characters later.
Well, now that I think about it, there really isn’t a better choice than Ibuki for me. Yun and Yang are far too good to enjoy wins. Rufus has really shit buttons. I can’t deal with Makoto’s crap walkspeed. El Fuerte is way too spacing dependent for me. Akuma doesn’t really have much execution requirements. C.Viper and Seth are both fun to play but I dunno about maining.
Hayate cancelling is literally just pressing K+P at the same time, it’s not as difficult to use as it was in 3rd Strike. The difficulty of Makoto is more to do with the Instant Tsurugi, and when/which one the use. She has hardly any hit-confirms, and the ones she has are pretty much 1-frame. cr.Jab, cr.Short has to be linked to be special cancellable, and [st.MP, st.MP] x [st.HP HC st.MP] are both 1-frame too (although plinkable). Kara cancels are very difficult unless you’re coming from 3rd Strike. Makoto really needs her Kara-Throws, and to a lesser extent, Kara-Karakusa. She also can’t really deal safe chip damage. HK Tsurugi does quite a bit, but you’re putting yourself at risk of a Crumple. All of her Okizeme revolves around Meaties (which don’t work very well in SF4), and ambiguous Tsurugi set-ups.
None of this, 5-frame hit-confirm, make a bowl of cereal before committing to a special, target combo crap that Ibuki allows. Ibuki’s combos are by far the easiest in the game, if you disregard her st.MP and Tsumuji Loop combos (which aren’t required). Her Okizeme is literally brain-dead past practice, although it doesn’t work on a good chunk of the cast. However, what makes Ibuki so fun is the fact that she has the option to use high execution stuff, which feels very rewarding. She’s all about character-specific knowledge, and muscle-memory. Unlike Akuma though, she has to defend like normal.
Makoto feels rewarding every time you win a round, because you’ve just out-smarted the other player. Unless of course you’re abusing her Unblockables, which aren’t easy to do anyway. When if you play a flowchart, winning with Makoto requires a lot of careful thought. She’s not as pick-up as she was in 3rd Strike, but she definitely has one of the most enjoyable gameplans in 2D fighters.
I only gave that as an example of the difference between Makoto and C.Viper. But thanks for really fleshing it out.
I don’t find IA Tsurugi to be that difficult. Though it might just be because I used to sub Super Cammy.
Nah of course you wouldn’t, but it’s no easier than doing Ken’s 24th Trial I think.
I agree with Mingo here, I also tried to play with all the cast and… no character fits me as Ibuki does. There are some characters I like though, and I’d really like to learn how to play with them, such as Abdel, Viper, Makoto and Dudley. I trained a lot with Dudley but I can’t deal with the fact that he has to be less than 5 centimeters away from you to be able to hit you. His game is too much based on reaction to get close, not my deal.
I also tried Yang and Yun. Originally, I liked Yun. Then, I discovered autopilot Yun, I won a few matches by doing continuously the same thing (dive kick [insert bnb here] scissor kicks, copy paste it until you win). Then I discovered that even gdlk Yun players are nothing more than autopilot. So I tried Yang. And I couldn’t find more than 2 useful combos, my matches were still copy-pastas, so I came back to my beloved Ibuki.
Oh, by the way, I’ll upload some videos to get your opinion soon. Yesterday I happened to play RaGe Gagapa (#1 Bison on Xbox Live, > 20 000 BP, best Bison in France, and I’m not sure I’ve seen anybody having his level with this f-ing character) and… of course I lost. But since in this case I played a VERY good Bison, I’d like to know what should I improve in my game to be better against a standard Bison. Stay tuned 
I can’t help you here haha. Whenever I come across a Dictator I switch characters. I don’t think I’ve won this match with Ibuki in months.
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I wanted to switch to Yang because I still play with him all the time in 2nd Impact, but similar to Makoto, it’s really difficult to unlearn the same moves and relearn their new properties. With Yang I can’t help but use cr.Strong. Even looking at the frame-data doesn’t help me at all. It’s a shame 'cause I really like the character, oh well.
Makoto isn’t as hard to adjust with though. You can now do instant Tsurugi, and her Karakusa is crap, apart from that her normals have the same application.
I should just learn Guile so I can piss off every Bipson I come across.
([Sonic boom] - [He jumps/Comes/loses patience and rush] - [Flash kick]) * 5 = congratulations, you won.
Actually, when he does sonic boom, I believe he loses his down charge as well, since you can’t do sonic boom with just :db::df::p:
But Guile’s cr.HP is just as good.