if hunter had done a good job convincing me of the merit of his position, then I would have called it a day. but he didn’t, so I didn’t. That’s how I work… deal with it. I’m not above admitting I was off base but in this case, I still think I’m right.
here’s the upshot of what I was saying.
hunter said Cody can punish with c.mk, which is easy and does about 70 damage. however, its disadvantage on hit and Cody can’t press a button afterwards that doesn’t lose to mashed normal throw. I said Cody can punish with f+mp (which is more difficult), which does decent damage on its own and can start a huge combo so instead of a piddly 70 damage punish, Cody can hammer you with a 200+ damage combo (also does lots of stun) and even if the f+mp is blocked, he has frame advantage and now has a mixup opportunity
hunter said Abel can roll through rocks. I said Cody can bait the roll by starting to throw a rock, charge rock, and punish the recovery of your roll with that rock you just tried rolling through. we did admittedly get off topic here, talking about how you can combo out of rocks. but again, Cody can make a roll hurt big time. I don’t think he grasped what I was saying
he introduced a ridiculous counter argument about how he would mash ultra if I tried punishing a roll with a rock - except you can’t punish a roll with rock on reaction, and if Abel has ultra you don’t throw rocks
I get what you’re saying, but the point I was trying to make was that you look dumb trying to have the last word, no matter the cost. I get you have a valid, maybe even stronger argument, but you just look absurd trying to edge shit at the end.
This is the only thing I’m going to respond to, because it’s the only meaningful topic worth discussing.
Your explanation here clarifies why you don’t understand my stance on c.MK. Maybe it’s my fault for not being specific, but I’m talking about Rolls used to close distance, not Rolls that end in your face. If Abel is Rolling into that distance, then Cody should really be punishing with Throw, since you don’t have to worry about timing your punish with the recovery of the Roll. I didn’t think to specifiy that, because it isn’t matchup specific, that’s just general anti-Abel.
Any distance where you can’t get your free Throw, that’s the distance I’m talking about punishing with c.MK, and at those distances, after a c.MK, Abel won’t be in regular Throw range, which brings me back to what I said in one of the first responses I made about Cody’s Jabs and Shorts being faster then Abels being significant.
hey you want to step in and step up, go for it. any time. if people actually debated things properly, I’d be more restrained. but this is SRK, after all… my expectations are just too high
Anyways I want to talk about the mirror match as much as people hate it…specifically I am wondering how most people escape f.mk pressure. I find a lot of Abels jab jab f.mk - jab f.mk in a random pattern sticking in a tick throw here and there. I find myself getting trapped in that for a bit longer than I’d like. I am content to sit and block but obvs I can’t sit there and tech because of the command grab, rolling seems bad because of the on reaction grab.
Neutral jumping after a blocked f.mk seems to be the option I use most because if they go for a TT I can do a big punish and if they jab I feel I’m less on the defensive when I land but what do most other people tend to do.
Ibuki zoning Abel? You should be thrilled if she’s just using kunai’s, she’s saving you the trouble of pushing her into the corner.
Any Ibuki player worth their salt should be in your ass, using that 3 frame jab to full effect. U2 does nothing against her pressure game, you can’t use it against jump-ins due to air chains, and EX kunai counters any random attempts to use it.
Fighting Ibuki, to me, feels a lot like fighting Akuma, minus the teleport. Lots of patience, since you absolutely don’t want to get knocked down. Without knockdowns, she doesn’t really have anything scary to keep you from holding down back. You only need 3 solid hits to win a round, and i’d rather have U1 to make the most of the few chances I get.
Yeah, Ibuki is like Akuma… without the footsies and zoning game… I pretty much agree with what Ghostmaker said. Ibuki will only zone you out if she has a big life lead advantage. Other than that, Ibuki wants to be in your face cause generally, she has a hard time getting in on people. She doesn’t have a reliable way to get in.
I don’t like U2 against Ibuki either. Unreliable in that matchup compared to U1. Actually, probably one of the few matchups where U1 is clear cut.
Just picked up Abel and I think he’s pretty solid. I think online play is garbage for him though. Especially if you late tech.
I think the match up for Ibuki is you just need to stay back and be really patient until she fucks up and lets you in footsie range. After you get in, she guesses wrong twice the match is already way in your favor. I try not to roll at ALL in this matchup, cause if she gets Abel on his back it’s 50/50s all day.
What do people do on her wakeup? Having a command throw AND a DP is retarded.
U1 all the way. She has multiple options to deal with armor(raida, neckbreaker, aforementioned air target combos…). She has crap recovery on majority of her moves so 1+7 is not really necessary.
Once you get U2 stocked, a lot of Vipers natural rush down/mix up game goes down the toilet - it’s similar to the way U2 changes the Cammy fight in that respect - it forces her to stop pressing buttons and back off, which I see as a big deal against an aggressive Viper. On the other hand, you can’t count out the threat of big damage either, which U1 gives - and any random cr.hp you manage to land will hurt a lot…
I lost the Viper fight pretty consistently in SF4, so I’m seeing U2 as a breath of fresh air, which naturally puts Viper on the back foot while you run some Abel shit
Yeah you guys basically agreed with what I was thinking, it doesn’t really shut down her mix up, f.mk isn’t hard to hit in this match up and she can escape U2 easily.
As for Viper I prefer U1 she is one of the few characters were j.mk cr.hp is very viable and she has poor health. I can see why you would use U2 but I don’t think her pressure is THAT difficult to deal with.
I would start off with U1 and switch to U2 if the Viper was VERY aggressive and I wasn’t coping with her pressure.
I haven’t played the Viper matchup yet in SSF4 but this vid leads me to think that U2 just ain’t that good an idea.
[media=youtube]D73aQ8uOYQw[/media]
Viper has a lot of options for getting around it. She can still come Abel safely from the air and use the different strengths of burning kicks to either move behind Breathless, or possibly break its armor by canceling j.rh into short air BK
so i met a good cody(well to me at least, either that or i just wasnt playing well) in ranked, he perfected me first round and dominated the next to win and i immediately added him afterwards, hoping to play a few sets in endless (its so rare to find decent codys), i sent a blank request(because i didnt have my keyboard plugged in) and obviously dude didnt accept it… so i kept playin ranked and then met the same guy but this time i beat him, close match though. Then he sent me a message asking whether that last request i sent was a mistake, so i overcame my laziness and plugged in and replied and he accepted and we fought for ten sets. We went 5-5 before i got to go, and in his ggs message he asked “you watchin world cup?”… lol so true.
anyway the point is, i think i learned a little bit more about this matchup and i will upload those sets for criticism on where i can improve etc… surprisingly i prefer U2 in this matchup(before i fought this guy i usually pick U1 against cody), maybe because U2 can deal with his jumping combos(which hurts like a motha)… though one thing i realized, the cody player isnt so good at anti airing, unless its with that ex turn punch thing, ive fought cody who applied his AA normals better.
I was playing wolfkrone a bit , and I was U2ing crossup burning kick as it was coming down and preventing it actually crossing me up. But ehh I dunno if its something you want to trust in too much though.
Otherwise U2 is as you said worthless in that matchup.
U2 rapes alot of matchups hard. U2 vs Viper kills some of her options, I’ve played around with it and it kills some of her big options on REACTION, but U1 is still better imo.
Fwd.mk > Viper for reals, she can’t get hit by it or she loses. Fwd.mk on block is a huge pain on her too because of your ability to kill all her escape options with block > fwd.mk, kills reversals and backdash. I used to be completely clueless in this match-up but if you know how to block its a fucking breeze.
I don’t know about you guys, but i think Abel rapes most of the cast. Fwd.mk delayed back throw OS EX FS fucks Ryu for free. Was playing Valle some casuals at NCR and it really proved the usefulness of this OS, Ryu can’t do shit. If he blocks you throw, he throws you tech, he reversals you block, he backdashes you THROW him out of it, he jumps back or neutral you EX FS him. People should actually start using this OS.
thanks strider for the info… i never really apply any OS in my game, wanted too but didnt really know much… by OS ex FS, dya mean ex FS on reaction? thats how i see it though.