Bringing Knives to a Fistfight! Ibuki Strategy and Match-up Thread

yes she is another shes so annoying with those tk fire kicks i try to cr mk under those but i think she recovers when you do so you dont get a real punish unless im mistaken and there is something i dont know about i know balrog’s lp dash punch is safe but what about that annoying trip i need to teach them no to abuse do i just use standing forward lk to try and beat it or is st. mk supposed to punish it

Both f+LK and st.MK are good options imo. But then again, a good Boxer is only going to use it at max range, where the pushback will pretty much keep it safe. You can also use FA if you are really reading them.

So I was playing against a random Oni and he did a point blank fireball Ultra out of desperation. I just did a reaction U2 cause I’d figure it would just go through the fireball like it does with every other one but it actually got her hit with the full animation.

Oni’s U1 has a much longer start-up. You pretty much dashed into the hit.

last rog i played tore me a new asshole… like badly. but i was just outclassed. his name was future and he took second at that tournament behind buktooth (buk tore him up)

imho the better player wins in this match… i havent had any particular problems with rog other than them being better than me… when im better i always win.
good rogs wont spam cr.hk to the point where its easily yomied so its not something i generally think about. but as far as beating it… dont even try… the best options are jump over it or focus crumple it. jumping over it isnt generally possible against good rogs, focusing it can be but is still kind of risky. best defense is to avoid its space… easy to do cause if rog wants to be offensive with it he has to walk forward and lose his charge. losing charge isnt good cause it takes away from rogs best offense which is random lp dashes.

deal with random lp dashes by trying to yomi them with neutral jump (outside of headbutt range!) and focus and cr.mk. dont bother with trying to u1 them cause good rogs wont space them that badly.

^^thats how to deal with him on the ground… of course just AA any jumps with B+mp if you’ve got them scouted. use slide like an any other matchup unless the rog is super turtle status.

once you knock him down, vortexing him can be tricky cause of ex dash and TAP. deal with tap by doing emptyjump cr.lpxn till they hit (they will beat it, but they will wiff at first cause of invincibility… this is what i saw buk do to future when future tried to tap out) deal with ex dash by empty jump throw??? dont know, not many rogs use this against me that much… generally i just let them out, less meter for them, knocking rog down isnt that hard so usually i will win via meter management.

i thimnk the setup for empty jump cr.lpxn and empty jump throw that buk was using was to REGULAR jump with kunais, and REGULAR jump with emptyjump after breaker. this is i think key. superjump doesnt lend itself to ambiguity, and it always lands on the other side if not doing kunai, whereas you have to land infront of rog in order to in order to punish TAP.

well, its been like 2 months since i played those games, so the setups might not be exactly like that, and since ae is out it might be different… but try them out in training mode and see if you can make them work with a different timing or something. once rog is vortexable, he becomes much easier.

also how many of you guys still use superjump kunais instead of regular jump ones? just asking but it seems like as if regular jump ones my be alot more ambiguous.

-dime

Online I always use a High Jump, I have issues timing it the normal one with lag.

I’m pretty sure TAP will get stuffed if the Kunai hits meaty. Anyway you can force Rog to land on the same side after a j.LK (or whatever to your fancy), so if they try to EX [whatever] out of it you can punish… Or they spend 3-whole meters getting out of your Vortex.

I wouldn’t advise doing an empty throw for a few reasons ->

  • If he’s mashing cr.LP (which a great deal of them do) you’ll get hit by a combo.
  • You’ll lose to any version of the headbutt, which I’m sure a Rog will do if you jump-over them, negating their charge.
  • As you’ve said, it’s good to get him to spend his meter.

That’s one of the reasons I think why this match-up is so fair, as it was in Super. There’s no way he can store meter unless he’s simply rushing your down (to the point where you’re not equal in skill).

Finally, have you seen Iyo or Momochi play? Command Dash through the character, then do the Vortex. Charge characters had better not do anything on their wake-up, not even Dee Jay.

i have no idea what to say to any of that (besides the charge buster that you mention)… rogs mashing cr.lp on a vortex wakeup? um i dont think ive ever encountered that offline… it wouldnt work… if i threw a kunai theyd get hit everytime… if i didnt they arent going to be able to react in time… most players would just tech/crouchtech on reaction. the biggest reason not to do this is cause some dipshit rogs out there like to try and headbutt through an anticipated kunai…, and it will actually beat an empty jump throw as well.

and NO meaty kunais dont stuff taps… its just that your playing online so people cant time the tap release well in laggy conditions since it isnt a “mashable” move.

…dont know about that other stuff like j.lk stuffing armor dash uppercut… i know its possible, but only if doing them with safejump timing, and then its not like they beat armore dash its just that after the absorb ibuki will land and the uppercut will wiff.

but yeah, rog is a fair match to me if for no other reason than he doesnt have HIGHLY spammable normal pokes in it. all he has is cr.hk and its to risky to get frisky.

-dime

Definitely a nono. Good Boxers are difficult to knockdown, and they’ll take any chance you give them to escape. Simply letting Boxer escape your okizeme is not good. If you can’t vortex because Boxer has meter, then mix in safe jumps. Specifically safe jumps that will punish a reversal attempt, not just safe jumps where you block an EX dash punch (which you can’t quite punish). Super Ibuki had the neckbreaker , whiff st.MK , j.HP option select neckbreaker safe jump setup. I’m sure AE Ibuki has something similar.

As for TAP, I almost never have a problem with it, online or offline. I don’t ever recall having to use safe jump instead of kunai vortex to shut that option down.

Via meter management? What do you mean?

This matchup is definitely Boxer favored in that you have to do quite some work to open Boxer up and knock him down. With strong normals, safe dash punch pressure, and a tricky wakeup options, I dunno how you think this matchup is even.

When I win almost 2:3 with the best Boxer players in the UK, when I get absolutely destroyed if they use another character like Ken (1:10).

yeah, like i said… i never really had that big of a problem with boxers… if your footsies are up to the task hes the least scary of the “original” characters. dont know what more to say, chun,bison,ken a good ryu that knows cr.mk is broken (in super) give me WAAAAAY more problems than boxer.

lp dash is beaten cr.mk wiffs, he cant jump from that perfect range cause B+mp shuts it down, so he has to jump from farther… that alone can push alot of boxers back since he has no crossup to have to worry about in footsies range… unlike ibuki who can get neutral game crossups all day (not necessarily on rog… but yeah).

basically boxer seems easier to contain. his super turtling can be a pain… but thats when kunais and tsumuji blocks/ come in… they give boxer incentive to dash punch/ move forward even if hes only down a bit.

now an aggressive footsies based boxer… can be halted pretty well with focus in my experience… only worry is tap… but meh.

im not saying its easy nor that i pwn every boxer i play against, just that i see myself having to deal with less bullshit in this matchup than alot of others… even his throw game/frame trap game is kinda weaksauce… his throw is meh. his st.hk frame trap hurts… but it isnt knocking anyone down or setting up for more damage.

his overheads are all seeable if your looking for them. so yeah, he who has the better footsies/neutral gameplan wins it imho. seeing buktooth destroy both keno and future later on shows that the MU isnt that bad as well.

-dime

The way I see it, Ibuki has very strong punishes (with no meter), and her defense against Boxer is the same as everyone else. Not to mention Boxer can never save meter in this match-up.

Not sure what this means.

I’d much rather fight a cr.MK spamming shoto than Boxer. At least you can counterpoke that shit. With Boxer, either you stay the hell out of his range or you make a read with FA.

Yes we know Boxer’s frame traps aren’t the best, and we know he can’t crossup, and yes we know his overhead is kind of slow and punishable. It’s not Boxer’s offensive game that’s the problem. It’s how the hell do you get in on him while he turtles and spams lp dash punch and long range normals.

Kind of a moot point since about the only thing you’ll be using your “strong punishes” for are whiffed/blocked headbutts, which are rare enough already.
And like I said, Boxer doesn’t need to spend meter, so saving it up for getting out of vortex cards isn’t a problem for him.

neckbreaker>whiff st mp>j mk is a safejump against both yun and yang.Yang can escape ibuki’s vortex with ex kaihou(his ex command dash) but can be punished with nb on reaction

I’m not just talking about st.MP. Ibuki has a very strong anti-air, she can punish TAP and his overhead with U1, and just off of a throw she can set-up a 50/50 that may take almost 40% stamina. I just don’t understand what his advantage is supposed to be, he has to rely on tick-throws and frame-traps in order to get any damage.

What is TAP?

Turn around punch.

  1. Why would Boxer need to do TAP except maybe on wakeup? Many players with good reactions can already just simply throw him out of it.
  2. Again, why would Boxer need to use his slow overhead that is punishable on block? Not many good Boxers will use this, and if they do, it’ll be once in a blue moon.
  3. How are you getting a throw off in the first place and what is this 50/50 you speak of that does 400dmg?
  4. His advantage is turtling and dealing relatively safe chip damage. He doesn’t have to take the offensive for damage. He only has to punish your attempts of getting in, all the while turtling till the timer runs out.

i meant wiffing cr.mk beats his lp dashes. ie you think he might dash punch? wiff a cr.mk… they like to run into that move.

to answer your other questions, generally i will just kunai spam a faggot downbacker… LOL then i bait ex rushpunches that beat kunais by doing jumpback wiff fierce… if he approaches after my jumpback… he just lost charge, if not and he likes to oh say, block them or FA them, i deal with him doing either one by advancing on him. im also not afraid to be hit by a dash punch or 3 in any given round. those are “gimmes” in my mind, if i can make it out of the round without getting hit by 2-3 random dash punches, great, if not… oh well. so basically i just try to push his ass back into the corner by threatening with proper B+mp spacing to cut off his jumping, and then all i have to worry about is dashes and cr.hk… if hes a turtle i’ll rarely be in cr.hk range without frame advantage cause there is no reason to be there. he wont want to do many dashes cause im wiffing cr.mk and neutral jumps all day to keep him honest… ill neutral jump 4 times in a row or more sometimes… who cares… worse that can happen is i get air to air’d with like j.hp. but if he wiffs a dash punch under my neutral jump its free combo into knockdown funtimes. i also slide alot if he doesnt know what hes doing with his spacing… basically i yomi down his forward walks with slide if hes an aggressive footsie player. if hes not and just D/B then i can just space my slide perfectly since he isnt moving. if he likes to move backwards to charge dash instead of D/B then i walk him into the corner while doing my neutral jump shizzle and whatnot…

i also do ALOT of cr.lp and st.lp wiff fakes, to setup slide/FA dash forward neutral game mixups and i like to use that air tc that starts with fierce as well.

basic footsies… just stay out of cr.hk range and your golden for the most part. being in socal though… i guess i just kind of know how to play/yomi boxers since we had about 20 of them back when i played chun (rog army ie gootecks,keno,combofiend and there cohorts) funnily enough chun supposedly beats rog, but i find the match easier with ibuki cause i dont have to worry about random jumps nearly as much since chuns AA’s are hard to use and require perfect spacing/timing and reactions as well as being able to mix them up… ibuki i have an all day braindead AA, so 80% of my concentration can be on ground game.

anyways, thats what i do… it works for me.

one “LITTLE” trick i like to do against rogs is show focus charge at perfect dash punch range (only when they have charge) and then cancel it into a backdash if no dash came. then i’ll do it again at the same range a few seconds later. then ill walk up to that same range and neutral jump the PREDICTABLE ass breaker they throw out cause they think im going to do another FA. most of the time i’ll only do one FA… its usually enough to get a desperate rog into thinking hes got some yomi and can get some quick damage… ive been using that bait forever… dime approved… but sometimes they guess right and break me or they get wise to my shenanigans… which just means that they arent going to throw so many predictable dash punches. once ive got a rog afraid of throwing out random punches… the game is usually in the bag. in fact that little mini game is where the game is won at high level imho… not that im particularly high level, just saying.

tl;dr up them footsies and baits, rog isnt that scary for ibuki on the ground.

-dime

This might be why we disagree. I turtle when I’m playing a Boxer unless I’m convinced their defense isn’t very good. ~400dmg is an estimate, but I’m talking about the Vortex leading into TC4. It’s the Boxer who tries to get in on me. Maybe they’re overly cautious because they don’t see many Ibuki players do this, but the second you get a LK Tsumuji or something and have the life lead, it turns into a very entertaining waiting game. Show the Boxer that you can react to a dash-punch with Raida, and you can crouch-block all day.

He simply can’t do much in the corner except frame-traps and tick-throws. They’re suppose to think that the overhead will get punished. By the way, many Boxers will do TAP because it’s a focus breaker, and sets up a cr.LP string.

If they’re not any good keep doing st.MK xx Special on the other side of the screen. If they don’t take the bait, you’ve got the data you need.

Clakey D’s Ibuki is so hype.

-Dammit_rab

yeah, it goes without saying that you should take your offense kind of slow against any decent turtly rog… i completely agree with you izuna. i’m in no hurry to get in against rog. that will just get ibuki killed quickly.

then again i take my offense slow against most characters cause there footsies>ibukis and if you cant straight up dominate a footsie war then you cant just run in all gung ho.

-dime